8.29.2008

Sarah Palin Thoughts, Revised and Extended

Wow. Judging by the amount of traffic and commentary on the couple of Sarah Palin threads I posted earlier, people are absolutely fascinated by this story. I don't think we can pass this off with the usual excuse about a VP choice not mattering. This is another fascinating element in a fascinating election -- I just don't think we have any real idea of how it's going to play out.

One thing we do have to give McCain credit for is taking a risk. Being behind in the election -- and I think McCain probably will wind up being a couple of points behind once the respective convention bumps play out -- necessitates taking a risk. Suppose, for instance, that McCain is 2 points down in the election. Suppose furthermore than there is a 50 percent chance that Palin boosts his standing by 3 points, and a 50 percent chance that she makes a major gaffe that costs McCain 10 points. That's actually a pretty good gamble for McCain to take, since he'd wind up winning the election 50 percent of the time (by one point) and getting blown out the other 50 percent of the time (by 12 points) -- better than losing the election by 2 points 100 percent of the time.

Obviously, that is an idealized rendering of an exceptionally complicated dynamic, but the whole reason to make a game-changing pick is because you're losing the game. And that McCain apparently made this pick on Thursday, after having seen that Bill and Hillary Clinton had exceeded all possible expectations in rallying their supporters behind Barack Obama, showed a certain awareness of the political landscape.

Then again, I think there was a better risk for McCain to take, which would have been picking a pro-choice candidate and calling out the religious right's bluff. You want a really terrific pick? How about Olympia Snowe, who has held down a senate seat in a blue state for 14 years, and who has a formidable resume.

***

But ultimately, we are in completely uncharted territory here. Palin is the most manifestly ordinary person ever to be nominated for a major party ticket. In this year of bittergate and Britney-gate and McCain-has-seven-houses-gate, that could conceivably be a virtue; it's certainly less tone-deaf than a selection like Mitt Romney would have been.

But Palin isn't merely playing at being ordinary, the way that Bill Clinton (Rhodes Scholar) or George W. Bush (son of a president) or Hillary Clinton (wife of a president) might. She really, really comes across that way -- like someone who had won a sweepstakes or an essay contest. Her authenticity factor is off-the-charts good; her biography sings. But do Americans really want their next-door-neighbor running for Vice President, or rather someone who seems like one?

161 comments

SNED said...

As a finance major, I’m going to throw in a finance term here called the “dead cat bounce”, where a stock has been plummeting, and then some event raises a stock price, only to be short lived and have that stock come crashing down.

That is basically the Palin picked summed up. While the Democrats have to toe a fine line when tearing her up, Palin is right now going to cause the McCain-Palin ticket a bump in the numbers. It will, it is inevitable, you gotta figure at least 1-2% of people polled might get their interest piqued and say, sure I’ll give the old guy and the young woman a chance. Then, when Palin is no longer the big story, gas prices rise because off shore drilling in the path of hurricanes leads to supply disruptions, people still get laid off, and the economy is poor, they will realize that she brings nothing new to the equation.

Palin is a personality to be respected, as she is by all accounts very charismatic. That’s where here good points stop. Is there any possible way people look at her and say, you know what, I’d be ok with her being president? No! Some Vice Presidents are picked to help carry a state, others are picked to help govern. NEVER (other than Potatoe) has a VP been selected in order to get votes. What will she do when she is vice president?

Nothing.

And that is why it is a dead cat bounce.

Obama-Biden 08!

eponymous said...

Another Palin thread?

Damn you Silver, where's our polling update? I need my fix, man.

What? What are you looking at?

Ben said...

Apparently Palin endorsed Pat Buchanan in 2000. That's definitely not a normal American, or my next-door-neighbor.

Rasputin said...

I think I speak for the entire civilized world when I say Palin Schmalin, we want a polling thread.

Guy said...

I agree. Palin is definitely a risk.

Marcus said...

Do you think this pick in going to stop Obama's bounce?

Obama has been proving for almost a year that he is qualified to be the president. She is only going to have 2 months. It is going to be a tough task as this isn't a beauty contest.

Patrick Noonan said...

Are you kidding?

"Her authenticity factor is off-the-charts good; her biography sings."

The first statement, while true, is not a good thing. Palin is authentically a local pol from a tiny state, someone who would be seven levels over her head in a mere discussion of foreign policy, much less in operating the machinery of foreign policy.

The second statement is baffling to me. It sings no more than does the interesting life story of, oh, probably 100 million people in this country. She has achieved so little, has rarely ventured away from Idaho or Alaska, and I seriously doubt she could find her way around New York or Chicago, much less Asia and Europe.

I have no problem believing that she is a decent person and a reasonably smart one, too. She's got to have SOMEthing on the ball to get to her current position. And it would not surprise me to see her, over time, grow into other positions and leadership roles. Fair enough.

But COME ON. This is the Presidency we're talking about. (McCain is 72 today, and the rigors of the job age the sturdiest of comers.) The context sets the bar higher than mere interesting scrapbooks and local achievement in a tiny locality.

hosertohoosier said...

You are dead right on Olympia Snow - I have long been rooting for her. McCain even likes and knows her - they were part of the gang of 14 together.

eve said...

I heard on NewsHour tonight that the only time Mondale lead in the polls was the day he announced Ferraro as his veep choice.

This choice is bizarre and will be entertaining. It seems to me they barely did any real vetting.

"An Alaska investigation into whether Gov. Palin improperly fired an employee is scheduled to release its findings just days before the November election."
TPM

Nate said...

Polling thread will be up in just a bit. Was on a plane all day.

Patrick Noonan said...

One more thing, since this site is such a great hang-out for datophiles, here's a puzzler for you:

What percentage of the US population live in a COUNTY with more people than the entire STATE of Alaska?

[Clue: There are 82 counties that, according to the 2000 census, have more than Alaska's 2000 population of 627,000.]

Matthew H said...

Screw Palin. What this shows is that McCain is a lying bastard who will say anything to get elected.

All that stuff about experience? Lies. All that stuff about the veep being ready on day one? Lies.

If I were Obama, I'd just do one commercial after another during the Convention showing how McCain said one thing while campaigning but did something different when it came his turn to pick.

eve said...

Yeah, polling thread coming!

Thanks Nate. I'm sure it's been a long day.

stevie314159 said...

Tom Ridge was the pro-choice choice that really scared me.

The wingnuts would have gone along, since they want to win and have no principles anyway (see: last 8 years).

And PA and OH would have been in play.

stevie314159 said...

Here's another quiz:

In how many primaries this year did Barack Obama receive more votes than Sarah Palin got for Governor in 2006?

30!

Paranoid said...

But do Americans really want their next-door-neighbor running for Vice President, or rather someone who seems like one?

Yes. Yes we do.

Andy said...

Yep, blowing his major line of attack on Obama ('experience'), in a desperate attempt to woo Clinton fans (who will almost certainly feel pandered to and patronised)... that certainly is a game changer. He just lost.

Coulda held on there at -2 points for 3 months, waiting for some minor gaffe, then hit it with everything he had. Hell, maybe Obama would even make a major gaffe. You never know. Coulda sat tight and hoped for that.

Instead, he panicked. And choked. Oops!

PS Imagine if he made other executive decisions like this one - i.e. impulsive and desperate. Imagine someone like that trying to decide whether to pursue diplomacy or go to war with someone. McCain's impulses are just too unpredicatable and risky.

Nigel said...

This is too funny;

McCain - Adulteror

Palin - ex beauty queen, still has some looks

One commentator on NBC news sitting next to Katie Couric put it thusly, though I am sure HE did not know what he was saying, or did he???

"McCain has "tapped" Palin"...he was attracted to her...he saw part of himself in her...he saw McCain junior in her"

I mean come on, maybe it is the 15 year old boy in me but given the circumstances you can't make this stuff up to be that funny.

PorridgeGun said...

This is McCain's Dukakis moment. He just threw the Election for Obama.

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/08/sarah-palin-what-is-it-exactly.html


Sarah Palin Corruption Scandal Imvestigation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UojMnCgqVA




She's also anti-choice, even in cases of rape and incest, and is anti-science - supports creationism and denies global warming.



Come on, where's the REAL pick. Does McCain even know where she stands on the issues?

TG G said...

I'm surprised he chose a woman. But I'm even more surprised he chose someone under investigation for abuse of power. After 7 years of Bush/Cheney I'd think they'd be looking for someone who knew about the limits of executive power. I'm saddened as an American. I'm actually kind of thrilled as a [recent] Democrat.

ursula said...

The comments here and media reaction are typical; most people aren't even willing to listen to her ideas and beliefs, they are just dismissing her and treating her just like they treated Hillary.

And this site's bias continues. When given the option, you include polls with 3rd party candidates over ones that don't. This has almost always favored Obama. Then the CNN/Time swing state polls come out and you cherrypick the results that favor Obama again and violate your policy to prefer polls with 3rd party candidates. (See the Nevada reults.) Just like how you include polls commissioned by the Daily Kos, but not ones commissioned by the FL Chamber of Commerce.

Tito said...

Paranoid said...

But do Americans really want their next-door-neighbor running for Vice President, or rather someone who seems like one?

Yes. Yes we do.


Um, "Yes" is not an answer to an either/or question.

I'd rather have someone who seems neighborly but has practical experience. Not some deer in headlights "oh my god he picked me!" every day person. Seriously, if something happened to McCain between election day and inauguration day this country would be screwed.

AxmxZ said...

I think once the general high of the newness and freshness (not history, since it revisits territory already charted by Geraldine Ferraro in '84) of having a woman VP candidate ebbs, some very serious questionswill be raised about Palin that were never raised, for obvious reasons, about Biden. What exactly qualifies he to be a heartbeat away from Presidency? She was a two-term mayor of a village that, according to Alaskan press, she left in a mess of debt and failed projects. She has been Governor of the 3rd least populated state in the Union for 18 months.

It's popular to say that Obama is "inexperienced," eve though his experience and professional qualifications match those of Abe Lincoln, and that guy seemed to have a decent grip on things, when all is said and done. But there is "8 years of state legislature and 4 of US Senate" level of 'inexperienced', and there is "4-year mayor of a town of 5,000 and governor for 18 months" level of 'inexperienced'. A man in her sitation would never have been considered for the job, much less selected. Palin is, plain and simple, an 'affirmative action' hire. If McCain had really wanted a competent and qualified woman VP, he would have found one - Olympia Snowe, for instance. But he selected a very young, very pretty, and completel unknown female with a resume so thin she makes Barack Obama look like Ted Kennedy. This makes the selection not an act of conscious and resonsible outreach to female voters but a blatant pander, an effort to visually rejuvenate the ticket, and an unsettling sgn of McCain's irrepressible impulsiveness.

In short, FAIL.

albionmoonlight said...

I agree that this was a smart risk for McCain.

If the GOP roster had a VP candidate who did not come with major downside, that person would have coasted to the Presidential nomination.

There were no good picks for McCain. In that world, why not take a risk?

Tim said...

This is quite possibly the worst VP pick in modern history.

McCain is old, Palin has ZERO relevant experience for the job. Obama looks like, excuse me, he is a seasoned veteran next to her. Obama has been running for President of the United States for the same length of time she has been governor of the third least populus state in the nation. She's an evangelical Christian and wants to teach creationism in public schools.

Is there any reason at all to suspect that she's ready to take on the most important job in the world?

I'll answer it for you: NO!!!

Meanwhile, I'll add to the chorus clamoring for a polling thread.

DaveStew said...

I love the smell of Republican sweat. Nothing like pulling the headlines with a governor from nowhere to show everyone just how desperate John McCain is.

This change election will be the beginning of another 40 year run for the Democrats, just like FDR. Do you know who ran against FDR each of those elections? Most people don't, and no one will remember McCain or Palin unless she winds up in jail for misuse of her office.

kharry44 said...

I think this pick will go down in infamy as one of the worst VP choices ever.

I want it that whenever someone is tapped for a position that they are clearly not qualified for (a la Harriet Miers, FEMA's Mike Brown) but placed for purely political reasons to be refered to as "pullin a Palin".

Oh there goes (Insert GOP pol) pullin a Palin again! How quaint.

Hey Nate - I'm ready for a polling update if you are....

De Montfort said...

Based on the stories coming out of Alaska, I don't think Palin was even vetted.

DCM in FL said...

not much new polling data to analyze anyway

very quiet on that front today

funny thing about the Palin pick-6 lottery selection...

she completely bumped McCain off the news also except for the headscratching going on, "yikes, what was he thinking ?"

here is the inside scoop, folks.

Joe Lieberman was not standing beisde John McCain to whisper the correct name into his ear - so he said Palin instead of Snowe...

[sorta like Shiite instead of Sunni]

Tim R said...

Let's face it, if McCain does win on Nov 4th by a small margin, and has a fatal heart attack ( God forbid) two or three days after taking the oath of office, does ANYONE really want Sarah Palin trying to stare down Vlad Putin, or the nut job from North Korea? That is all anyone needs to know about her............

Brian Morton said...

Weirdest choice since the Mets traded Lenny Dykstra for Juan Samuel.

Ben said...

"But do Americans really want their next-door-neighbor running for Vice President, or rather someone who seems like one?"

NO
As someone who knew the Bushes in Austin and whose wife went to school with them at Austin High, that is what we just had. He would be a fun guy to spend a day fishing with, she would be fun to moose hunt with, but neither belongs in the most important office of our land.

Think: Do I want my next door neighbor setting fiscal policy in our incredibly complex economy?

Do I want my next door neighbor negotiating a tense situation with Putin?

Do I want my next door neighbor trying to figure out how to get Congress to move?

Rudy said...

Thinking McCain should have picked a RINO like Snowe (uggh!) shows fundamental misunderstanding of middle America and the average voter.

Similarly, it misunderestimates the importance of good conservative instincts to many voters, which translates into trustworthiness.

One of William F. Buckley's most famous quotes is apt here: "I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University."

The libs mosly hate the Palin pick -- stark contrast to most of the conservatives being hunky-dory with the Biden pick. For all the arm-waving and invective we've seen around here today, it shows they don't get what a huge soidifying positive this is for Republicans.

If she proves out as strong and popular on the big stage as she's looked in limited exposure, she's the heir-apparent.

That's what people are REALLY excited about.

albionmoonlight said...

Another thing. McCain was smart to maximize his bounce by leaking Romney and Pawlenty before this pick.

Just when the GOP was facing down the worst possible pick (Romney) or Dan Quayle 2.0, McCain gives them a "Maverick" pick.

PorridgeGun said...

Jack Cafferty pwned Stephen Hayes earlier tonight. He just said he’s had a shitload of e-mails from people in utter befuddlement over this pick, then he asked Hayes who’s more qualified to anwser the phone at 3 a.m? Biden or Palin? Hayes couldn’t answer the question.

If played right, Obama and Biden can effectively destroy McCain this week. But they must run ads showing her ignorance and extreme right-wing views.



Hey, James Carville just said "befuddlemeent" and quoted a FOX News viewer who is angry.




McCain campaign hack getting pwned as i type this from Larry King, of all people. LOL

Sedi said...

I feeling a bit full of myself here, as Nate has basically made three arguments in the post that I have been saying here and to my family all day (and in previous days).
1. This was pick of someone who knew that he was likely to lose unless he took some bold, dramatic action soon. It might (or might not) have been a smart move, but it was very clearly a desperate one.
2. We have no idea how Palin is going to play out, despite the fact that everybody on the other thread seems to know FOR CERTAIN exactly what impact it will have.
3. There were other women (and I particularly pointed to Olympia Snowe) that were vastly more qualified that probably would have helped McCain even more.

Not that Nate is the standard by which correctness is judged, but it's nice to know that someone else has analyzed the race in the same way.

Added note: I have said several times on this site that I don't think the election is as close as Nate's model makes it out to be, for a variety of reasons that the model does not capture. I think that this pick vindicates my view. McCain would not have picked Palin if he thought that he had a 40-50% chance of winning. She represents a HUGE gamble, not a little one. I've been saying that Obama has about an 80% chance of winning for a few months now, and I still think that feels about right, pre-Palin. We'll have to wait to see what the post-Palin landscape looks like.

Patrick Noonan said...

Patrick Noonan writes:... here's a puzzler for you:

What percentage of the US population live in a COUNTY with more people than the entire STATE of Alaska?

[Clue: There are 82 counties that, according to the 2000 census, have more than Alaska's 2000 population of 627,000.]


That would be 107 million people, roughly 40 percent of the US population.

Yes, nearly half of us have county executives who oversee larger population (and probably budgets) than Palin does. More roads, schools, employees, departments, utilities, etc.

PorridgeGun said...

Clinton people are firmy on board TEAM OBAMA....and FIRED UP.



What was McCain thinking?

SalP7 said...

To quote Rachel Maddow "Palin is the Danielle Quayle" pick.

Have they even met before?

COPAY said...

Palin got pregnant around age 42 with her fifth child. Every woman knows the risk of having a child with Down Syndrome after age 40. Perhaps she does not believe in birth control either along with abortion. Her water broke while giving a speech in Texas, yet she boarded a plane, while in labor and flew to Alaska to deliver, putting herself and baby at extreme risk. That is not heroic, that is poor judgement.

shawkin said...

I have trouble imagining her as the President of the United States.

Sedi said...

ursula,
You said that you were leaving and never coming back, but you've posted on two different occasions since then, only to complain about the site. If you don't like it, LEAVE! It's not that difficult.

DCM in FL said...

RUDY

DEMs & libs & others do not 'hate' the selection of Palin for VP.

We are dumbfounded, incredulous, and gravely concerned about the lack of proper judgment that John McCain has shown by this pick.

But we do not 'hate' it, and we certainly do not 'love' it either.

This is no 'maverick' move - it is a deperate unseemly pandering in the hope of personal gain for himself rather than for his country or party IMO.

Next he will want to appoint his elderly mother as Secretary of State...

randomobserver said...

Here's the ULTIMATE head fake. The surprise Palin pick distracts the media from Obama's speech. Then the story about Palin's own scandal draws attention. Palin graciously removes herself from consideration, leaving McCain to select, say, Romney. McCain gets the benefit of APPEARING to tilt to women, conservatives, etc. but doesn't seriously have to justify putting your next door neighbor a heartbeat away from the presidency.

eponymous said...

Thanks Nate.

By the way, did the Super Tracker really just do what it looks like it did?

Rhys said...

"What was McCain thinking?"

What about the last four months has given you the impression that McCain is capable of thinking?

To borrow a phrase from Mr. Colbert, McCain "felt" his VP pick at us. (So to speak.)

As for wanting someone ordinary as potential president -- that's the same tactic that got us George W. Bush. Look how well the country has fared after 8 years of that bumbling, moronic "everyman" at the helm.

DaWolf said...

I wanted to see if this is likely to make a difference long term. Nate, I'm sure youo could write this up better and with some nice graphs!

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fXDV3HQTtPcC&pg=PA193&lpg=PA193&dq=1984+us+election+votes+male+female+%25&source=web&ots=QEJI3Jawjl&sig=XqaqRXDm_M8y80eUPSJ1jiGRdqw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

1980 election - 8% more women than men voted for Carter.

1984 election - 7% more women than men voted for Mondale.

1988 election - 8% more women than men voted for Dukakis.

1992 election - 5% more women than men voted for Clinton (but Perot means this number is low, as both male and female percentages are lower)

Basically there is absolutely no evidence that Ferraro caused any kind of female bounce. 56% of the female vote went to Reagan.

Rhys said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Rhys said...

I'll ask it again even though no Dem will have the balls to ask Palin to her face:

If Republicans feel so strongly about 'family values', why has she chosen to put her desire for political advancement above the care and development of her special needs infant?

Paranoid said...

Tito said . . .

Um, "Yes" is not an answer to an either/or question.
I'd rather have someone who seems neighborly but has practical experience. Not some deer in headlights "oh my god he picked me!" every day person. Seriously, if something happened to McCain between election day and inauguration day this country would be screwed.


Tito, you misread the original post. It was not an either or question. It was saying "Do Americans really want their next door neighbor VP" then the "or rather someone who seems like one" meaning not one who is literally there next door neighbor but one who seems like they could be their next door neighbor. Try again.

tray said...

Couple points:

Then again, I think there was a better risk for McCain to take, which would have been picking a pro-choice candidate and calling out the religious right's bluff.

I say that's a worse risk. You can say, who else will the right vote for, but they can always stay at home. If you nominate a pro-choicer, evangelicals will fear that he/she'll be the next Republican President once McCain gets around to retiring, or worse yet, McCain dies (he is old) and Snowe gets to appointing moderate judges. Better to nominate a pro-life woman and hope that low-information pro-choice voters get fooled into voting McCain-Palin. The Down's kid also gives her a lot of moral credibility in this regard.

Palin is the most manifestly ordinary person ever to be nominated for a major party ticket.

William E. Miller, a seven-term Congressman from New York and Goldwater's vice-presidential nominee, was pretty ordinary. Same for Spiro Agnew. If anything, Agnew probably was a little closer to the average American IQ than Palin is.

DCM in FL said...

randomobserver

if you are correct, then it is just like Harriet Miers - her nomination lasted what, 3 weeks ?

but who would want to step in at the 11th hour to rescue the GOP ?

wait, Mittens likes to do last second rescues like in SLC

PowerFem1 said...

Do they honestly believe .

So lets recap McCain's reality: to be rich you make 5 million a year and the average working mom's profession is a soccer mom who was runner up in a beauty contest and Hillary supporters would switch to a anti choice candidate just because they both have ovaries. If I weren't giddy right now from the nail in the coffin this choice made I'd be insulted. When I think of women who inspire me, the head of the PTA doesn't make the list.

Paranoid said...

Rhys, this is only a problem in the liberal mindset. Palin is showing every little girl in America that you can grow up and live a traditional female life - you can get married young, have a bunch of kids, and still be successful. It's a wonderful lesson!

bryen193 said...

"There were no good picks for McCain. In that world, why not take a risk?"

Because what he was doing was working. Hillary Clinton was beating Obama at the end using a line of negative campaigning that was persuading nonpartisan moderate democrats and independents that Obama was all talk, not qualified to be president and that he "isn't ready". She ran out of time. McCain was continuing that theme and cutting into Obamas lead with more than enough time to spare by insisting that the world is dangerous, a president must be "ready to lead" and have international experience, stroking and increasing the doubts and fears that Clinton managed to instill about Obama in her blue collar supporters (take a look at the supertracker on this very website and which direction it is headed). There's nothing wrong with Palin herself. People will like her (except for those for whom abortion rights are an extremely important issue). She'll be a media darling and get alot of coverage. But it's McCain who will be hurt by this reversal of the clear message of his last two months of campaigning. He literally has to start from scratch now with a brand new message - that McCain and Palin are the real change agents and the real outsiders and Obama/Biden is the Washington insider ticket. Not likely to work in such a short time.

Snax said...

Re:"we want a polling thread" - I guess reading polls right now is like trying to do sextant reading in a force 10 gale.

The important statistic for today is 15% - that's the chance McCain dies within 4 years, my guess that there is an equal chance he is incapacitated by serious illness. So Palin's (lack of) experience really matters.

PorridgeGun said...

Carville's really hitting hard: "One heartbeat away from a 72 year old heart."


Apparently McCain met this creationist nutball...ONCE. Which is the same number of times Obama has met her.

DCM in FL said...

Rudy said...

"Thinking McCain should have picked a RINO like Snowe (uggh!) shows fundamental misunderstanding of middle America and the average voter.

Similarly, it misunderestimates the importance of good conservative instincts to many voters, which translates into trustworthiness."

Not sure what you mean by 'misunderestimates'... say what ?

And is 'trustwothiness' sorta like 'truthiness' ?

yup, thought so...

SarahLawrenceScott said...

Ursula: You were right. Nate made a mistake when he first posted those polls. The thing is, he fixed it!

Look in the right margin. Nate has CNN for Nevada as 41 to 41. The CNN poll for Nevada with third parties was 41 to 41; without was 49 to 44.

Although Nate did make the mistake initially, when it was pointed out, he went back to his stated policy. Continuing to complain about it is just confusing.

DaWolf said...

Nate, if you have time...might be very interesting to run a gender gap analysis - do pro-choice women standing for office generally pick up more of the female vote than pro life ones?

James said...

I scarcely have to give a candidate for the presidency of the world's only superpower "credit" for proposing to put a heartbeat away from that awesome responsibility a foreign policy ingenue. (hasn't "really thought that much about Iraq."

It is reckless and irresponsible to put the security of the republic so at risk. McCain has proven even an experienced 72-year-old be rash and foolish.

Tito said...

"To borrow a phrase from Mr. Colbert, McCain "felt" his VP pick at us."

Ha! That is perfect, Rhys.

Rhys said...

"The Down's kid also gives her a lot of moral credibility in this regard."

Considering that she's effectively putting the needs of this poor infant second to her own personal glory, I don't see how.

Vern said...

I'm with W.F. Buckley. This has given me the first and only reason to ever think McCain is worthy of my vote - and that is now with the HOPE she ends up across a table from Putin before he does.

As for W. he only played an everyman on TV, or did you forget the Bush's were rich Ivy Leaguers?

"the most manifestly ordinary person ever nominated" is about the best thing I could ever hope for this country.

Continue to Spread the Word!!! said...

You liberals are quick to attack an unknown. Watch what you say, it could end up coming back to bite you. According to Democrats in Alaska, she is no slouch, she is the real deal, and she has cleaned up the state. She has attacked Republicans in that state for their mistakes, and also sold the state jet on ebay for state profit, which was purchased by the former Republican Governor.

McCain Palin 2008!!!
REFORM WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

Rhys said...

"I'm with W.F. Buckley. This has given me the first and only reason to ever think McCain is worthy of my vote - and that is now with the HOPE she ends up across a table from Putin before he does."

So... you're voting for McCain as president because you are hoping he'll die so someone even less qualified takes his place?

Boggle.

Michael said...

You guys are missing what just happened. McCain chose Palin for the following 4 reasons:

1. Solidify and electrify the Republican Christian right base. Dobson came out today to endorse the ticket (he didn't even endorse 'W' in 2000) because of the Palin pick. This is McCain's "Ground Game", without it, he loses and he knew it.

2. New theme: 'Maverick Reform' - all of this McSame stuff now goes out the window - he is going to pound the reform theme, with Palin's outsider and out-of-the-box assistance, to convince America that HE is the Agent of Change. (Also, won't be hearing about the houses anymore).
3. Palin will attract a solid percentage of undedcided independent and some white working class women Democrats - not many but enough to make a difference in small town Ohio, Michigan, and PA.
4. Kiss those western state dreams good-bye Obama! Sarah is a woman of the West. NRA, hunter, pro-drilling, Mom with 5 kids. Fits into the strong western woman brand - Goodbye Colorado, Nevada, Montana, and New Mexico! Sarah has just stolen them from the Dem's

postscript said...

I think another interesting thing to look at is the timing of the announcement. McCain chose to introduce Palin on his 72nd birthday, so now, instead of making fun of the old guy on the late-night shows, Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert will be making fun of Palin.

Think about it: Obama has, throughout the campaign, appealed to younger voters--voters who are probably more likely to be turned off by McCain's age. By picking a young candidate, and doing so at a time that prevents his age from being a top story on the shows, McCain is trying to pick up some of the undecided young voters.

Joe said...

a group of my friends were invited to meet up for drinks this evening. one responded, "i can't, i'm busy reading 'sarah palin and tall.'"

i don't know why i found that funny - maybe because that book was so universally reviled, or maybe because the one good thing is she's shorter than mccain - but i just about fell off my chair.

PorridgeGun said...

Obama needs to stop talking to the press. Not that he says anything wrong, it's just that he gives them too much time. Quick response. Move on.

Rhys said...

"You liberals are quick to attack an unknown."

And what have you right wing knuckledraggers been doing to Obama for the last six months, idiot?

"According to Democrats in Alaska, she is no slouch, she is the real deal, and she has cleaned up the state."

Who gives a fuck?

Your candidate spent the last four months OVER and OVER and OVER again going on about how important national security is, and he picks someone who is utterly clueless on international affairs with no experience even on the national scene -- and you lying fuckheads pretend this doesn't matter?

If Obama had picked someone with her lack of experience you'd be all over it like white on rice. For once, why not try being honest, you know, just to see if you like it?

Tito said...

I'm in complete disbelief that someone who was mayor of a village of 6,500 only six years ago could wind up as the leader of the free world, with only a stop-over at governor of Alaska for 18 months in between.

Spin it all you want to GOP guys, but today McCain did the unthinkable - he out-inexperienced Obama.

tray said...

Bryen193 makes a good point. If the primary season were somehow extended, Hillary would've eventually passed him - so one might wonder, why not just crib Hillary's strategy? First, I don't really buy the characterization of Hillary's late-season strategy. Up to the point of the 3 am ad, she was running on an "I'm experienced, he's not" message. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not, but it was always a little counterproductive because, by wrapping herself up in experience, she opened the door for Obama to claim that he represented change in a way she didn't. PA and Indiana were won with a more positive campaign that stressed her depth of economic policy knowledge and populist themes. At least, that's how I saw it. Second, McCain can't just borrow what Hillary did and hope it works, because Hillary was a Democrat and he's not. That is, a huge percentage of the electorate is predisposed to vote for Obama, given the economy and Iraq, whereas in the primary there was no such predisposition; they were both Democrats. In order to beat Obama, he has to resort to more aggressive and risky tactics than the stuff that worked for Hillary.

Tim R said...

The news services are reporting that the Romney, Palenty and Hutchinson camps are furious with the pick of Palin and the way McCain treated them in the process. This doesn't bode well long term for the GOP...

Aberracus said...

OMG, please, we don't want a "hot" elemental school teacher as the next Potus, she doesn't look statewoman, she doesn't talk like a statewoman -more like a cheerleader-. Standing next to Macain, one could think that he haired his new secretary.

Palin, nohow, noway

The Lyric Orchestra said...
This post has been removed by the author.
ursula said...

"Considering that she's effectively putting the needs of this poor infant second to her own personal glory, I don't see how."

Rhys- would you say this if her husband were the VP candidate? Have you criticized Obama for leaving his two young girls for "his own personal glory?" The hypocrisy is sickening.

Darío said...

Michael, i don´t agree with you. She doesn´t help very much in CO, NV and NM, Romney might help McCain hera tah Palin.
And the Palin selection is only for win the Hillary voters, only for this.
Women are not stupid.

DaWolf said...

"Spin it all you want to GOP guys, but today McCain did the unthinkable - he out-inexperienced Obama."


Frankly, I don't have a problem with someone inexperienced, if their bright and smart and a strong leader with a good heart and the ability to make important decisions on the basis of more than a gut feeling. However no comment on whether Palin is all of these...whereas Obama undoubtedly scores on all of them.

What strikes me most about this choice though, quite apart from Palin, is that it really highlights McCains hypocrisy. THAT'S the attack that Obama should be making - ignore Palin, go after McCain for hammering Obama for months on experience and then backtracking as far as possible.

Aaron said...

Ursula wrote: "When given the option, you include polls with 3rd party candidates over ones that don't."

Ummm, that would be because voters get the choice of 3rd party candidates. It's a more accurate poll.

Tito said...

Holy shit. Is the Super Tracker broken? What's that nearly vertical red line on the right hand side?

moondancer said...

I don't think any aspect of Palin will mean much. It's the transparent pander that he's attempting. The political calculation to jeopardize the country for a chance to win the election that will crush him. He spent the last month harping on this point, accusing Obama of this very thing and now he does this? Fail.

Rhys said...

"You guys are missing what just happened. McCain chose Palin for the following 4 reasons"

There are only 2 reasons he picked Palin:

1. She has breasts and a pretty smile.

2. He couldn't find someone with breasts and a pretty smile who was actually qualified, who was willing to ride the Titanic with him.

"Dobson came out today to endorse the ticket"

Yawn. He would have done that anyway.

"all of this McSame stuff now goes out the window"

Total bullshit. I mean, it might convince some of you zero-intellect 'conservatives' but anyone with a brain can see this is a pure vanity pick. Even McCain has said he sees no policy role for the VP.

"Palin will attract a solid percentage of undedcided independent and some white working class women Democrats"

And her selection also pisses off millions of supporters of actually qualified candidates, who were basically discriminated against solely because of sex.

"Goodbye Colorado, Nevada, Montana, and New Mexico!"

If you actually believe this is going to singlehandedly turn around a state like Colorado, well, you're stupid enough to be a Republican.

As for the others -- who cares. This stupid pick could easily cost him both Michigan and Ohio -- I'll take that, you can have Nevada and Montana, sport.

Rhys said...

"Rhys- would you say this if her husband were the VP candidate?"

Yes.

"Have you criticized Obama for leaving his two young girls for "his own personal glory?" The hypocrisy is sickening."

There's a big difference between school-aged girls and a 4-month old infant with Down Syndrome. What a fucking idiot.

ursula said...

tim r- Link? Hutchison asked not to be considered for VP because she wants to run for Gov. of TX so your story makes no sense. She was never vetted or considered.

Nick said...

I'm going to be a turd here.

Sarah Palin is anti-choice. My assumption is that she thinks life begins at conception, and an abortion is ending a human life.

Sarah Palin chose to have a child at the age of 44. The rate of spontaneous miscarriage at this age is somewhere between 50 and 75%, as opposed to 14% in younger mothers.

So by her decision to have a child at her age, she increased her chances of ending a human life by about 50%.

Isn't that... wrong?

(This is not to mention the risk for other disorders or diseases, such as, for example, Down Syndrome.)

nkpolitics1279 said...

I was watching Larry King guests were James Carville and the blonde McCain advisor-lady. She keeps saying Palin is qualified because she has an 80% approval rating. Of course Palin has a high job approval rating Alaska is a Republican state. If having a 80% job approval rating makes her qualified for national office does that mean Governor Bill Ritter who has been governor of less than two years and was Denver District Attorney before that is qualified for national office.

eve said...

I think the McCain campaign may be surprised at how women react to this choice.

From Andrew Sullivan:
I've had a few emails on these lines today:

No sooner did my best friend hear about the Sarah Palin pick than I received an e-mail from her. It said simply: "Sarah Palin is a Bad Mother!"

I was at work but could not resist giving her a call to follow up. She told me that she was watching CNN and heard that Ms. Palin had 5 children and that one was only 4 months old and born with Down Syndrome. "How in the name of GOD, can she even think about leaving her child or taking her child on the campaign trail for 70 days?" She was indignant.

Let me tell you why My best friend Liz matters. She is 37 years old and Catholic.

She has three children under the age of 9 years old. She lives in Reston, VA (the suburbs of D.C.). She is a registered Independent and has voted both Democratic and Republican. She is a stay at home mother and was a RABID Hillary Clinton supporter. She was considering staying home instead of voting this November. I had been trying to convince her of the FOLLY of this stance. Anyway...

I guess that McCain feels that Liz is just the demographic that he could poach with the selection of Palin. Instead, Liz tells me that there is "no way that those two people (McCain/Palin) should be in charge of her kids' future." Today she decided to vote for Barack.


The women I have talked to today all have echoed similar reactions.

We shall see.

DaWolf said...

@ursula

"Rhys- would you say this if her husband were the VP candidate? Have you criticized Obama for leaving his two young girls for "his own personal glory?" The hypocrisy is sickening."

Michelle Obama no longer works I believe. Palins husband does. It is irrelevant which parent stays home but with a Down's Syndrome baby it can be argued that one of them should. Or in other words - Palin's husband should quit his job.

Pssst said...

There are so many reasons why Palin is a bad pick --- I'd say "risky" is a nice way of putting it. As an Obama supporter, I was worried about the possibility of McCain choosing a female VP, but I was thinking more along the lines of Hutchison, Whitman or Snowe. I assumed McCain wasn't crazy enough to choose Palin. After all, she undercuts McCain's strongest argument... the experience argument. And she makes him look like a flip-flopper on the issue of experience. And she makes him look like he's pandering to women.

And what can the GOP talk about for the next 60 days? I assumed it would be experience: "Prepared to Lead," "National Security," "Ready on Day One," etc, etc. But Palin makes it all sound silly. Sure, she's a successful local politician, but imagining her as leader of the free world is terrifying. Before today, McCain's big advantage was that he was the "safer" candidate. Now he isn't. And what if, heaven forbid, there's another war or terror attack between now and the election? How will Palin look then? I'm stunned by this decision --- it's unbelieveably bad. I've talked with a number of other Obama supporters today and we are all very happy. ;-)

Todd Dugdale said...

Palin will screw up a dozen times before the election when talking to reporters or being interviewed on TV. Whatever gains the Republicans imagine she will bring will be offset by her gaffes. She is not accustomed to having her words analysed or quoted.

The nation has already tried "the guy you want to have a beer with", and look how it turned out. I can't imagine hard-line pro-life, evangelical, and Bush 28%-er views appealing to independents. If that worked on independents, then they would be already Republicans. She only gets McCain the people he already has.

Far from "scaring Democrats" as some have asserted, she really just seems to provoke a shrug. If McCain had selected a Latino or Asian business leader, then I'd be worried. As it is, Palin just comes off as his secretary or nurse.

DCM in FL said...

I asked several women here in FL what they thought of the selection of Palin.

They all said the choice was an insult to then all as qualified professional women - it smacked of unearned advancement, and was a setback for accomplished women.

The reverse of the glass celing being broken - they view it as reinforcing the glass ceiling...

ursula said...

rhys- When Obama started running for President they were little girls. Your old-fashioned and misogynistic attitude just makes you and your candidate look bad.

Tito said...

DaWolf -

I was actually referring to McCain, not Palin. The whole experience thing has been McCain's bag for this election. The consensus amongst political analysts was that Obama's pick of Biden was a smart pick. McCain's pick of Palin was like throwing a dart and seeing where it hit.

Becky Sharp said...

Obama has been proving for almost a year that he is qualified to be the president. She is only going to have 2 months. It is going to be a tough task as this isn't a beauty contest.

In any case Obama beats Palin hands down in a beauty contest! :-)

postscript said...

"In any case Obama beats Palin hands down in a beauty contest! :-)"

Ditto :)

Tim said...

.... amazing executive experience Governor Palin brings - afterall Alaska has a population just a little bit bigger than Milwaukee or Baltimore and I'm sure McCain would similarly find the mayor's of those two cities qualified to be one step from the Oval Office.

Rhys said...

"rhys- When Obama started running for President they were little girls."

They were not infants with Down Syndrome.

"Your old-fashioned and misogynistic attitude just makes you and your candidate look bad."

I'm not misogynistic -- McCain is for exploiting this woman for political purposes.

If Sarah Palin felt strongly enough to have this child knowing he would have Down Syndrome, then she should fucking well have committed herself to taking care of that child as well.

It's called personal responsibility, something Republicans claim to care about.

myptbloze said...

All this earnest analysis is ridiculous. She is a joke. He is a joke. This is the most absurd moment ever in American politics. People will not be fooled by this cynical ploy.

Todd Dugdale said...

paranoid wrote:
Palin is showing every little girl in America that you can grow up and live a traditional female life - you can get married young, have a bunch of kids, and still be successful. It's a wonderful lesson!

How many "little girls" vote in November? Didn't her job as Governor prove the very same thing? And if the ticket loses, what lesson does that give to "little girls"?

DCM in FL said...

knock, knock

who is there ?

Sarah, Sarah Palin

Who ? no really, who is there ?

Rhys said...

"All this earnest analysis is ridiculous. She is a joke. He is a joke. This is the most absurd moment ever in American politics. People will not be fooled by this cynical ploy."

Don't kid yourself -- Americans are stupid.

Karl Rove has made a career off fooling people with cynical ploys.

xyz said...

Now Pat Buchanan is on the record saying that saying that Palin was a "brigader for him" and that both Palin and her husband were fundraisers for him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9rZkJfKoEU

uh oh... those Jewish voters in Florida are not gonna like this.

Virginia Conservative said...

I love this.

Liberals are crapping their pants.

Joe Biden can't beat her in a debate. You're going to lower expectations so much all she will have to do is smile and breathe. If he beats up on her he will be a sexist.

This is change, reform, AND fires up the base.

Some non-story, non-scandal won't change that! They are just out to get here there cause she's a reformer.

Q said...

I give this comment a 90% chance of being ignored, but what I want to talk about is why no one in the MSM is asking other prominent Republicans (Romney, Crist, etc.) flat out if they think Palin is a better VP pick then they would have been. Those are responses I would like to see. It's amazing that these so called reporters are consistently refusing to ask these tough questions.

MrInsight22 said...

I am shocked by the pick but after seeing her debut I really don't have a feel for how this will paly out.

I suspect she will be an asset in CO, NV, ND, MT, MN, WI, and MI. Maybe in ME, NH, IA, PA, and OH.

She has an 80% approval rating in AK, the highest of any governor in the country so she must wear well.

DaWolf said...

@Tito

got to agree with you there. I simply can't see how throwing away the experience attack - which HAD to be worth at least a couple of percentage points, and possibly the election - for the sake of an evangelical who won't appeal to any independants bar a few women and might turn more women off due to the appearance/fact of a pander....

his base will be happy. That's it. But Dems have a 10%+ ID gap and independants aren't evangelicals and are more likely to go the other way in response.

Darío said...

Please, Romnet and Huckabee are best VP than this women.
This is a pick to win the Hillary supporters, not for the country.

Ben said...

My reaction to this pick is best summed up as: what the hell are you doing John? You could have picked Romney and almost had the upper hand on economics, a subject you admit to knowing almost nothing about.

Instead you take a pretty random and non-notable Governor, who is the subject of an ethics investigation in her remote state. I've watch the news all day and the only positive thing I can say about her is: she is a woman.

Of all the women you could have picked, why this one? You flubbed it John.

postscript said...

Q-

When asked flat-out, any prominent Republican that doesn't want to ruin his or her reputation is going to say that Palin is a wonderful pick.

It's the same situation Clinton was in--she could endorse Obama enthusiastically, or she could diss him and ruin her reputation and her political career.

James said...

Rhys,
You're my new least favorite poster. Congratulations you made it past Cugel. Anyway I have been advocating Palin for days and I'm glad he decided to go with an outsider to reinforce the maverick image. I just saw Barack on tv trying to say Sarah Palin is "more of the same". I hope he keeps trying to make this case because it's a loser for him. No matter what your opinion is on Sarah Palin, there's no way she's "more of the the same."

James said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Darío said...

"I suspect she will be an asset in CO, NV, ND, MT, MN, WI, and MI. Maybe in ME, NH, IA, PA, and OH".

In MN?, in ME?, in IA?, in WI?.
What are you smoking?.

She´ll win in VT too, please....

Darío said...

Romney can help McCain in western states like CO and NV and in MI but no Palin.

Dave from Louisville said...

This is what happens when marketing guys take over presidential campaigns.

Hillary supporters are not dumb, they know the difference between a beauty queen and a highly educated executive who went to Yale.

Something Obama needs to bring up, McCain and Palin are by far and away the most uneducated people to ever get this close to the office of president.

McCain - Annapolis ranked 894 out of 899 in his class
Palin - bachelor's in journalism from University of Idaho.

There is a good reason why these two don't understand global warming, economics, etc.......... Ignorance is bliss.

DCM in FL said...

Nate has his promised new polling thread up now.

BTW - please people, quit parrotting the fals assertion that Palin has 80 & 90 % approval rating in AK.

She did last year before the abuse of power & improper influence stuff came up.

Rasmussen has her approval ratings now as 64% - she is starting to tank the more the people get to know her since she has only been in office for 18 months...

DaWolf said...

@Mr insight

"She has an 80% approval rating in AK, the highest of any governor in the country so she must wear well."

Not according to Rasmussen which gives her 67% (and house lean)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/sarah_palin_unknown_nationally_popular_in_alaska

DaWolf said...

oops, that should be 64%

Rhys said...

"You're my new least favorite poster."

I'm sorry, am I supposed to care about that?

"Anyway I have been advocating Palin for days and I'm glad he decided to go with an outsider to reinforce the maverick image."

He's not a 'maverick', so you meant to say 'reinforce the maverick illusion.'

What happened to your idiot candidate harping daily on experience and readiness to lead?

Well I guess if there's a PTA emergency at 3 am Palin's got that covered.

"No matter what your opinion is on Sarah Palin, there's no way she's "more of the the same."

Her selection is more of the same -- a purely cynical, political move.

Her positions are more of the same -- ignorance, religious fundamentalism, creationist stupidity, and trying to remove a woman's right to choose.

Enjoy Sarah Quaylin -- you deserve her.

Paranoid said...

20-25% of Hillary supporters were women that previously voted for Bush. This pick instantly clinhced those voters. 20 to 25% of 18 million is 3.6-4.5 million votes. That is a huge margin

Q said...

@ Postscript

No doubt you are correct, but I think it would be demonstrative to hear every Republican who is actually qualified to VP be forced to directly confront that someone who was not qualified was selected over them. I'f I were a journalist, I would ask that question to every last one of them, and for good measure, to McCain himself, his wife, his advisors, etc. Why was she the BEST choice, if not only because she might give an electoral advantage? Inquiring minds want to know.

Rhys said...

"20-25% of Hillary supporters were women that previously voted for Bush."

Source? Or did you just pull that out of your ass?

Pssst said...

Yes, Rasmussen's approval ratings are:
Sarah Palin (R)
Alaska 07/30/08
35% Excellent
29% Good
22% Fair
14% Poor

A 64% approval rating for a right-wing governor in a deep red state is not really remarkable, especially when she followed the dismal Frank Murkowski, whose approval ratings had slumped down in the 30's.

Becky Sharp said...

Bad vetting = Bad judgement.

Buchanan supporter
Rabid Creationist
Troopergate
Turning a blind eye to sexual abuse (see above)
Living off proceeds of Big Oil

There are so many "gates" around Palin she's beginning to look like a goat at a petting zoo

Darío said...

Religious fundamentalism?.
This is the country of Freedom, not the Iranian regime or the some middle-east countries.
Fundamental religious is from the middle ages, not for XXI.

Pssst said...

P.S.

Gov. Dave Heineman (R) in Nebraska has 66%
Gov. Joe Huntsman (R) in Utah has 68%
Gov. John Hoeven (R) in N Dakota has 72%

Subterranean said...

@ Rhys -

OMG, I love you so much right now! Especially after reading this:
Your candidate spent the last four months OVER and OVER and OVER again going on about how important national security is, and he picks someone who is utterly clueless on international affairs with no experience even on the national scene -- and you lying fuckheads pretend this doesn't matter?


Can I get you anything? A drink, a crossword, a blowjob?

@ Paranoid -

Palin is showing every little girl in America that you can grow up and live a traditional female life - you can get married young, have a bunch of kids, and still be successful. It's a wonderful lesson!

Oh, you scoundrel you, with your condescending crypto-feminism! Also...um, no. No. You be quiet now.

@ VirCon -

This is change, reform, AND fires up the base.

Please read I Corinthians 11:5; I Corinthians 14:34-35; I Timothy 2:12, etc. Then tell me this "fires up the base."

Q said...

Paranoid:

Palin is showing every little girl in America that you can grow up and live a traditional female life - you can get married young, have a bunch of kids, and still be successful. It's a wonderful lesson!

Yikes. I guess I missed that the first time around. Yes honey, you see, little girls should grow up to get married young, have a bunch of kids, and be a loving wife, but don't worry, you can still be successful too! No latent sexism in that statement...

Todd Dugdale said...

Some non-story, non-scandal won't change that!

But Obama's non-stories and non-scandals will be very important, right?

This is change, reform, AND fires up the base.

Keep telling yourself that. Nobody else buys it.
McCain's policies are the same as they were yesterday. Palin is a 28%-er all the way. McCain is too deep into lobbyists and controlled by the Party to even say the word "reform". More ties to the oil industry, too, with Palin.

As far as "firing up the base", McCain never needed that. He needs independents. This pick just got him more support from people he already has in the tank for him. You do realise that Republicans are in the minority these days, don't you? Like all Republicans, you continually overestimate the effectiveness of base appeals on the general public.

Libertarian said...

Wow, its pretty clear that people know NOTHING about Ms. Palin.

First off, are people actually insulting her for having a child with down syndrome? Is this actually happening?

Second, with regards to the "scandal"...she fired a man who TASERED (yes you read that right) her newphew and then threaten to kill her parents. What a corrupt politician!

And if people think she's Dan Quayle, look up what she's done in her 2 years in Alaska. She's been busy. She's faught against Republican corruption, completely overhauled the education system because it was a mess, and cut taxes. Read up on her before you make ignorant comments. This isn't like Obama who just sat around and voted present. She made the most of her time. She's swung my vote, they'll be plenty more to come.

I'll admit she's no Hillary, but she's not some token woman no matter how many times the far-left crazies want to believe it. She's a moderate fiscal Republican which of course to the Kos crew that makes its way over means "Neo-Con". Read up on her before you spew ignorance. She's an incredibly impressive woman.

Virginia Conservative said...

subterranean-

If you knew anything about Christianity you would realize those verses refer to women teachers and leaders *in the church*, moron.

Don' try to play arm chair theology because you'll look like an smug ignoramus.

BruinEric said...

Wow. This entry is quite a backdown from the earlier "she sure does talk funny" post. Its appreciated by this reader.

I suppose this mirrors the Obama-Biden campaigns gearshift today as well from when they came out slugging then backed down to cordial and congratulatory.

DaWolf said...

@Libertarian

"First off, are people actually insulting her for having a child with down syndrome? Is this actually happening?"

Most of the criticism on that front seems to be along the lines of - does it show good mothering to go mad on the tour with a 4 month old baby with downs syndrome (although thinking about it, for a 4 month old is the downs syndrome bit relevant?)

Personally it doesn't bother me. But it could well bother some people.

CRLIndoland said...

Before I went to bed I thought this was the worst political decision that I have ever seen in my life. Then I thought I was being unfair. Then when I woke up, I read more and I even strongly thought that this was the worst political decision I have ever seen. I used to be a huge McCain supporter. This is beyond the definition of reality.

I had to find a laugh so I did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSBgH_wf5bc
Meet Ms. Palin

Rhys said...

"Wow, its pretty clear that people know NOTHING about Ms. Palin."

Including John McCain! lol

"First off, are people actually insulting her for having a child with down syndrome? Is this actually happening?"

I'm not insulting her for having a child with Down syndrome. I'm criticizing her for putting a four month old infant with Down syndrome behind her personal ambition.

And if you think it's just me, remember the 'base' she's supposed to appeal to -- right-leaning women.

"And if people think she's Dan Quayle, look up what she's done in her 2 years in Alaska."

I don't give a fuck what she's done in fucking Alaska.

Every fucking day I've had to listen to John McCain's idiotic ads and moronic, sneering speeches going on about experience and readiness to lead and foreign policy. He then picks someone who scores a big fat fucking ZERO on ALL counts.

He's an opportunistic liar and fraud and this pick proves it.

"Read up on her before you make ignorant comments. This isn't like Obama who just sat around and voted present."

Ignorant -- you mean like perpetuating the idiotic Limbaugh talking points without knowing what the fuck voting 'present' means? Good show.

"I'll admit she's no Hillary, but she's not some token woman no matter how many times the far-left crazies want to believe it."

Of COURSE she's a token woman! LOL. There is NO chance she would have been chosen if she had testicles instead of ovaries.

Jestur said...

Three words, Nate:

One
Term
Pledge

A pick of Palin is tailor-made for a one-timer. Now will John ever say it? No. But the base has to think that the VP would be training time.

postscript said...

@ CRLIndoland:

That video is great. My favorite part: McCain will try to say that her lack of foreign policy experience doesn't matter, because he has lots of it. But doesn't that only work if he's, you know, alive???

Q said...

@ Libertarian

Just to clarify, she fired the guy who refused to submit to pressure to fire the douchebag ex husband of her sister. Regardless of how much of a bastard the true focus of her ire was, she used her political power to try to influence the decision of an official based on her personal feelings. Would I have done the same if I were her? Maybe. But I wouldn't vote myself into the Whitehouse either.

CRLIndoland said...

And one final point that I would like to make is from my wife, who is sitting next to me yelling in my ear. And she quotes: "To think women vote for women just because women is the most sexist and ignorant view I have ever heard. People voted for Clinton, I loved Clinton, because she is a women of experience who has worked tiredlessly for the past 40 odd years promoting the interest of women and fighting a battle in washington dc that few would even attempt. To think that I am this ignorant and going to support Palin just because she is a women is not acceptable...she is prolife, progun conserative politican who is also "a solid creationist" and a "global warming skeptic" ... that is what I vote on that that is enough to know that I will support this person." My wife obviously is must more liberal than me, but her comments I think are interesting.

Virginia Conservative said...

The base CAN win this election. It won it for Bush in 2004, it can do it again!

Go Base!

Subterranean said...

@ VirCon -

If you knew anything about Christianity you would realize those verses refer to women teachers and leaders *in the church*, moron.

Yes, because Evangelicals are soooo good at compartmentalizing their religious bigotry. For example, they never deny scientific fact because itS doctrinally inconvenient. Also, they NEVER try to legislate a social agenda that is peculiarly and specifically religious.

NEVER.


Don' try to play arm chair theology because you'll look like an smug ignoramus.

Or I'll look like I spent the first 18 years of my life being brainwashed in the Evangelical community, and know one or two things about that crowd.

Rhys said...

"A pick of Palin is tailor-made for a one-timer. Now will John ever say it? No. But the base has to think that the VP would be training time."

So McFuckingHypocrite, after lecturing us all year about how important it is to keep America safe, wants as his second in command someone wearing training wheels?

Great.

Rudy said...

It's an outright epidemic of concern trolls around here!

If experience means learning how to be a party machine hack, I don't want experience.

If experience means compromising conservative principles to appear centrist, I don't want experience.

If experience means going to the appeasment school of foreign policy, I don't want experience.

If experience means being willing to toss the unborn overboard to maybe get a few more votes, I don't want experience.

If experience means pandering to special interests instead of the constituents, I don't want experience.

Palin has the right instincts and she's unafraid. She can learn the details and form her opinions from the bedrock of her core principles.

Rhys said...

"If experience means learning how to be a party machine hack, I don't want experience."

Then why would you vote for McCain?

"If experience means being willing to toss the unborn overboard to maybe get a few more votes, I don't want experience."

No, we need to bear to term every fetus -- and then neglect them during their critical development phase to go on political campaigns.

"Palin has the right instincts and she's unafraid."

Yeah, and Bush was unafraid to go into Iraq.

That's not courage -- it's stupidity. And some of us are pretty fucking tired of having to pay the price for it.

Evan said...

In the main posting, the author says that Sarah Palin may help out John McCain or could make a major mistake, costing him big.

I disagree. The problem isn't whether Sarah Palin herself causes the problems. The problem with this pick is that John McCain has exercised poor judgment, has put the campaign ahead of the country, and proved to be a man who takes risks because he thinks it *might* work out.

In today's nation, we don't need another president who takes a risk on something that might or might not work. We've had eight years of someone who blindly felt his way around the international scene, entering wars without a strategy for instance. We need assurances from our President that he has thought through his actions and is prepared to lead America on a winning course. In choosing the former mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, McCain has only given us one more reason to doubt his decision-making skills.

Kyro said...

She's from my hometown of Sandpoint, Idaho. Is that cool or what?

(There's no way that I'm voting for anyone other than Obama for President, though)

Todd Dugdale said...

virginia conservative wrote:
The base CAN win this election. It won it for Bush in 2004, it can do it again!

Look at a calendar. It's not 2004 anymore. The GOP has been losing their base over the past four years, while the Democrats have gained about a 10% advantage. The registration drives during the Republican primaries were laughable in their new numbers. The Democrats' drives set new records. People who vote in primaries are very likely to vote in the general.

Then there was a little matter known as the 2006 elections, in which people just like you predicted sweeping gains for the GOP. Look at the electoral maps on this site. The Republicans are having to fight in states that they won easily in 2004, and they are going to lose some this time around.

In 2004, the Iraq war was still relatively popular, the economy was much better, Bush's ratings were much higher, the GOP cast itself as the only "patriotic option".
Since then, all of these things has gone south for the GOP, and they've essentially spent the past two years calling the majority of the country traitors and terrorist sympathisers because they lost faith in Bush's Iraq vision. I could go on, but the general idea is...IT'S NOT 2004 ANYMORE!

Matthew H said...

Q said...
@ Libertarian

Just to clarify, she fired the guy who refused to submit to pressure to fire the douchebag ex husband of her sister. Regardless of how much of a bastard the true focus of her ire was, she used her political power to try to influence the decision of an official based on her personal feelings. Would I have done the same if I were her? Maybe. But I wouldn't vote myself into the Whitehouse either.


Really? I wouldn't. Would I pressure an official to fire the bastard? Sure. Would I fire an official for not firing a guy I considered a bastard? Hell no. That's Nixonian.

Vanessa said...

All together, now:
ursula said... The comments here and media reaction are typical; most people aren't even willing to listen to her ideas and beliefs, they are just dismissing her and treating her just like they treated Hillary.

We all listened to Palin's ideas and beliefs today, and they are nearly universally stupid and crazy and anti-woman. That is why I, and all of my Hillary-backing friends, are solidly behind Senator Obama. His agenda is right for anyone who cares about women or the future of America.

Use your brain.

Will said...

"like someone who had won a sweepstakes or an essay contest."

brilliant description. That's exactly the vibe I get hearing her talk, seeing pictures of her with McCain, everything. It's genuinely confusing picturing her as vice president.

SouthernOntarioan said...

I don't think the religious right is bluffing. If he chose a pro-choice candidate they would simply stay home.

Now that's change you can believe in. =P

markymark said...

Someone, I think it might have been Chuck Todd on NBC, says that VP selections only matter on 3 days, the day they are selected, there convention speech, and the VP debate. Having slept on it, I do think Palin flunked the first one, though I do think McCain might still get a tiny bump off it, just because she is a woman.

Palin has to ace her convention speech I think, and start convincing people that she is not Ferraro and Quayle all rolled up nicely in a pretty package. She might be able to do it.

But I think the hardest thing she might have to cope with is her positions, as an anti-environmentalist, oil loving, pro life conservative, its going to be hard to pull any of Clinton's supporters along, aside from the symbolism of a woman. That and the investigation into the firing of her (soon to be ex) brother in law. I think that once some of the gaps are filled in, she is going to start looking an awful lot more like 'more of the same'.

Jarrod Myrick said...

Nate Silver says Palin a better pick than Romney. That's stupid.

Bill said...

Last night I started kicking around the idea that McCain might have had a stroke, or his PTSD from Vietnam (which I'm sure he has) is kicking up in a serious way.

He's been fumbling around and seemed confused quite a bit in the last month. The Daily Show has gotten a lot of traction out of some of his flubs. Then he goes and picks Sarah Palin for VP. If he was going after the disgruntled Hillary vote, he made a huge miscalculation on several levels.

Many Hillary voters were for her over Obama because of the experience issue. And the feminists who were doing identity politics saw Hillary as "one of them" who had fought her way up to the position she's in now. Sarah Palin is a generation younger than Hillary, she has accomplished very little in her life, and as my SO has said, she's a modern Phyllis Shafely.

I was predicting that Obama was going to win with 350 electoral votes. I think it might be bigger than that now.

PoliticalDoctor said...

The paragraph about a 2 point deficit, a 3 point potential bump and a 10 point potential drop resulting in a 50 percent chance of winning by 1 and a 50 percent chance of losing by 12 is lazy. There was no way to crunch those numbers and come up with an actual likelihood she'd affect the result? Based on the info y'all have posted on this site, it can't have been too hard to do. Just lazy...

PeteKent said...

Picking Snowe or any other Washington insider would have been a terrific mistake.

Palin brings a reformer's credentials to the ticket in a way that few others could have done. She stood up to the Republican machine in Alaska and beat it. By contrast, Obama cozied up to the Daley machine and let it help him.

Obama said he was going to bring change to Washington and instead he is bringing back Joe Biden.

People talk about relating to the middle and working classes; Sarah Palin is one of them.

Nate is right to recognize the game changing nature of this pick.

All this interest on the right and left shows how smart McCain was to pick her.

rocko's world said...

The pick of Gov. Palin was a surprise to everybody and I think that's exactly what MCcain was trying to do here. No one knows though who this woman is and doesn't even have an ounce of name notarity, Even though this may sway a lot of female voters I don't think its enough to put the MCcain/Palin ticket over the top.

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平平 said...

^^ very nice

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