Mark Halperin says two sources "who know" say McCain is picking Romney. This is a pick that has long made sense demographically. If two of the four the toughest battlegrounds include Colorado and Michigan, Romney's Michigan roots and his strength in Western states with high LDS concentrations make him a demographically smart pick.
However, Al Giordano hits upon a great point given today's narrative - Romney owns a lot of homes too. You can hear the counter-line already rolling off Democratic tongues: "Those guys are tough to beat. They own homes in almost every state."
Thus, while Romney makes sense from a demographics sense, he probably hurts from a narrative one. While we're down on the idea that VPs should be chosen to swing a certain state (unless the candidate is from a small state typically ignored by national campaigns), the total package can further a narrative about the top candidate. "McCain warmed to Romney once he saw how many estates he had."
The narrative consequences aren't all bad. While many observers have noted that McCain's camp overreacted by throwing the kitchen sink in response to today's seven-houses attack, it seemed more that McCain's team has been waiting for this excuse to go as hard as possible with as much as possible.
So, Romney does present the Democrats' best opportunity to continue the narrative they've discovered today, but it also shows that it's not as much a narrative election as it is a demographic one. Once McCain started talking about how his polling data showed the base had been solidified, he didn't have to worry as much that Romney would frighten those Republicans to whom Romney's Mormonism is a big turn-off.
8.22.2008
Romney: Demographics Over Narrative
by Sean Quinn @ 12:10 AM...see also romney, vice president
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This is the same Halperin who was floating Lugar today? He probably had higher confidence in the Romney prediction.
If Romney's houses get muled as a talking point too, they should really use the "aspiring to have houses in all 57 states" line.
Narratives such as this don't generally last all the way to the election, while a vice presidential choice is expected to, although there has been an exception (Eagleton). So McCain would be wise to pick a running mate based on his ability to help the ticket throughout the race, rather than worrying about what Democrats will say in the next few days.
What is the timeline of the semi-leak and Obama exploiting McCain's housing story? If McCain leaked Romney (obviously a big if) before Obama teeded off then there might be causation: Obama sending a shot across McCain's bow about the potential pick. I've noticed the Obama camp has done this with Charlie Christ. Every time the Governors name comes up in speculation, the Obama camp manufactures a story about outreach to the gay community.
Obviously, if the Romney leak came after Obama started whacking McCain, then it was probably just McCain playing defense and trying to knock the Obama campaign off their story.
also Romney would destroy any possible 'flip-flopper' narrative against Obama.
I do not see how Romney can help in CO [few LDS & too many evangelicals they might not warm to LDS] & in MI that narrative is a stretch...
But as a neo-liberal GOP Governor of a NE state, how does he assist the base ?
He was for it before he was against ______ name the topic.
still he looks good, but reinforces McCain's shortcomings & age.
On economics, the history of forced lay-offs for the companies he was involved in through Bain is a loser in OH with the whole DHL meme already.
Romney may hurt more in VA & NC & GA & FL too then help McCain IMO.
and his supposed financial assistance would come too late...
Olympics in Utah ? no big deal now. DEMs will talk about his wealth & houses & privelege & lay-offs & his record in MA.
I hope it is Romney ! will show what a hypocrite McCain is to sell his soul to try to win - since everyone knows he hates Romney even more than Obama dislikes Clinton.
Romney only works IF Obama goes for Clinton strategically IMO.
Catholics might decline to vote for the LDS
DCM, I understand your point, but the Obama campaign has never tried to paint McCain as flip-flopper. Quite the opposite, actually: the narrative has been a third Bush term and consistent conservatism.
A flip-flop line of attack actually might be hurtful in this strange election cycle.
Romney would give McCain a +3 boost at least in NV. Mormons will be energized to get out and vote, and they make up a significant part of the demographics in NV. Colorado, maybe, I don't know the LDS demographics there, this may negate the water compact comments he made earlier.
Is there thought that Biden could help Obama in Pennsylvania and in Virginia? As a philly area resident, I know that he reaches the Philly market (Delaware to around Trenton/Princteon and up into the Lehigh Valley and Poconos) but I wonder if his media presence reaches into VA at all (The Delmarva?)
Anthony, according to the world's most reliable source (Wikipedia), Colorado is 2% LDS.
I attribute Romney's success in the Colorado primary to the fact that he did well in Western caucus states - I believe he spent more time campaigning in the West than other Republicans - rather than any natural strength there.
Right wing radio hosts Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Mark Levin all love Romney and have been pushing Romney pretty hard. I think if those 3 like Romney, than I don't think McCain should be worried about angering his base if he picks Romney. Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin have a lot of influence on the right wing and McCain supporters- whatever they say, their listeners will listen.
Toby-
No one lives in the VA of Delmarva. 60,000 people, tops.
I've heard it's nice though.
Yes, pick Romney.
The narrative that Romney helps in MI is fiction. He never was elected in the state and just b/c your daddy was elected their means nothing.
Romney made his bucks by taking over, outsourcing and eliminating jobs in America. That plays well in MI in bad economic times. This would play right into the new nmarrative of economic out of touch McCain. Bring in a pure trickle down guy who made his money putting Americans out of work. I love it!
The Evangelicals consider Mormonism a cult, the turnout will drop. Do you htink these self righteous people are going to vote for a cult member in their opinion? They won't vote Obama, but less will vote McCain b/c they will stay home.
Romney is the pick and all you talk about is the houses flap that's about to get buried by two conventions? Pretty short-sighted.
Is it possible for intra-party pressure to force a nominee to step down? IMO McCain must go.
Let's get this down to brass tacks: a man running for leader-of-the-free-world CANNOT COUNT HIS HOMES. This is beyond problematic. Think about it. If, for some reason, the answer is not at your fingertips, crack a joke---"Why, you need a place to crash?"---and do a mental checklist.
Not hard. Take your mind on a little tour: well, John, there's the Arizona ranch, the Arlington condo, the Phoenix condo, etc.
If even that is too problematic, just keep a brisk, sketchy tone and say, "I live at the ranch, but Cindy has invested in several condos in..."
MOTHERFUCKER, do NOT say, "I'm not sure, call my staff..." What is WRONG with this guy?
Anthony-
Mormons already vote in number, vote Republican, and vote consistently. They're already a major block in the Republican base. They might be energized by picking Mitt, but they'll be energized no matter who the GOP VP is.
As long as s/he is pro-life, anti-gay.
Anthony,
First there are not enough Mormons for a 3pt boost. Second, if you are a Mormon you are 95% likely already a McCain supporter. But he is going to lose heck of alot more than 3pts in the Evangelical vote who think Mormonism is a cult. They are gone to stay home in alot of states.
ST-
That's what's so odd about this whole affair. It's such an easy question to answer. Even though I dispise town-hall events, in past campaigns McCain has shown a real ability to think on his feet when confronted by less than friendly questions.
New MI poll today of 600 likely voters from the Detroit Free Press . . . drum roll . . .
Obama 46
McClown 39
But--but--but--I thought the race was TIGHTENING in Michigan!! That's what Scotty Raspberry said! Guess that (silly) narrative will have to be changed pronto.
Looks like Mittens to the rescue to save McClone's candidacy! (Despite the fact that he will have no impact in Michigan whatsoever.) Did you know McCrone was a POW? That means you can't criticize him over not knowing that he has seven houses!
Subterranean
As opposed to somebody who doesn't remember how many states we have (It's not 57 is it?).
Or perhaps we can look at how Obama does when the teleprompter goes down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU
He's going to get killed in the debates.
About 1/3 of the responders in that Michigan poll were undecided.
Is it possible for intra-party pressure to force a nominee to step down? IMO Obama must go.
Let's get this down to brass tacks: a man running for leader-of-the-free-world CANNOT COUNT HIS STATES. This is beyond problematic. Think about it. If, for some reason, the answer is not at your fingertips, crack a joke---"Why, you think I meant Muslim countries?"---and do a mental checklist.
Not hard. Take your mind on a little tour: well, Barry, there's Alabama, there's Arkansas, there's Arizona, etc.
If even that is too problematic, just keep a brisk, sketchy tone and say, "I live at the Rezko house, and the Ayers babysit my kids..."
MOTHERFUCKER, do NOT say, "I must be tired, I forgot..." What is WRONG with this guy?
The McCain camp passed on the flip flop attack 6 weeks ago after polling revealed it wasn't working, that argument was so 2004.
The Housing argument is being used to set up a narrative that McCain is out of touch with average hard working Americans. Since McCain's tax cuts are geared to the wealthy, this narrative may very well be fertile ground that the Obama campaign can go back to repeatedly. If this is an economic election, which it appears it will be, then this is an important development in the general election, one that can be used as a baseline for attacking McCain. If Obama can successfully paint McCain as the "Out of touch" elitist, and himself as the working class hero, then Obama will win.
Obama does fine without a teleprompter, idiot.
And accidentally saying 57 instead of 47 one time is not a major gaffe.
McCain really didn't know how many houses he and Cindy own. Obama is a constitutional lawyer, he knows how many states there are...
P.S. on that last comment.
Obviously McCain and his camp think this argument is damaging, they issues three statements attacking Obama as a rebuttal, then released an ad with rezko, then warned Obama has opened the door to bringing in Jeremiah Right and its Obama's own fault. Does this sound like a campaign not worried about this line of attack?
This is an economic election. Obama has the inside track on domestic issues. If he can own the economy, and this line of attack is geared towards that, Obama will win the election. Its up to the Obama campaign to drive it home. A focused, repeated, intensive assault on McCain's "Out of toutch-ness" is very damaging to McCain because he's very vulnerable here.
57 instead of 47? Oh, my.
No wonder he needs his teleprompter.
THUNDER,
I was not implying Obama making an issue of McCain's flip-flops which are too numerous to mention [including oil drilling & possiblt the draft ?] so Obama should go there & I believe he will eventually in the debates or by surrogate.
But I think you probably would agree that Romney is a true flip-flopper for political advancement purposes. On the ticket, he would dampen the current talking head meme that the GOPers have going about Obama being a flip-flopper.
Yes it is the CONs flinging it about so far.
Tyrone said...
About 1/3 of the responders in that Michigan poll were undecided.
12% undecided. The number you're referencing aren't the undecideds. Those are just the number who aren't firm in their support (for either candidate). Leaners (I guess?) but not undecided by normal polling definitions.
Rudy:
Not very original. I doubt you'll ever learn, but it's worth a shot.
Quick explanation of that one. If you've seen the video, it will bear this out.
He was talking about visiting all the states in the CONUS (48) except one (47) and said "all 50...". This is because there are 50 states in the union. Simple mistake to make as politicians are talking about "all fifty states" all the time. Problem is, this time he was about to crack a joke about how his people had told him he can't go to AK and HI. Thus, he needed to say forty.
Now, if you watch the video at this point, you can see him say, "Wait a sec, that's not right, I'm talking about the CONUS. That's forty-eight. I've said fifty. Well.... better just go with the flow, I've got a laugh line coming up..."
If you want to jump down his throat for a joke that he blew the punch-line on, that's your prerogative. If you look at the video, however, he knew it was blown but pressed on. That's the major difference between these two events. McCain was lost. Obama wasn't. Obama recovered and continued, with nothing lost but a joke. McCain was unable to answer the question.
I think what Rudy is saying, in a roundabout way, is that maybe judging candidates by a single misstatement is a tad ridiculous. Sort of like characterizing a candidate using labels that could never conceivable convey any kind of meaning.
If not I'm not exactly sure what the message is.
I don´t think Romney helps demographically. The mormons of Nevada and Colorado are probably voting republican anyway. But maybe that decision gives the McCain campaign a base of enthusiastic volunteers?
The Michigan boost is doubtful, though it makes just as much sense as the idea that Sebelius helps in Ohio - but, maybe I am biased, I think Ohio will be more decisive than Michigan.
And I can see McCain losing Virginia and Florida for religious reasons. I am not sure it will happen, maybe abortion can be turned into an issue that keeps evangelicals in McCain´s camp - but it is a risk that these voters might just stay at home.
Epo-
Rudy's not that deep.
I'm happy if McCain loses, and I think Romney can help him out with that - seriously, the guy is so easily loathable, it's a gimme - but even though I'm backing Obama and I think McCain has fallen from grace since his "original maverick" days, it's a disappointingly boring pick if it is the Mutt.
The better news? Colbert gets to resurrect Guy Smiley.
Mark said...
The better news? Colbert gets to resurrect Guy Smiley.
Hell. Yes.
Mason said...
"...As long as s/he is pro-life, anti-gay."
and no one can be sure of what Mittens really believes in today before he was against it yesterday in MA...
also besides the obvious posts noting that LDS are already voting GOP as usual, and Evangelicals might not support the LDS, remember I believe polling shows that Catholics & the pope do not trust LDS [or hard-line evangelicals either].
So maybe Catholic Biden trumps LDS Romney in important key swing demos w/impact nationally ?
IND Catholics would probably prefer Lieberman to Romney IMO.
That's a nice attempt at interpreting "Rudy's" desperate, panicked spinning, but actually, the McClown campaign and their trolls on this site are simply in full meltdown mode. It's that easy to explain.
When their guy can't think of how many houses he owns, and can't even respond in a "regular guy" manner - - something that Boosh the Lesser unfortunately mastered - - they have to reach for anything their little hands can grab on to, and hold on for dear life. So don't blame "Rudy" if all he can come up with in pitiful rebuttal is a "gaffe" that means absolutely nothing and was simply an instance of misspeaking, something people do every day.
Not knowing how many houses you own, however? Wow; that's a horse of a different color. ROTFL. [sound of plummeting poll numbers]
WTF it's irrelevant that McCain can't recite Cindy's precise real estate portfolio. Like Mason said, the problem is that McCain's answer is probably THE WORST POSSIBLE RESPONSE.
This isn't just a slip of the tongue (57 states.) It's flunking every basic benchmark of political sentience and self-preservation.
How zoned out IS this guy? I never vote but this time I just might have to stumble out of the house and pull the lever for the monkey with a functioning brain.
We can not underestimate the powerful message the "7 houses" attack from Obama has on this election. First, its a landmark in terms of campaign philosophy.
Democrats repeatedly claim elections are won on policy. This is nonsense. Did Bill Clinton win on policy? Did George Bush win on policy? Of course not. Everyone voting on policy has picked sides already. Those left to vote, vote on personal and cultural issues. The republicans know this and attack their opponents personal traits, not policy. This latest Obama ad shows the Obama camp now realizes this and attacks McCain not on policy, but a personal trait, "McCain's out of touch." This change in tactics may show a sea change in democratic and Obama politics, and a good one.
If obama continues to attack McCain the person, not McCain the policies, and reduces McCain to a rich ,out of touch republican (Ala Bush 1) Obama will win this election. The tone of the convention will tell us everything we need to know.
The Michigan poll, indicating a solid seven point Obama lead, was conducted by Selzer and Co. Selzer was rated by Nate and this site as THE MOST accurate pollster around, based on their performance in the primaries, besting both SurveyUSA and Rasmussen by over a quarter of a point on average in their control of pollster-introduced error.
Epo had it right. Don't understand the fascination with gaffe-fest when the glass houses factor is so overwhelming. McCain had ample reason not to give an answer off the top of his head -- because he doesn't own the houses.
Yeah, it gets in the way of a good narrative, but since when has the spittle crowd been more concerned with facts than a good character assassination story?
Rudy-
It's not that it was a gaffe. Those just happen. It's just that it was so simple to avoid. The man just looked lost, couldn't recover, and in the end failed to answer a basic question about his personal finances. Heck.... up until this point he's said, "Cindy and I keep our finances separate," or something to that effect. What kept him from saying something like that this time around?
It was like watching an aircraft in a flat spin.
that MI poll should be great news for Obama going into the convention.
Tied to the new MN poll with a 10% Obama edge and the NM & PA leads plus close NH & NV & FL results he had a good polling day on all levels - well, give McCain KS but who really cares ?
That KS margin was through the roof there though as was LA earlier this week. What is with the RR model right now ? hhhmmm
The reason this wasn't a gaf from McCain, but a serous problem,is that it feeds a narrative already there. Voters are worried about McCain's economic policies. His policies are seen as similar to Bush.
If Mr. Arugala turns McCain into the elitist, and becomes the working class fighter, McCain is in deep s**t. The election will be a referendum on Rich vs. hard working Americans. Now, Obama is hardly the perfect vessel to become a working class hero, but he doesn't have to become one of them, just fighting for them. He's already got the inside track with his middle class tax cuts.
Rudy, the question was not "How many houses do you own?" It was "How many houses do you and Mrs. McCain have?"
Listen to it here: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12685.html
McCain really didn't know. He truly is completely out of touch.
Matt, I do think that Clinton won largely on policy the first time (the fact that Bush I was ideologically opposed to timely and emphatic government intervention at a time of recession, and Clinton called him on it - and also because voters were punishing him for promising not to raise taxes and then flip-flopping) and largely on competence and the lack of a compelling reason to turn him out of office the second time. Sure, Bush being out of touch (Wow! A scanner! Cool!) and reluctant to admit the economy was actually in bad shape also played a part, but it was really because people were hurting that they turned Bush I out of office, don't you think?
Mccain blew it with independents acting like a total jackass neocon at Saddleback and completely undercutting his "maverick" image. Just wait for the next colorado poll. The guy is toast.
The Michigan poll was done by Ann Selzer, who had a good record in the primaries, but hasn't shown up on the general election anywhere beyond her Des Moines Register home poll, as far as I'm aware. Since it's her first poll in Michigan, nothing to calibrate it against.
Interesting that the Freep highlighted in its commentary some ambivalence in the black Christian community because of Obama's positions on gays and abortion. And that's from an Obama leaner.
Obama has the non-Christian vote there locked up at 66-13%.
One McCain voter was quoted as pining for Romney, so that may may be a big crosstab highlight, too.
Rudy,let's hear your spin on why McCain doesn't know how many houses "[he] and Mrs. McCain have."
Saying that he doesn't own the homes is not a good excuse since that wasn't the question.
Jeremy-
Don't forget the Colorado is also the home of Focus on the Family.
John, I understand that was the question, but why should he be expected to know that off the top of his head if it's not in his personal finances?
Plus, it's been a moving target, so even if he knew, he may very well have wanted to make sure he stated it accurately. He did say he'd circle back, not giving an evasive answer.
. . . aaaaaaaand Rudy, having received the latest blast fax from RNC HQ, smoothly drops the goofy losing position on the Houses Gaffe and tells us all we need to know about the new MI poll. Thanks, Rudy!
I for one am relieved to see actual, state-based pollsters chiming in, so we can turn back the narrative from the Ridiculous Rasmussen garbage. Time to weight that Democratic party ID downward again, Scotty! Oh noes!
No Michael, I don't believe that. These elections aren't won on policies. McCain isn't attacking Obama's policies. "He's a celebrity", "He's not ready to lead" ,"He doesn't have the judgment."
If Presidential elections were won on policy, wouldn't McCain, or Bush be more focused on them? No. Because they're won on personal qualities. Bush brought down Kerry and Gore and never touched policies. Bill Clinton went into Bubba mode whenever possible. He's a road scholar and made himself sound like an eighth grade drop out southern hick to win. Now McCain is using personal attacks to bring down Obama.
Obama started today to go after McCain's personal qualities like "Out of touch". Americans already believe Obama has the better policies, and he's losing ground. Attacking McCain personally, good move Obama. Keep it up.
Is Mitt pro-draft too?
McCain on Romney "Never get into a wrestling match with a pig. You both get dirty - and the pig likes it."
Rudy-
Problem 1) Not knowing off the top of his head.
Solution 1) Give a your standard on-message answer. "We keep our finances separate. I own [whatever it is he owns]." It's truthful, and probably not extravagant. The reporter might press, but if he does, crack a joke to shut him down.
Problem 2) Moving target.
Solution 2) Give a vauge answer. Key words to use: "Few", "Couple", "Some". Also truthful. Doesn't give oppo much to work with. The reporter is less likely to press, but you can still crack a joke to shut him down.
I have to agree with "subterranean", this story about McCain not being able to remember how many houses he owns is a game changer. When you put it together with his "POW" story you get:
A Vietnam vet with numerous estates. (?)
It's a disconnect. When all of McCain's AUTHENTICITY is invested in being a "war hero", you assume he's made a NOBLE SACRIFICE.
But when you are told that he wears $500 loafers, he can't keep track of his luxury homes, thinks the poverty line begins at $4,999,999.00 per anum, and his entire staff are LOBBYISTS for FOREIGN INTERESTS... that "war hero" starts to look like...
POLITICAL OPPORTUNIST.
And it really is sort of DUMB that he couldn't keep his mouth shut and come up with a better answer. He seemed to just be saying, "Oh, hell... why do you guys bother me with this silly stuff."
It's the same sort of exasperated image you got of Bush 41 when he looked at his watch in the debate, combined with the COMPLETELY CLUELESS look he gave trying to figure out the bar code scanner at the grocery checkout counter.
Combine all this together with the fact that McCain is turning 72 in a few days, and you have George H. W. Bush in '92, and Bob Dole in '96 all rolled into one.
I'm fully expecting that the Democrats will message this to death from now until the returns from Florida start rolling in on election night.
Here's my amateur effort:
Vote McCain: if his economic RECKLESSNESS causes you to lose your home, maybe he'll let you stay at his place... if he can find it.
Hmm, the number of houses someone owns being a "moving target"? Geez, I wish I had that problem.
Dunno, you're welcome!
All I had to do was follow the Will Rogers analysis method.
Certainly an encouraging bit of news for an Obama campaign sorely in need of a boost.
In the primaries I rooted for McCain to beat Romney. I ended up liking Romney after watching a debate and reading about a Romney joke about a Mormon tenet.
His pluses: May lock MI and NV. Helps in NH. Looks like a President. Smart. Harvard Law grad like Barack. A good debater. Economic expertise.
Good attack dog.
He has downsides but so do all the other options, and they don't have all the upsides he does.
Um, Colorado is only about 2% Mormon. Romney wouldn't help at all there. The Mormons in the west are all concentrated in Utah and, to a lesser extent, Idaho and Wyoming, which Republicans always win anyway.
Rudy said...
"One [MI] McCain voter was quoted as pining for Romney, so that may may be a big crosstab highlight, too."
that is too funny to mention as a talking point !
One voter ? And that voter was already for McCain, so how does that help anyway ?
Faux News put as much of a McCain spin all the bad pollling news today by saying that Georgians [Europe] support McCain as proving
somehow that McCain is trending up... even though their own poll showed no improvement for McCain since last month @ -3%.
Fear & [un]Balanced
and Rove was on giving advice to Obama that the 'houses issue' was a loser for Obama, and beneath his dignity as a candidate for change, so KARL ROVE said Obama would be wise to lay off these attacks on Cindy !
ROFLOL
Mrinsight-
RE: NH
Are you familiar with the term "Masshole"? Romney's effect on NH is probably a coin flip.
Mason, I understand what you're saying, and agree that would have been a better way to handle it.
But, for crying out loud, this is no revelation that McCain had a rich wife and has multiple houses. This isn't the first time the topic's come up, and because it came up again, the "gotcha question" radar had to be going off.
All I'm saying is there are plausible reasons for why he answered the way he did. And that's why it's not going to resonate with people as a gaffe, although it will give people a chuckle or two.
Why the desperation to build a cathedral around it?
Romney is a very mixed bag for McBush. He might help in Michigan, and would definitely help in NV, but running with a Mormon would lose him a boatload of Christian votes in FL, NC, VA, CO, and MO. He could even run into trouble in MS and the Dakotas over it.
Mormons are not accepted as Christians by most Christians, and particularly by the Catholics and the evangelical right wing.
Romney would bring a few strengths, though. One would be money, which would be funneled into 527s like crazy. The Democratic Party is a babe in the woods when it comes to 527s, and would be sitting ducks for that attack, especially given Obama's determination to run for Student Council president rather than president of the United States.
Another would be vigor. Let's face it, anyone voting for McCain will be looking carefully at his veep because McCain has one foot in the grave already. Romney is the picture of strength and would dispel the age issue. If a McCain-Romney ticket is elected and McCain has the good sense not to expire in his first two years, you can be assured of a Republican president until Jan. 20, 2021.
Also, when it comes to the attack dog angle, there is no one better at it than Romney. The only reason he's not the Republican nominee is because the evangelicals mounted a last-ditch effort to block him via Huckabee. Prior to that happening, Romney had just about finished off McCain; he even went so far as to plant fake anti-Mormon phone calls in various states and attribute them to McCain.
Ordinarily, you'd think that a presidential candidate would object to this and not select someone who did that as his running mate, but I've never confused Republicans and principles so it wouldn't surprise me to see McCain do it. Iy he could cozy up to Bush and Falwell and Robertson after what they did to him in 2000, he can cozy up to the Mittster.
If it happens, I think Obama will be in real danger. Ironically enough, it will leave this year's election up to the Christian nutcases, who will be faced with (from their viewpoint) the worst of all choices: A secular liberal black Democrat, vs. a godless Mormon cultist.
Part of me wants to see all of this happen just so I can watch this whole thing get too bizarre for words.
Oh, the other places where Romney's Mormonism will hurt McCain is in OH and IN. It's one of those high risk, high reward picks. If McCain picks Romney, he's either going to win big or lose big.
Sheesh, DCM, it was a short article. They profiled an Obama leaner and a McCain leaner, and those are the stories I passed along. I'm presuming they chose those two because they're representative of the crosstab storyline.
Rove's probably right about what you said he said about the houses. Youse guys get all worked up about him being the manipulative genius, wish that your team would learn some lessons from him, and then ridicule what he says right in public. That just makes for more crying in your beer later.
I'm trying to help you guys see the light, not just take partisan pot shots.
Romney voters are already backing McCain. How exactly would Romney help in MI ?
Because he used to vacation there as a child ? Wonder if he created any mass lay-off in MI.
and in NV ? nonsense, no LDS & besides they are already GOPers. maybe the blackjack dealers will run to vote LDS ?
also very doubtful as a net + in NH as it didn't help him in the primary... although he would be a better VP pick than Huckabee in all three of those states.
but Romney would logically appear to be poison for crucial swing demos in OH & FL & GA & VA & NC & maybe even CO.
I would wager a bet that in those states Romney would help drive up the Barr or Not Voting %'s - just enough to allow Obama to win close.
GO ROMNEY, GO BARR !
Rudy-
It's not a "Gotcha" question. It's too simple to be a gotcha, plus he's been asked that before on the trail and has had reasonable, completely non-noteworthy, answers. It was so easy to avoid an he just walked right into the thresher. That's why it's notable.
What plausible reasons are there other than that he just plain spaced out and had a senior moment? Senior moments resonate with people. Remember when Dole did a little impromptu stage diving? People were talking about a man his age being president for weeks. Being POTUS is a stressful job. Look at Bill Clinton c. 1992 vs. c. 2000. Heck, look at W, a much fitter man, between then and now. It wears out those bold enough to take the job. People do have lingering doubts about old people doing that job, and that is why the Obama campaign is striking.
Lucky for McCain, he did this late in the week before the opposing convention.
Matt, I'm not saying that ALL elections are won on policy! I'm saying that when an incumbent loses a reelection campaign because he refuses to admit there's a recession and even more vehemently refuses to use his Constitutional powers to intervene on behalf of voters who are hurting, he's lost on economics and policy. Sure, Clinton (a former, ahem, Rhodes scholar) had to soft-pedal his intellectualism in a country where "eggheads" are unpopular, but he didn't win the election because he was from Arkansas. He won the election because he had charisma and convinced people that he felt their pain and would act to improve their lives (and then he did, once in office). Government action vs. inaction is a fundamental policy question.
PLUCK,
wow, turned out that my post agreed with yours on Romney impact in the south & midwest states [although I did not list IN as I bet it will stay RED regardless in the end - but close]. If Obama wins IN then the election was a rout !
but GOP would be wise not to presume that southerners will vote for LDS even as VP with an old McCain putting Romney a heartbeat from POTUS...
enough will boycott or vote Barr IMO. CO ? who knows, but I see no plus for Romney in CO.
NH ? who cares really as it would not matter if VA or FL or OH or CO flip, let alone the others.
Faux News put as much of a McCain spin all the bad pollling news today
I was watching Faux yesterday and one of their spokesliars was rattling on about how Bush's popularity ratings had risen from the mid-20s to 30% and how this was good news. I went and checked, and the L.A. Times/Reuters had come in with 25% and Faux's own poll had come in with 28%, the second-lowest rating ever.
Colorado is only about 2% Mormon. Romney wouldn't help at all there. The Mormons in the west are all concentrated in Utah and, to a lesser extent, Idaho and Wyoming, which Republicans always win anyway.
I think CO is more heavily Mormon than that. Besides UT, the Mormons pretty much run ID and NV, and have heavy influence in AZ. They are growing in CO, WY and OR. All that conservative revolt against McCain in Arizona stuff was Mormon-based, stirred up by Romney's people.
Romney voters are already backing McCain. How exactly would Romney help in MI ?
The Romney family is from Michigan. His father, George Romney, was (get this) a liberal Republican pro-civil rights governor there in the 1960s, and very popular. He ran for president in 1968 but dropped out when he gaffed that he had been among those "brainwashed" into supporting the Vietnam War.
So, the betting is that the Romney family name would help in Michigan. I'm pretty skeptical. I think that for every vote he picks up on his name, he's going to lose one for being a Mormon.
OK, Mason, I think we've extrapolated the topic beyond its significance. We'll see how it plays out. There have been and are going to be other senior moments, so unless he turns into a blubbering fool, it doesn't make for a lasting impression other than that he's the wrinkly white dude. Everybody knows that already.
Reagan used to have the periodic senior moment, too, and I remember how the left would get so hoppin' mad at him, and yet he was the most beloved president in the last 40 years.
All of this attention is in lieu of highlighting meaningful policy differences, of which there are plenty to argue about.
I'm trying to help you guys see the light, not just take partisan pot shots.
Obama needs to learn how to take more partisan potshots. Rove's only doing what the Democratic Party used to be masters at doing. I don't blame the Republicans for this stuff. I blame my Democratic Party for losing its fighting instincts.
There have been and are going to be other senior moments, so unless he turns into a blubbering fool, it doesn't make for a lasting impression other than that he's the wrinkly white dude. Everybody knows that already.
Everyone SUSPECTS that McBush is senile, but as long as there's plausible deniability he can skate past that road hazard. It's Obama's job not to let it happen. For a while there, he was doing a great job of bringing it up, by labeling McBush "confused."
Then, suddenly, he dropped that line of attack. I can't understand why. It was just starting to penetrate the public consciousness, and then Obama lost his nerve. Come on, Barack, challenge grandpa to a basketball game or something. Or in those debates, bait the old man until he screams at you to get off his lawn.
PLUCK,
I know the old canard about Gov. Romney. But that was over 40 years ago & most voters in MI do not remember them anyway.
But if Mittens was running on his OLD beliefs like when he was a liberal Gov of MA similar to his father in MI, hell I would consider voting for him !
For a time there Romney was either a big opportunist just to win in MA or else he really was rather progressive.
IMO now he is an evil smiling shill who sold his soul [even worse than McCain 2000] for whatever he has to do to try to be POTUS. I find that pathetic. I would rather have a real REPub hack like Huckabee than a fake one like McCain or Romney...
Reagan took great pains to hide his illness from the public. He wasn't beloved because of his senior moments, if that is what you're implying. They were a hinderance to him, and we only realized to what degree they were a hinderance after his presidency.
But yeah... Nothing to do but wait.
Mason,
gotta disagree on the gipper.
Nancy hid Ronnie's condition - for at least the last 3-4 years [when he was McCain's age].
He was merely a sock puppet & she had her arm so far up his....
well anyway, everyone knows that her astrologer was really making all the decisions for the country anyway.
then she took him back to SoCal & hid him away behind the fences in BelAir.
Not sure if it was the attempted assasination that led to the Alzheimers or if it was just age... or the hair dye & red cheek makeup !
But he was incompetent mentally no doubt, although he could read a prepared speech in his sleep still or recite old memorized talking points with a smile on his senile face...
McCain would be there soon enough ! Then Cindy would be in charge...
I lived out in LA & worked near BelAir [westwood]. Used to on a rare occasion run into the gipper after he returned to LA. It was sad how bad he really was long before Nancy went public...
that is about the only decent thing that witch ever did was to finally admit publicly that he had Alzheimers. but they fooled the country for years
DCM, that's what I'm talkin' about! You'd here crap like that all the time about him. And that was years before he outfoxed the Russians.
BTW, in case you guys haven't been paying attention, lots of money chasing Hillary in the markets in late night trading. She's doubled in price since this morning, and nothing but boxcar bids sitting out there at every stairstep, with nothing for sale. People are bidding less than 6-1 on her now, and have swept everything down to 4-1. A late evening phone call, perhaps?
DCM, I'm not even a Bible-thumpin' Baptist, but I think the Mittster is close enough to the anti-Christ to scare me into reading those Left Behind books. Which, of course, means that he's got to be high on the Republican list.
p.s.: DCM, if Romney's the veep nominee, the media just loves that historical background stuff so they'll be certain to be pounding the Michigan roots theme like crazy.
Believe me, it'll be wacky. I can see it now: "Children of the '60s: Not hippies. A military man who was tortured for his country, and a clean-cut Mormon missionary." I can hear the old Carpenters songs in the background already.
It'll be a plus in Michigan, although the Mormon stuff will be a minus. It'll be the only time in my life where I welcome Baptists with their burnin' crosses. By the time that campaign's over, I'm going to be visiting a spirtual medium to channel Rod Serling and Alfred Hitchcock.
Wasn't it just like a week ago that HUCKABEE said DON'T PICK MITT??? Gee, do you think he might be speaking for the religious right?
Rudy, thanks for moderating your comments. We know that you konw that this is a losing issue and a major gaffe, so your tactic of taking the air out of it in a nonaggressive way is the correct one. Well played.
Romney will hurt in many, many states, as very perceptive posters have pointed out. Think Colorado and Ohio, for starters. Oh, and Florida.
There is one kind of gaffe/fumble/error a candidate can't make. That is the one which reinforces a bad identification already existing for the candidate. When Hillary made up her tales of true adventure in Bosnia, it wasn't just a lie, it was another Clinton lie and you can't trust the Clintons. When Bush I couldn't come up with the price of milk and was mystified by the scanner, a logical person would have pointed out that he spent 12 years in the White House, when would he have seen a supermarket scanner, or the price of anything. But since he was who he was, it was a rich Republican out of touch with the common man.
So when a man who wants to make the tax cuts for the rich permanent and cut estate taxes even further can't remember how many houses he owns, it reinforces the story of out-of-touch with the typical American -- which, of course, he is. That is why the story has resonance.
Of course, the one thing McCain can never say (about anything) is "I don't remember", since he's old and when he doesn't remember something it isn't just forgetting, it's the onset of trouble. Believe me, as someone over 50, every time I forget where I left my keys I assume I'm ten minutes from needing to be put in a home.
It isn't just what you say, it's how the public perceives it in light of who you are.
I think the house gaffe is absolutely devastating for McCain, not because it was a "senior moment", but because it confirms something that many people already believe or have lesser thoughts on about McCain. Those are always the most destructive narratives. A grandson of an Admiral, the son of an Admiral, being raised never wanting for anything, marrying into even more money, handed a cushy job by your father-in-law immediately upon leaving the military, now owning at least seven houses worth 13 million bucks, so many that you forget...add Mitt Romney to that...game-set-match.
Unlike John Kerry, Obama has looked angry the last few days...finally!
Yeah, Romney's Mormonism would be a big vulnerability and was a contributing factor in his losing the primaries.
He would have a lot to answer for a few Mormon beliefs, like polygamy, how Jesus came to America to preach to Native Americans, and how until 1978 dark-skinned people were barred from priesthood.
Huckabee said, "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?"
It's a tough sell to evangelicals and easy fodder for Democrats.
For the record, I heard on CNN (so it has to be true) that Obama said he will announce the VP in Illinois on Saturday.
That means that all the speculation based on where he will be on each day at what time until the Democratic National Convention, is just that - speculation.
Now we just have to find out who has plane tickets to Illinois on Saturday.
Or we could just wait... ;)
PLUCK,
well it would be most interesting & a major distraction for McCain, IMO.
Do No Harm ? Huckabee & friends alone have already assured that one will come...
Nate has yet another new post up this am... more on the Veepstakes for the red-eye crowd
thanks, Nate
x0lani, let's be fair. The mainstream LDS Church (Mormons) renounced polygyny a long time ago. (I prefer the word "polygyny," meaning the practice of having multiple wives, to "polygamy," which could embrace polyandry [multiple husbands], too.) Nowadays, only small sects that the mainstream church considers heretical practice polygyny. So if Romney has to answer for something he and his church don't believe in, that's no more fair than Obama having to answer for ostensibly being a secret supporter of radical Muslim terrorists. And considering that Romney ran against his record, completely, there are so many legitimate things he can be tarred with, in any case.
Michael:
We must be in the same timezone. :)
I'm not saying those kinds of attacks are fair - only that in the minds of many Americans Mormons have foreign beliefs. The only groups with lower approval ratings, in terms of religious affiliation, in America are Muslims and athiests - in that order.
People were uncomfortable with his Mormonism during the primaries and it looks like the politcos have forgotten that.
I can only say that it shows something about the relative level of tolerance in Massachusetts that that very Democratic state with very few Mormons elected a Mormon Republican as Governor. If there are large numbers of registered Republicans who won't vote for McCain because they can't stomach voting for a Mormon VP, and that ends up costing McCain a victory, that would be truly ironic.
The mainstream LDS Church (Mormons) renounced polygyny a long time ago. (I prefer the word "polygyny," meaning the practice of having multiple wives, to "polygamy," which could embrace polyandry [multiple husbands], too.) Nowadays, only small sects that the mainstream church considers heretical practice polygyny. So if Romney has to answer for something he and his church don't believe in, that's no more fair than Obama having to answer for ostensibly being a secret supporter of radical Muslim terrorists.
How quaint to talk about fairness. Yes, it's "unfair" for Obama to have to answer for Muslim this and Muslim that, but we hate a whiner. So, if the Republicans stick a Mormon on their ticket and the Democrats don't raise polygamy as a subject, then they're unilaterally disarming and running for Student Council, and they deserve to lose.
Anyway, while it's true that the Mormons dropped polygamy as part of Utah's deal with the federal government to gain statehood, they didn't completely abandon it. Polygamy is still part of the doctrine; it's simply allowed in the next world, not this one.
And the anti-polygamy rule is honored in the breach. Polygamy is a widespread, open secret throughout Mormon culture, up to and including today's Mormon culture. If McCain picks Romney and if Obama had brains and guts, he'd have surrogates opening up all those polygamy cases in Utah and Texas and splashing them all over the place, and then pointing out that Romney's grandparents were polygamists.
I think the Republican veep choice is much more interesting than the Democratic veep choice. Two reasons: Hillary Clinton's supporters, and McCain's mortality.
If Obama picks Clinton (thereby demonstrating that he's pussy-whipped, which will cause him to lose), then I think he leaves the door wide open for McCain to pick Romney. Why? Because the Nutcases hate Hillary more than they hate Mormons, especially when the Mormon reassures them that he's just as interested as they are in putting women in their place and shoving homos back into the closet.
If Obama picks someone else, then there's the hell-hath-no-fury issue, which Hillary has stoked to a fare-thee-well. It would leave McCain a trail of rose petals straight to Gov. Pallin in Alaska, who is not just a woman but the poster child for a sweet pro-life woman, having recently given birth to a kid with Down's Syndrome. Can't you just see the ads now?
I think Obama's in something of a bind with respect to the veep thing, and that he's delaying this so long because he wants to breeze right by it. He's in what could literally be a no-win situation, especially if he insists on running such a clean-underwear campaign.
No matter who he picks, there'll be a bunch of Democrats branding him an idiot or worse for his choice, and the schedule sets McCain up to have the last word, and therefore the trump card. Combined with Obama's campaign that it weak, disorganized, and uncoordinated, I think at this point it's shaping up to be that golden moment where the Democratic Party once again pisses it all away.
Let's hope I'm just in a bad mood.
+Obama is hardly the perfect vessel to become a working class hero, but he doesn't have to become one of them, just fighting for them. He's already got the inside track with his middle class tax cuts.+
And, of course, the local work he did in Chicago, which is directly relevant.
Toby,
Biden is pretty well-known in Northern VA, not because he's from nearby Delaware, but because DC is a company town. You hear about prominent senators on the local news in the DC-area more than most other places. Politicians show up in the gossip pages, and style and metro of the Washington Post. DC-ites read the Post unlike in NY where the local pop. seems to read the NY Post more than the NY Times.
In defense of McCain - who deserves to lose on the issues and on backlash to his morphing into a typical Republican lowest common denominator attack dog idiot - wealthy Americans don't know how many houses they own. It's because of US tax laws, which provide attractive loopholes for the extremely rich. How many of their seven homes are in trusts, QPRTs and other exotic tax-dodging vehicles? If you don't own the home in the eyes of Uncle Sam, AND you don't spend more than a week or two a year at the home, does it count? It gets messy.
wealthy Americans don't know how many houses they own. It's because of US tax laws, which provide attractive loopholes for the extremely rich. How many of their seven homes are in trusts, QPRTs and other exotic tax-dodging vehicles? If you don't own the home in the eyes of Uncle Sam, AND you don't spend more than a week or two a year at the home, does it count? It gets messy.
Wow, cry me a river. Seriously, this reminds me of the time I bitched about ATMs not dispensing bigger bills than 20s. The guy I was talking to looked at me and said "POTR."
"POTR?" I replied.
"Yeah, POTR," he said. "Problems of the Rich." I never complained about 20s again.
I can't believe that all of you seem to be assuming that Halperin actually knows that Romney is the VP choice. McCain's campaign hasn't necessarily shown that it is as tightly run and disciplined as Obama's, but they aren't amateurs. It's more than possible that this is just a trial balloon to gauge reaction. Or a misdirection. And even if he has decided on Romney, he could easily change his mind.
Every time I hear that McCain's considering Romney for his running mate, I can't help but think of the Far Side cartoon that has trail of arrows drawn by a dog leading into the dryer with the words "CAT FUD" next to them. Also Admiral Ackbar.
The problem wasn't primarily that the McCains own so many houses, it's that John McCain didn't know how many he had, and said he'd have to check with his staff! It's not just that he's rich, it's that it reinforces a sort of hands-off management style, reminiscent of Bush, and a cavalier attitude toward money. I don't think large segments of the electorate have a problem with rich people. They have a problem with people who are cavalier about money. And that's what McCain walked into.
I bet if Romney had been asked the question last week, he would have given a definite answer. Yes, for people that rich the answer would have been tricky, and Romney is not always the most up-front guy about his personal affairs, but he probably could have managed something like: "I have my primary residence in X, and a vacation home in Y. I also have some investment properties" or something like that.
So I'd argue that this actually reinforces the need for McCain to pick a "numbers" guy like Romney. If he picks someone without a lot of money who also doesn't seem to understand his or her own financial affairs, that's actually worse.
McBush Flip and Romney Flop great combination.
McBush needs major help in MI. Obama up by 7 in latest poll.
McBush is toast after his "I can't remember how many homes I own" gaffe when so many Americans are losing their only home. How 'bout McBush house some of the homeless vets in all those homes he does not use?
I wonder if Romney knows how many homes he owns? I bet he does.
But don't ask him how many American jobs he outsourced.
"Romney's . . .strength in Western states with high LDS concentrations make him a demographically smart pick."
How many times does this NONSENSE have to be rebutted? Colorado has 2.1% Mormons, slightly higher than Jewish voters (1.7%) and you don't hear anybody talk about picking Lieberman in order to shore up McCain's Rocky Mountain Jewish vote!
It's less than African American Baptists, and about as many as Buddhists and Episcopalians combined.
You want to know what's a significant denominational group that's up for grabs? Catholics. 17.5% in Colorado, or FOUR TIMES THE SIZE OF THE MORMON VOTE!
LDS voters are almost all Republicans here anyway. Obama won't get more than maybe 3-5% of them. So, picking Romney will have almost ZERO impact in Colorado.
If he increased his support among Mormons by 10% (probably impossible, since they are over 90% for McCain already) then he'd gain .02% increase in the popular vote.
He'd do better appealing more to Hispanics.
What about New Mexico, Nevada and Montana, the other Rocky Mountain states that might conceivably be battlegrounds?
Montana: 3.6%. It might actually help McCain there, if Montana Mormons weren't already supporting him at least as much as other Republicans, which they are.
New Mexico: 2.3%, which is less than Buddhists, Muslims and Jews combined. You don't hear a lot about picking a Muslim or a Jewish VP in order to pander to those voters!
You know what the BIGGEST Western denomination of all in the West is?
NONE!
"Except Mormon Utah, where religiously unaffiliated or uncounted persons account for only 23.5 percent of the total population, and Catholic New Mexico, where the religiously unaffiliated or uncounted account for only 36.8 percent of the total population, at least half the total population in the other states in the Mountain West is religiously unaffiliated or uncounted. The precise percentages are: Arizona, 56; Colorado, 54.9; Montana, 52.9; Wyoming 50.6; and Idaho 50."
Source:
http://www.religionatlas.org/religion_region
/ROCKYMOUNTAINWEST/colorado.htm
No religious affiliation means not regular church-goers.
When you see those surveys about how lots of Americans still attend church "at least once a week" and that these voters are reliably Republicans (except for Black church-goers)?
Well that's in the South, not here. In Colorado most don't bother. And there are 27 times more NON-Church-goers than Mormons!
I have to agree with Sean. Romney has always struck me as too patrician. I was never a big fan in the primaries and rooted for McCain over him when it came down to that.
I think he is smart and likeable enough (like Hillary?) for a multi-millionaire and he is not quite the elitist Brahmin that John Kerry is, but he's got that flavor.
I think his expertise on the economy is real, but whether he can bring that across to the voters remains to be seen.
I think it was in the Fox News Poll (say what you want, but they ask the best questions!) that had one-third of the respondents saying that Mormons are not Christians. And you thought Obama had problems with his faith!
I have long thought Rob Portman would be an ideal choice for McCain.
Portman has a long history of national service for a man who I don’t believe is quite yet 50. He was a Congressman from Ohio and Director of OMB and US Trade Representative. He can speak cogently and convincingly on the economic issues that will dominate the campaign and will provide a powerful rationale for McCain’s pro-trade bias. A bias that, by the way, is in line with the interests of one in five American workers. That he was associated with the Bush Administration is a minor distraction. His own humble Midwestern charisma and his popularity within Ohio will quell much of that. He is from rural south east Ohio where all those anti-Obama Appalachians live.
Portman will also be aided by the coming re-assessment of Bush’s Presidency. As things have improved on Iraq, as gas prices fall (due to the growing impetus to drill?), and the economy continues to show signs of picking up, Bush’s standing may get a second look.
I think Portman would add gravitas on important non-foreign policy issues while burnishing the ticket’s appeal to values based voters.
Wow, how rattled is the McCain camp by the houses gaffe?
Consider the furious, irrational, panicky response.
Within the first 12 hours they tried to distract with:
a.) the POW defense
b.) some fake anthrax letters
c.) a scatty "Rezko, Ayers, Daley, he owns a mansion too!" kind of attack
d.) a "Romney's our VP" leak
When this continues into the convention along with a triumphal Dem VP rollout, heads will explode across the country.
Boom! Boom! Boom! Splat...
(that last one was Pete Kent.)
pluckon, any Democrats openly associating Romney with polygamy would be tarred and feathered. At most, that kind of libel would have to be expressed in an anonymous email screed.
Michael, the operative word is "openly." The Republicans have become masters at not doing things "openly." You seem to not recall that Bush disassociated himself with the Swiftboaters, and disavowed all knowledge of the "black baby" attacks on McCain.
cugel, Mormons have very high turnout and they vote as a bloc to a far greater degree than any other religious ground, even the evangelicals. It magnifies their numbers. They control UT and ID, and are very influential in WY, NV, and AZ.
They are starting to be influential in some races in MT and OR, and they were the motive force on the gay marriage ballot questions in HI and CA. Oh, and remember the MX missile system that got killed in the 1980s? The Mormons did that. Happened to be a position I agreed with, but it had nothing to do with the environment or disarmament. Mormon Inc. decided it was bad for business.
p.s.: Both of NV's senators are Mormons, and AZ's top officeholders are often Mormons.
DCM-
I'm afraid I don't quite understand what exactly you're disagreeing with me over.
We both agree that Reagan was ill during the last 4-6 years of his presidency. I'm just saying that I disgree with Rudy's assertion that Reagan's senior moments had anything positive to do with his legacy.
Rudy-
For God's sake.... The Soviet system mostly collapsed under its own weight. They'd had stagnant economic growth since the late 60s. You can't attribute the collapse to Reagan just because he was there when it happened.
pluckon said:
Michael, the operative word is "openly." The Republicans have become masters at not doing things "openly." You seem to not recall that Bush disassociated himself with the Swiftboaters, and disavowed all knowledge of the "black baby" attacks on McCain.
Actually, I do remember that. But I doubt the Democrats could easily survive even the SUSPICION that they were involved with a polygamy-based attack on Romney. If it were done by extremist Evangelicals no-one really thought were associated with the Obama campaign or the Democratic Party, that would be different. I do think that Democrats are held to a different standard on these kinds of things, party because a very large number of rank and file Democrats tend to be opposed to all forms of religious prejudice.
Just to respond to a couple of points mentioned above:
(1) AFAIK as someone who has lived here, the Mormon church is not a presence in Oregon politics. Yes, Gordon Smith is LDS, but it is mentioned more as a bit of trivia, not as a reason to vote or against him. (I won't discuss those.) For them to have an influence, they'd need to move more to the center in their objectives (e.g., work to promote the environment).
(2) About Reagan's mental abilities: there is some reason to suspect that he never was at 100% for most of his presidency. When he was shot 69 days into his presidency, Reagan was 70 years old; older people don't recover from a trauma like that as well as younger people. Even if in excellent physical shape, they often aren't as sharp mentally afterwards. (I've witnessed this in a few older people.)
Geoff
I can not believe that in 2008 so many people are so ignorant about Mormon beliefs. What rock did you just crawl out from under? They are the nicest group of people I have ever met. What bigots to say that Romney should not be selected as VP because he is a mormon. Those are the same people who have no problem that Obahma sat in a hate filled church for 20 years. I would suggest you visit a mormon church and find out what really goes on before you spout off your ignorance. Or you could ask a mormon what they believe. What a novel idea.I have never heard of any political canidate being disqualified because of their religion. What is that all about? Most canidates are never even asked about their religion. Why is Romney being singled out? I think it is unfair to assume that evangelicals will not support Romney. If they are true christians they will not disqualify him because of his religion. Come on you guys. Ripping some one apart because of their religion. Can't you do better than that?
Despite the Dems and the allied main stream media’s desperation to see Romney as McCain’s Veep, Mitt is clearly out, with (1) Obama doubling down on the class warfare theme (McCain’s 7 houses) and (2) McCain doubling down with ads showing the hypocrisy of Biden attacking Obama in the primaries — Romney did way more than that contra McCain.
This leaves only Govs Sarah Palin and Tim Pawlenty. Pro-abortion Ridge and Dem-Lieberman were never real considerations, despite relentless media goading. Pawlenty’s lackluster TV performances, coupled with Palin pizzazz, the primacy of oil drilling and the ticked off women/Hillary voters, does now portend a McCain/Palin checkmate on the Dems. This is so albeit the Dems and liberal media dare not mention Palin’s name, that is, everyone but…..
And if there’s any question as to Palin being uniquely positioned and able to more than nullify Biden in debate, see the excellent discussion at palinforvp.blogspot.com
Team McCain, well done!!!
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