Speaking for a moment as a Democratic partisan, I can't say that I'd be thrilled with the selection of Evan Bayh as Barack Obama's VP nominee. But this has more to do with personality factors -- my feeling that Bayh is a little dull and drab, and that Obama may underestimate the importance of maintaining high levels of excitement among the Democratic base -- than anything having to do with his voting record.
Bayh gets a bad rap in the liberal blogopshere because he is perceived as a centrist. There is a grain of truth in that; he certainly isn't Bernie Sanders. But he also isn't from Vermont. He's from Indiana -- and I would argue that Bayh is about as liberal a senator as Indiana is likely to elect.
The chart below compares two things. Along the left-right axis is the liberalness each state's electorate, as determined by how voters identified themselves in 2004 exit polling. Along the vertical axis is the liberalness of each of the 100 sitting senators, as determined by averaging their VoteView ordinal ranking from the 108th, 109th and 110th Congresses. Democrats, naturally, are demarcated in blue, Republicans in red, and independents in green.
Unsurprisingly, there is a rather strong relationship between the liberalness of a state and the liberalness of its senators, whether or not one separates the senators by party (the red and blue trendlines) or groups them all together (the black trendline).
By either measure, Bayh is considerably more liberal than you would expect of a Democrat from Indiana. The most conservative states to presently have elected Democratic senators are Indiana, Nebraska, and Arkansas (which has two Democrats). Bayh is notably more liberal than either Nebraska's Ben Nelson, or Arkansas' Mark Pryor and Blanche Lincoln. The next-most conservative states with Democratic senators are Louisiana and South Dakota; Bayh is more liberal than Tim Johnson or Mary Landrieu. Put differently, there is no senator more liberal than Bayh in any state more conservative than Indiana.
We can think about this a bit more scientifically by comparing a senator's VoteView ranking -- lower rankings indicate more liberal voting records -- with that expected of a typical senator from that state, regardless of his or her party. This is represented by the black regression line in the chart above. We would ordinarily expect a senator from Indiana to have a VoteView ranking of 73.0 -- squarely in the middle of the Republican party. Bayh's ranking, instead, is a 33.3 -- only slightly more conservative than an average Democratic senator. Relative to his state, Bayh is the third most liberal senator, trailing only Tom Harkin and Sherrod Brown:Most Liberal Senators Relative to State
If we look at the senators relative to both their states and their party -- these are the red and blue regression lines -- Bayh is in a tie with Sheldon Whitehouse as the 5th most liberal Democrat.
___ Voteview Ranking (108th-110th)
Senator State Expected Actual Delta
--------------------------------------------------
Harkin D-IA 53.9 6.3 -47.5
Brown D-OH 50.5 8.0 -42.5
Bayh D-IN 73.0 33.3 -39.8
Feingold D-WI 45.0 6.5 -38.5
Lincoln D-AR 74.4 41.5 -32.9
Most Conservative Senators Relative to State
___ Voteview Ranking (108th-110th)
Senator State Expected Actual Delta
--------------------------------------------------
Gregg R-NH 42.4 89.0 +48.9
Allard R-CO 47.5 94.0 +47.0
Sununu R-NH 40.0 86.8 +46.7
Kyl R-AZ 57.2 99.7 +42.4
Ensign R-NV 52.5 93.2 +40.6 Most Liberal Senators Relative to State and Party
There will undoubtedly be a myriad of objections to this methodology, but the point is that governance does not occur in a vacuum: a senator has a goal of championing legislation in line with his ideology, but he also has a goal of getting re-elected. Indeed, there is some evidence that Bayh has become more liberal. Here is Bayh's VoteView ranking in each of the last four Congresses -- remember that lower scores indicate a more liberal voting record.
Democrats___ Voteview Ranking (108th-110th)
Senator State Expected Actual Delta
--------------------------------------------------
Harkin D-IA 32.7 6.3 -26.4
Brown D-OH 31.0 8.0 -23.0
Feingold D-WI 28.2 6.5 -21.7
Boxer D-CA 19.9 3.7 -16.2
Whitehouse D-RI 13.0 4.0 -9.0
Bayh D-RI 42.3 33.3 -9.0
Republicans___ Voteview Ranking (108th-110th)
Senator State Expected Actual Delta
--------------------------------------------------
Lugar R-IN 80.1 56.3 -23.7
Bennett R-UT 83.6 66.2 -17.4
Warner R-VA 75.8 58.7 -17.1
Specter R-PA 68.0 52.3 -15.7
Voinovich R-OH 72.2 57.0 -15.2
Most Conservative Senators Relative to State and Party
Democrats___ Voteview Ranking (108th-110th)
Senator State Expected Actual Delta
--------------------------------------------------
Klobuchar D-MN 24.2 38.5 +14.3
Carper D-DE 26.7 40.7 +14.0
Kerry D-MA 7.0 20.5 +13.5
Tester D-MT 33.6 47.0 +13.4
Baucus D-MT 33.6 46.0 +12.4
Republicans___ Voteview Ranking (108th-110th)
Senator State Expected Actual Delta
--------------------------------------------------
Kyl R-AZ 74.6 99.7 +25.1
Allard R-CO 71.0 94.0 +23.0
McCain R-AZ 74.6 96.8 +22.3
DeMint R-SC 77.6 99.0 +21.4
Gregg R-NH 68.6 89.0 +20.4
Bayh became somewhat liberal between the 108th and 109th Congresses. What happened between the 108th and 109th Congresses? Bayh won re-election by a landslide margin, and perhaps recognized that he had a little bit more wiggle room to move from the right edge of the Democratic Party more toward the Party's mainstream. The only reason this might occur, I would argue, is that Bayh is at heart a fairly progressive senator.
___ VoteView Ranking
Congress All Sens Dems Only
107th 43/102 42/50
108th 42/100 41/47
109th 28/101 27/45
110th 30/101 29/49
One needs to remember that Evan's father, Birch Bayh, had quite a strong progressive track record, being the principal architect and sponsor of both the 26th Amendment, which lowered the voting age to 18, and the Equal Rights Amendment. Bayh eventually lost to Dan Quayle in the Republican landslide year of 1980 as the country passed into the present, highly partisan era, as Quayle successfully attacked Bayh on his liberal voting record.
As a candidate for national office, free from the constraints of electoral politics in a red state like Indiana, Bayh might surprise both Democrats and Republicans with how liberal he turns out to be. Bayh's positioning in the Senate has not been notably different from either Al Gore or John Edwards, who are two of the left's heroes. The downside to Democrats? Because Bayh is far more liberal than you'd expect of a typical senator from Indiana, this would be one of the most damaging Senate seats for them to lose.
8.05.2008
Evan Bayh: Latent Liberal?
by Nate Silver @ 1:31 AM...see also ideology, indiana, meta, vice president
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71 comments
What I find personally fascinating is the fact that Democrats serve in all but the most-right states, but Republicans seem lucky to represent even a moderate state. Yet another sign of the times, maybe?
What do you think of Bayh's impact on the electoral math?
Needed to win = 270
Kerry states plus Iowa = 259
Indiana = 11
259 + 11 = 270
Of course it's too early to tell, but Indiana seems close enough to flip and Bayh seems popular enough to flip it.
???
Could you fully label that graph of Senators views compared with their state to include all senator's name
no way mccain is that conservative..
According the McCains voting record the last two years he is indeed "that conservative".
I'd be interested in seeing the rest of the list of contrasts between state and senator levels of liberalism. For example, what about the other end of the list, the democrats that are unexpectedly conservative for the states they're elected from? Fascinating analysis though, this kind of stuff is the reason I read your site daily.
McCain only gets ranked as being so "conservative" because Nate cherry picked the Congressional sessions for which he voted most conservatively. If you were to go back just one more session to the 107th Congress his "ranking", which varies from 0.0 for most liberal to 100.0 for most conservative, suddenly plummets to 57.0.
A much more accurate representation of McCain's record from the same source (VoteView) is available here: http://voteview.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/who-is-more-liberal-senator-obama-or-senator-clinton/. Summary: "Combining the two Chambers shows even more clearly the fact that Senators Clinton and Obama are essentially identical ideologically with a substantial number of Democrats to their left. Senator McCain is in the left wing of the Republican Party and President Bush is on the conservative edge of his Party.".
But that wouldn't coincide very well with the Democratic partisan line that McCain is just going to be "Bush's third term".
David-- Is it really cherry picking to pick the three most recent years? It's not like he averaged together only the years divisible by 3. Why do you think McCain switched and started voting so conservatively en masse? Was it his "maverick streak" shining through as always?
I agree with Joe, adding the rest of the Senators names would be fantastic. (How about Joe Lieberman being the outlier, again?!) I'm also curious of what is the relative tolerance of states, if theres some way of calculating that: are conservative states more tolerant of liberal Senators than liberal states of conservative senators?
Daniel,
I actually don't think being a regional party is necessarily a weakness for Republicans. It's the antithesis of the fifty state strategy, and may make sense from a legislative standpoint. If you invest your money in a fewer number of candidates whom all are willing to toe the party line, it may be more effective than investing money in Mississippi Democrats, who will, given their constituencies, consistently break with the party line. I'm open to debate on this issue and would love to hear responses.
axero09, McCain has voted with Bush 100% of the time this year and 95% last year. He has flip-flopped rightward on almost every major issue in the last 8 years. You won't hear that from the corporate media because, as his admirer Chris Matthews admitted, they are his base.
TPM: "Bayh As Veep? But He Co-Chaired Neocon Committee For The Liberation Of Iraq With McCain!"
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/bayh_as_veep_he_cochaired_wing.php
Selecting this pro-war anti-change DLC centrist as his #1 will be a brilliant way for Obama to continue showing Americans how weak and unprincipled he is. He might as well throw out that line about judgment on Iraq because people will just look at Bayh's war-mongering ways and laugh.
I also recall Bayh being one of Clinton's most aggressive surrogates, attacking Obama's capacity to lead.
The warhawk Evan Bland would make for an uninspiring and uninspired choice as Obama's VP.
If Obama wants to pick a Democrat who is moderate and hails from a red state that could flip in this election cycle, he really should be thinking about Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer, who has a certain record of being right on the issues.
Bayh is a good choice. Only problem is he is somewhat "meat-and-potatoes" and could make Obama appear to be playing it safe too much. This is why I prefer Kathleen Sebelius. She has the same "red state/moderate street cred" as Bayh, in addition to being a woman with executive experience. Obelius fo the win!
This is very "now you see it, now you don't". The fact that Bayh is liberal for an Indiana senator ignores the fact that Obama can pick a VP from any state and, if say, Obama wanted a liberal number 2 he could have one.
Secondly, using exit poll data from presidential elections skews Indiana, which is more liberal in its state politics (and Indiana's Democrats - including Bayh - often run to the right of the GOP on issues like taxes).
Thirdly, if Bayh was as liberal as he could be in Indiana, don't you think he would have faced greater difficulties in his most recent elections?
1992 Gubernatorial election
Bayh: 62%
Pearson: 37%
1998 Senate race
Bayh: 64%
Helmke: 35%
2004 Senate race
Bayh: 62%
Scott: 37%
Does Indiana elect right-wing senators? Well, Birch Bayh represented Indiana from 1963-1981. Vance Hartke precended Dick Lugar (who is liberal enough to be touted as a potential Obama secretary of state) from 1959-1977.
I managed to dig up a 1979 article that looked at their voting record on a range of issues (positive scores indicated a more left-leaning position - this is on page 217 of ).
Civil Liberties (90th, 91st, 92nd congresses)
McGovern: 1.1; 1.56; 1.01
Bayh: .44; .68; 1.08
Hartke: .97; -.2; 1.01
Southern Dems: -1.41; -.02; -1.15
Nonsouth Dems: .7; .52; .73
International involvement
McGovern: .68; .68; n/a
Bayh: .85; .60; .47
Hartke: .85; -.28; n/a
Southern Dems: -1.13; -1.61; -.91
Nonsouth Dems: .58; .52; .33
Social welfare
McGovern: .5; 1.11; n/a
Bayh: .74; .91; 1.06
Hartke: .82; .72; 1.06
Southern Dems: -1.14; -1.21; -.88
Nonsouth Dems: .46 .47 .78
Vietnam policy
McGovern: 1.35; 1.35; 1.45
Bayh: .46; 1.21; 1.45
Hartke: .53; 1.35; 1.33
Southern Dems: -1.08; -.99; -.43
Nonsouth Dems: .65 .89 .77
Moreover the article puts forth a case that Bayh and Hartke's increasing moderation had more to do with their ambitions of senate and/or presidential leadership positions. Bayh and Hartke were consistently within the mainstream of the Democratic party, and continued to be re-elected.
Picking Bayh would be a bold move to the centre - something the dailykos folks can't stand, because Obama was supposed to be their guy.
Sorry the article is Office Ambitions and Voting Behavior in the US Senate: A Longitudinal Study, published in American Politics Quarterly vol. 7 No. 2 April 1979, pp. 198-224
The VP's politics are exaggerated in importance.
Bush was so ill-equipped for the presidency, it makes sense he had a dominant VP like Cheney. Though Obama has implied the VP will be a consiglieri for him, it's more realistic he'd use the Lincoln model of using his entire cabinet as a team of advisors. I don't see the VP returning to its bucket of spit past but I don't see it as bizarro Cheney either. I expect Obama will surround himself with a mix of wise people like Bill Bradley, Sam Nunn, Robert Reich, Joe Biden, Chuck Hagel. And in any true crisis, I doubt he'd hesitate to seek Gore or Bill Clinton or Bush 41 or Carter's opinions. The VP, whoever he or she is, will probably just be another opinion in the mix.
If the VP had to become president, what VP would ever be so blind as to replace their predecessor's politics with their own. It would be such an assault at the very core of the democracy to do so and thus extremely unpatriotic. I'm not even afraid of Chuck Hagel as VP. As long as the VP is intelligent, principled and has good judgment, it's fine.
Sebelius, Reed or Biden would give me the most peace of mind. And I think they're helpful in the election as well.
If liberals don't like Evan Bayh, they need to get over themselves.
After eight years of extreme right wing governance and faced with another four, we can't afford purity tests. We need to accept that we won't get all of our agenda. We will need to make compromises with the Republicans.
David,
108: 96.5, 109: 100.0, 110: 94.0. There's no way that you can say with a straight face that McCain is on the left wing of the Republican Party. Unless 90% of the Republican party is considered to be in the left wing.
If you want to make the argument that McCain used to be moderate, most here would agree with you. But that's not what he's become.
I actually don't think being a regional party is necessarily a weakness for Republicans. It's the antithesis of the fifty state strategy, and may make sense from a legislative standpoint. If you invest your money in a fewer number of candidates whom all are willing to toe the party line, it may be more effective than investing money in Mississippi Democrats, who will, given their constituencies, consistently break with the party line. I'm open to debate on this issue and would love to hear responses.
I don't think that is a strategy for a party's long term success. The first problem is that you don't have a backup plan. Presumably your region is big enough that you can get a majority of congress and the electoral college. But what happens when something like the Northern Virginia suburban expansion occurs. All of a sudden you are a minority party and you have no feasible way back into power.
I'd also point out the median voter problem. The party appeals to the swing voter the most will ultimately win the election. I know there is a great deal made about turning out your own side and its importance in 2004. I disagree. I think the median voter was on the Repub's side because Sept 11 was a recent memory. They did all they could to turn that voter off but still managed to win.
The problem with a regional and specialized party is you lose the moderates. Without the Bayhs of the world, you let your own leaders end up in an echo chamber. You let them drift farther to the extremes. You end up with a whole room full of Ralph Naders, more concerned with purity than actual governance.
Somebody has got to pay attention to moderates.
Birchbeer,
Your argument that VP's-by-assassination have no leeway to implement their own policies is flawed for a number of reasons. The notion that the VP's views are unimportant is probably the biggest problem, since the VP is the likely successor of Obama as nominee (if Obama wins the presidency), and since 9 out of 43 presidents (Harrison, Taylor, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Harding, Roosevelt, Kennedy and Nixon) have failed to serve out their full term.
First-off, liberals are already hoping that Obama will be more liberal than he claims, since he has moved to the center on every major issue in this election cycle (from abortion to Iraq to offshore drilling). Moreover, Obama has vague and conflicting rhetoric, which Bayh could use. For instance, Obama talks a lot about bipartisanship, which Bayh could use to fulfill his own ideological (and political) goals.
Secondly, many issues in politics are unpredictable. For instance, an event like 9/11, or some other major shift in which issues people deemed important would give the VP a new slate.
What does the historical record suggest? In some cases, you are right, VP's stuck to the policies of their predecessors' PUBLIC PRONOUNCEMENTS (though not necessarily what they would have done). Coolidge, Ford, LBJ and Truman, for instance, fit this mould (though Truman had been excluded from high-level briefings, and so his interpretation of FDR's intent was muddy at times).
On the other hand, many have decidedly NOT fit the mould of their predecessors. Teddy Roosevelt was a reforming progressive crusader - quite the opposite of McKinley. Chester Arthur was a reformer, while Garfield was corrupt and scandal-ridden. Andrew Johnson appeased the south in reconstruction, and allowed de facto inequality to remain - whereas Lincoln would not have. Millard Fillmore was a compromisers in the slavery debate, while Zachary Taylor was decidedly not (he opposed expansion of slavery).
I wouldn't be too thrilled with Bayh, but mostly that's because he's quite young. Together on the stage they both look like two guys from "The Bachelors" rather than the President and Vice President of the U.S.
Sebelius would be a better choice from that perspective, but Bayh is probably better on the stump.
BTW: Rasmussen's latest poll gives support to Oama's new attack ad on Energy:
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/
election_20082/2008_presidential_election/voters_like
_obama_s_energy_credit_for_working_families_but_
give_mixed_reviews_to_windfall_profits_tax
"The survey shows that 39% of voters favor a windfall profits tax on oil companies, 36% are opposed, and 25% are not sure. Democrats favor the windfall profits tax by a 52% to 22% margin while Republicans oppose it by a nearly identical margin (55% to 23%).
Unaffiliated voters are evenly divided."
This is a perfect wedge issue for Obama to hit on. Democrats favor it, Republicans oppose it by an equal margin. Screw what the Republicans think, they're not voting for him anyway! This shores up his base support and helps differentiate himself from McCain.
Even better: "Obama has proposed paying for an energy credit and paying for it with a windfall profits tax. When those ideas are combined, 56% of voters are in favor and 32% are opposed."
So, when Obama talks about his energy tax credit, PLUS a windfall profits tax to pay for it, support actually INCREASES over the support for just the energy tax credit (55%) or windfall profits tax alone (39% of all voters, and 52% of Democrats).
This tells me that Obama's done his homework on this issue and sees a real opening to both give voters an idea of what he would do to solve the energy crisis, blunt McCain's attacks and go over to the offensive and paint McCain as a tool of "big oil" all in the same go.
It's a excellent campaign strategy and he should get out his ads in every battleground state as soon as possible.
Jake,
"There's no way that you can say with a straight face that McCain is on the left wing of the Republican Party."
Hey, don't look at me - it was those damn academics at UCSD who said it a couple months ago. Maybe looking too closely at all those roll call votes finally made them go daft.
Cugel,
"The survey shows that 39% of voters favor a windfall profits tax on oil companies, 36% are opposed, and 25% are not sure."
A 3-point margin makes this a successful wedge issue? If I was going to spend millions to raise the profile of a policy proposal, it wouldn't be a windfall profit tax.
Yes support goes up when you talk about an energy credit, but wouldn't that suggest that the support is for the energy credit, not the windfall profit tax?
(never mind either that a windfall profit tax harms energy independence by decreasing the profitability of domestic drilling - when Jimmy Carter did the same thing, American oil production dropped 9% despite record high oil prices).
Cugel,
You're right. He needs to get ahead of this issue quickly.
Republicans are saying "Drill Drill Drill". Americans are saying that sounds good to me.
Obama has blunted their attack by giving in on the drilling, but he really needs to force an idea of his own. If he says "drill plus an energy credit" and McCain says "just drill", the effective news story is not to talk about drilling but to talk about the credit.
As long as the story stays exclusively on drilling, we're losing the energy issue. We can't lose the energy issue this year.
This is a really good time to change the subject.
If Obama locks up the midwest it all over for McCain. I agree Bayah helps on that front. Obama already has the cities of Gary and Indy. In a state full of small towns having one of their own running for president would hold considerable swaye. IN has 11 electorial votes more than MT and KS combines.
Yes support goes up when you talk about an energy credit, but wouldn't that suggest that the support is for the energy credit, not the windfall profit tax?
You know I love to go to restaurants. My favorite part is eating the food. My least favorite part is paying the bill. If only I could eat the food without paying the bill......
Obviously the benefit is more popular than the cost. It would be irresponsible and naive to campaign on a promise of giving away a benefit without having any idea of how you are planning on paying for it.
I think the point is that when you combine the cost and the benefit into one balanced proposal, this is clearly something the public likes.
David,
First of all, Nate's piece wasn't even about McCain. It was primarily about Evan Bayh. But all right.
Secondly, adding McCain's record from the 107th Congress has the effect of reducing his average from about 96 to about 86. It certainly doesn't put him in the left wing of his party.
That's a bit like saying that graduating 804th out of a class of 899 (as opposed to 894th out of 899) makes you an average student.
hoseretohoosier and cugel:
I agree with that Toronto conservative (hth) on this one. Only 39% support a windfall profits tax on big oil. That's a warning sign, not an invitation. Repubs have been successful in recent times in making the ordinary public (98% of whom make less than $250K a year, most far less) believe that a 'soak the rich' plan is dangerous to their economic well-being. Big oil ought to be wildly unpopular, but a special tax on it is still not wildly popular. Giving it some play, OK. Making it a major wedge issues -- probably wouldn't work.
Bayh also voted against confirming Roberts and Alito to the Supreme Court.
Apart from the obvious elctoral advantage Bayh would bring to the ticket, why would Obama risk Indiana's senate seat. Does he figure the Dems won't get a filibuster-prrof amjority but they'll still be in the majority? That seems the only explanation. Personally I'd still go with Wesley Clark or Brian Schweitzer for Veep.
You're right about Bayh's personality - He makes Al Gore look like Joe Biden.
I'd love Biden, mainly because McCain could very well pick an attack dog to go after Obama (Romney could do negative the best) and Biden can bark with the best of them. I'd also like Richardson to get a shot: extensive foreign policy experience, and now as governor of NM, he has executive (and economic) experience, which as a plus, came outside the Beltway.
Birchbeer said...
"Though Obama has implied the VP will be a consiglieri for him, it's more realistic he'd use the Lincoln model of using his entire cabinet as a team of advisors. I don't see the VP returning to its bucket of spit past but I don't see it as bizarro Cheney either. I expect Obama will surround himself with a mix of wise people like Bill Bradley, Sam Nunn, Robert Reich, Joe Biden, Chuck Hagel. And in any true crisis, I doubt he'd hesitate to seek Gore or Bill Clinton or Bush 41 or Carter's opinions. The VP, whoever he or she is, will probably just be another opinion in the mix."
Those are "wise people"?
I'd imagine Obama would surround himself with the likes of Bill Richardson (State), Wesley Clark (Defense), John Edwards (Attorney General), Elizabeth Edwards (Health), Richard Clarke (National Security) and Caroline Kennedy (Education). I would accept Biden and Reich, though.
If it is only 39-36% approve of the ad, then it is going to backfire on Obama badly. The general comments were: 'who is Barack? The next George W. - doesn't he understand that taxing oil companies will result in higher prices for us? etc.
There are a lot of things to go after McCain on but this is not the one, especially with Obama's 'change of mind' in the last month on drilling and the strategic oil preserve (and the knuckleheaded comment that inflating our tire will save all the gasoline than can be obtained from drilling).
There are lots of red states that elect Democrats - Brad Henry in OK, Schweitzer in MT, Bredesen in TN, etc.
A VP pick will add 2-4% to the ticket in the state if he/she is popular (and Bayh is) but this pick would leave Obama wide-open to be crushed by McCain picking a 'wild card'. Certainly an Obama-Bayh ticket would be defeated by a McCain-Hutchinson, McCain-Ridge or possibly even a McCain-Cantor. I don't think that Bayh can deliver IN and he will magnify Obama's 'flip-flops' by his own voting record.
Clinton picked someone who had the same political views as himself, so did Bush with Cheney. Doing so augmented the tickets rather than fracture them.
How liberal is Bayh with two outs and runners in scoring position?
NJ_Moderate said...
"A VP pick will add 2-4% to the ticket in the state if he/she is popular (and Bayh is) but this pick would leave Obama wide-open to be crushed by McCain picking a 'wild card'. Certainly an Obama-Bayh ticket would be defeated by a McCain-Hutchinson, McCain-Ridge or possibly even a McCain-Cantor. I don't think that Bayh can deliver IN and he will magnify Obama's 'flip-flops' by his own voting record."
Doubt it. If Obama picks Bayh, then he must be pretty convinced Indiana will be in the bag, otherwise why pick him? Obama/Bayh wins Indiana - Election is over. Saying that, I'd still prefer a ballsier pick like Wes Clark or Brian Schweitzer for VP.
Do you honestly think McCain-Hutchinson, McCain-Ridge or McCain-Cantor would be a big deal? If MCain was gonna pick a woman, he'd pick Sarah Palin. But she has problems at home. None of these names will energise the conservative nutbase - something McCain needs to do.
As for flip-flopping, in the past 2 weeks alone, McCain has flip-flopped on Iraq timetables, Taxes (twice in the same interview) and Affirmative Action, and probably a few more. Fortunately for McCain, David Axelrod and Obama have yet to hit him hard with attack ads. He better they don't, becuase there's a shitload of footage out there that could sink his candidacy.
Maybe that's why they're waiting???
If you were to go back just one more session to the 107th Congress his "ranking", which varies from 0.0 for most liberal to 100.0 for most conservative, suddenly plummets to 57.0.
So what?
That's getting into ancient history politically, back when he was McCain 2000.
There is little trace of McCain 2000 in today's McCain.
Senator McCain is in the left wing of the Republican Party and President Bush is on the conservative edge of his Party.".
Bush's stances on spending and illegal immigration alone put him nowhere near the conservative edge of his party.
Bayh is a great choice.
He balances Obama experience, and has a shot at bringing in some of those crazy Hillary PUMA's.
Sure, he can pick someone like Kaine, but that will hammered in the press as the dual inexperinece ticket.
Jackson
There is no left wing of the GOP anymore. There is reactionary and barely tolerated conservative.
If they think Bayh can deliver Indiana, then it's fine by me. Moderate or liberal, he will administer according to the will of Obama. I can't shake the thought that Obama is toying with outside the box in choosing.
I don´t think Bayh as a liberal.
He´s a moderate democrat. Obama needs moderate and conservative votes in the general election, no elitist left-wing votes.
Obama picking Bayh in 2008 would be a lot like Gore picking Lieberman in 2000. If Obama does it, he's absolutely lost my vote (I'm already wavering with all his flip-flopping to the right happening pretty constantly lately). Bayh was a cheerleader for the Iraq War from its very start, and more recently was even the sponsor of Senate Resolution 580, the companion piece to the notorious House Resolution 362, which demands that the Bush administration halt Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program (you know, that intelligence assessment on these matters came out not even a year ago and people already seem to have forgotten about it), going so far as to call for an attempt to completely halt all imports of refined oil products going into Iran. One might be aware that despite its tremendous oil resources, Iran lacks much refining capabilities, and this would be an extreme, drastic form of economic warfare launched against the Iranian people. Many have interpreted these measures as even requiring a naval blockade for implementation, which speaking historically would clearly amount to an act of war. Bayh, like 2000 Lieberman, may have a relatively progressive voting record on domestic matters, but when it comes to foreign policy he's a severe, extreme hawk. Obama needs to remember why he was able to tap into the netroots to defeat Hillary -- "it's the war, stupid!" -- and realize that picking Bayh would amount to an implicit endorsement of Resolution 580, which would be seen as a horrific betrayal by anyone who during the primaries voted for him as the "peace candidate." I was growing up in Indiana while Bayh was governor. My father was a big Limbaugh dittohead at the time, yet he really liked Bayh and voted for him, for some reason, so even before Resolution 580 I'd have been extremely suspicious of this fellow. ABB -- Anyone But Bayh. Don't do it, Barack!!
I am confused -- I thought being a liberal was a bad thing. They even went and changed their names to Preogressives or something.
I am relieved that nate finds Bayh to be a Lib. I am convinced Obama will pick him and it will amek the ticket so much easier to attack.
Wait..Wait... I thought that guy from Virginia had a lock on the VP slot. What the h*ll was his name? Charles Foster Kane? Is his 15 minutes over already?
Interesting.
The last thread, lots of people pointed out that Obama's only shoring up his base, the "people who will vote for him anyways".
Then on this thread, the mob is talking about how if Bayh is picked "Obama could lose some of his base".
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Yeah, when I looked up Bayh's record, I was pleasantly surprised and became considerably more sanguine about him as a VP pick.
Here is another ranking of Senators, with 100 = most liberal and 0 = most conservative.
Bayh scored 89, slightly to the left of Chris Dodd and Ron Wyden, and roughly in the middle of the Democratic party. That's in absolute terms, not relative to their respective states.
McCain scored 19, which (as of 2005) put him to the left of at least 45 of his GOP colleagues. Still a big gap relative to the leftmost Republicans (Chafee, Collins, Snowe) or the rightmost Dems (Ben Nelson, Conrad).
Wait, wait, I don't understand - according to your graph, Obama is NOT the most liberal senator in existence (a sign of his evilness, it seems). You mean to tell me that Conservative talking point is complete BS? Huh. Who woulda thunk.
Bayh is by far his best choice. The liberal moonbat blogosphere will have a small hissy fit after hes picked, but it would be worth it.
There are 49 Democratic Senators, and they are all the most liberal Senator. According to the Republicans all Democrats are far left communists. It's just a talking point.
It goes the other way as well. All Republicans are clinically insane right wing nut jobs who want guns so they can shoot up schoolgrounds. It's all just meaningless mutterings from the spin masters. Unfortunately the media sucks it up.
As for Bayh, I think he would be a fine pick for Obam, as would any of the other commonly mentioned choices. I could also see a surprise choice of an unknown general.
I think the President is more important to most people. The VP is just the first surrogate.
If Bayh hadn't been such a hawk on the war, I would put my full support behind him. However, because he supported the war, I think it disqualifies him. How can Obama talk about how his judgement on the war is worth more than McCain's experience when his running mate showed such poor judgement? Has to be someone who voted against the war.
The chart is fabulous. Any way to get the raw data or table to know who all the dots are. Curious where Di-Fi (and others) fall.
Birch Bayh is also a big supporter of the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which would render this site's model obsolete! (But which is also another argument supporting the Bayh family's good government credentials. Maybe we can get Evan as VP on topics like this, verified voting, and depoliticized redistricting.)
Bayh helps win America because while photogenic and young, he has the kind of experience that looks presidential (2 term governor, 2 term senator w/ foreign policy oversight).
Sebelius, Kaine, Schweitzer, and even Mark Warner have only won 5 elections between them and have very thin experience.
And I really like the visual of Obama/Bayh - young, confident, good looking and dynamic. Very similar to Clinton/Gore in 92. It plays up the generational comparison and I don't think that's bad. It also, if I might be so crude, repeats very positive images in people's heads of about a million big hit buddy movies.
And i do think Bayh can keep IN competitive and maybe even win it.
Brad, didn't you mention on another thread that you are married to a PUMA? My condolences to your "crazy" wife. Or I suppose you could use the condolences instead, since a guy who would belittle his wife online must be thoroughly whipped in real life.
You all are dreaming to think any VP pick will help Obama. The upside of picking Bayh will be to watch the "netroots" who lost their collective mind over Obama wail once again about Obama's "betrayal" to them!
Stephen, you're not used to the "betrayal" by now? FISA, NAFTA and campaign finance weren't enough of a clue? Those of us not assimilated into the O Collective have been highly amused to watch your reactions to reality breaking through your fantasy projections. I mean, come on. Move On snubbed the candidate who voted against censuring them, and endorsed the candidate who took a pass on that vote.
But I'm glad there are still plenty of diehards left who whimper that Obama was "forced" to support offshore drilling and still believe he will bring progressive change in the future. We have to have some fun at the expense of those who inflicted this disaster on the rest of us.
The polarization in that graph is interesting: the Democratic senators fall on a trendline that tilts more liberal than the states they represent, and the Republican senators fall on a trendline that tilts more conservative than the states they represent. So this confirms that the senate is more strongly polarized than the electorate at large. Fascinating
And even more fascinating is that both Obama and McCain are more liberal/conservative than their respective states, but especially McCain, who is near the top of the conservative scale. He really has embraced Bushism 100% in recent years. It probably helped him get the GOP nomination, but will it backfire on him in the general? It should, if Obama's campaign gets the message out.
Sebelius isn´t a good choice. The better choice is Bayh or Webb, they´re no liberals. Liberals don´t help Obama.
http://mondayrocks.com/mt/blog/2008/08/ideaological-discussion-of-bay.html
Evan Bayh reminds me of Kevin Kline playing the President in the movie "Dave". Kind of a mix of the "good" and "bad" characters Kline played... I agree with Stephen above that Bayh's stance toward Iran (impoverishment through sanctions) is very misguided. He could use a course correction on that.
Interesting graph - there are 2 differently colored senators, the ones below and slightly above Clinton.... I guess the bottom one is Vermont´s Sanders, and the top one is Lieberman?
My thoughts about Bayh: a tactical pick, aiming at Indiana wihile not doing overall damage or benefit apart from that. In comparison to Sebelius I wonder if those stubborn Clinton supporters in the majority were supporters of the WOMEN Clinton or the PERSON Clinton. The former group might be pleased with Sebelius and disappointed with Bayh, while Hillary (and Bill) Clinton fans probably prefer Bayh.
While I don´t really like him I don´t think he is bad, either... maybe the Democratic Pawlenty. And since noone is perfect you might find parallels to Pawlenty´s bridge disaster, like Bayh´s votes on the war. Hmm, Bayh is an average pick.
Jim Butler:
The rating you picked comes from a site whose methodology is extremely weak and it is for 2005 only. Not very useful IMHO.
McCain has gone conservative for 6 years (3 sessions) now. He has sold out what made him attractive to moderates to pursue the Republican base.
This is truly exceptional work, thank you.
I will grant that DLC Bayh does nothing for me. I see the DLC as a Clinton thing, and if one wants to bring them back, Gen. Wesley Clark would seem to be the guy. His tax positions in 2004 were amazingly progessive.
I believe that the American public is relatively equally divided, but I have very little faith in the great majority of Americans, very few of whom get their news from anywhere but the television.
Really great analysis on your part, in any event, keep up the good work!
I mentioned before, did I not, that I make even fancier maps, using any data you'd like to use? I have state, county, and, in this case, congressional district base maps? I'd be honored if you considered using my services to generate the maps you create with your data.
McBush voted with Bush 95% of the time or more the last two years. This is not cherry picking, McBush is just another third term of Bush.
I challenge any Republican to give me a major policy difference that McBush and Bush have.
Don't go to the climate change card because McBush already threw that under the BS express.
I for one love Bayh any place Obama has weaknesses Bayh has strength.
Nate if anyone wants a true picture of where the candidates appear on the political spectrum I would send them to the following unbiased link. The National Review says it is not biased but it lies as much as McBush.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/spectrum.xpd
Bayh won't just alienate the netroots - he will alienate hispanics because of his opposition to immigration reform. Bayh is the antithesis of change. He will heavily reinforce the narrative that Obama is weak, phony and untrustworthy.
www.obamabayh08.com now links to the United Negro College Fund's website instead of to the DNC's website. Interesting...
On a somewhat interesting sub-note, the UNCF is sponsoring a walk for education here in Minneapolis 2 days after the Republican national convention. I'm sure that's just a coincidence. They wouldn't take advantage of all the fired up liberals left in the RNC's wake, would they?
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