8.11.2008

The Persistent Myth of the Bradley Effect

Many commentators -- the preponderance of them conservative but also some liberals -- take it as an article of faith that the current polling numbers overstate Barack Obama's position because of the so-called Bradley Effect: the notion that some material number of voters will lie about their intentions to pollsters, claiming that they will vote for a black candidate when in fact they will vote for the white guy.

A fairly typical example comes in the form of a blind quote from a Democratic strategist this morning at The Politico:

A huge challenge for Obama, insiders say, is simply determining how much skin color will matter in November. Race is nearly impossible to poll – no one ever says “I’m a racist” – and no campaign wants it revealed they are even asking questions on the issue.

“It’s the uncertainty that kills me – we know it’s going to be factor, but how big a factor?” asks a Democratic operative with ties to the Obama camp. “How do you even measure such a thing?"
Is there really so much uncertainty as this "operative" implies? Black candidates run races every cycle for the Congress and for the Governor's Mansion, and academics have spent copious time dissecting those results. And while we've never before had a major party nominate a black man for President, we did just finish an exceptionally competitive primary campaign in which a black candidate ran against an extremely popular white candidate with more than 35 million voters participating.

As we have described here before, polling numbers from the primaries suggested no presence of a Bradley Effect. On the contrary, it was Barack Obama -- not Hillary Clinton -- who somewhat outperformed his polls on Election Day.

The table below reflects 31 states in which at least three separate polls were released within 14 days of that state's primary or caucus. We compare the final trendline estimate from Pollster.com against the actual results from that state:



On average, Barack Obama overperformed the Pollster.com trendline by 3.3 points on election day.

There are some important differences by region. Using regions as defined by the US Census Bureau, Barack Obama overperformed his polls by an average of 7.2 points in the South. This effect appears to be most substantial in states with larger black populations; I have suggested before that it might stem from a sort of reverse Bradley Effect in which black voters were reluctant to disclose to a (presumed) white interviewer that they were about to vote for a black candidate.

Obama also outperformed his polls in the Midwest and the West (although there is not much data to go on in the latter case). The one region where Hillary Clinton overperformed her numbers was in the Northeast, bettering the pre-election trendline by 1.8 points. Recall that the Bradley Effect phenomenon describes covert rather than overt manifestations of racism. It may be that in the Northeast, which is arguably the most "politically correct" region of the country, expressions of racism are the least socially acceptable, and that therefore some people may misstate their intentions to pollsters. By contrast, in the South and the Midwest, if people are racist they will usually be pretty open about it, and in the West, which is nation's most multicultural region, there may be relatively little racism, either expressed or implicit.

The good news for Barack Obama is that, among the Northeastern states, only New Hampshire appears to be competitive -- and Obama would gladly trade a Bradley Effect in New Hampshire for a reverse Bradley Effect in a state like North Carolina. (Pennsylvania, it should be noted, is also defined by the Census Bureau as being in the Northeast, but in terms of political demography, it shares far more in common with the Midwest).

So why do we keep hearing so much about the Bradley Effect? Apart from the fact that it is a good way to fill column space on a slow news day, it seems that there are three or four reasons why the myth perpetuates itself:

1. Misunderstanding the Bradley Effect. Denying the existence of the Bradley Effect does not mean denying that some people vote on the basis of race. I have no doubt that some people will vote against Barack Obama because he is black. Indeed, I suspect that almost all of us either know such people, or know people who know them (friends and relatives of friends). I also have no doubt, by the way, that some people will vote for Barack Obama because he is black.

But the Bradley Effect is not an argument about whether people vote based on race. It's an argument about whether people will lie to pollsters. So long as race-based voters are honest about their intentions, Barack Obama's position is no worse than it appears to be in the polls.

2. Confusing Past with Present. There is fairly strong academic evidence that the Bradley Effect used to exist back in the 1980s and early 1990s. However, the evidence is just as strong that it does not exist any longer. The people who vouch for the existence of the Bradley Effect are not wrong so much as they are relying on dated evidence.

3. Confusing Exit Polls with pre-Election Polls. Unlike the normal, pre-election polls, exit polls conducted on the day of the election did substantially overstate Barack Obama's margins throughout the primaries. This is something to keep in mind at about 5 PM on November 4, when Matt Drudge and Jim Geraghty begin to leak exit poll results. It is not anything to worry about now, when we are trying to forecast the outcome from pre-election polling.

Nor is it clear the the discrepancies in the exit polls have anything to do with race; John Kerry, somewhat infamously, also underperformed his exit polls. The mechanics of conducting an exit poll are rather haphazard, involving a bunch of college kids and temp workers running around outside a polling place with clipboards and attempting to pass out survey forms to every Nth voter who leaves the ballot booth. This is not much easier than it sounds, and introduces a lot of human error and other forms of sample bias. For this reason, exit polls are not really intended to be used as they so frequently are in the panicked hours before ballot counting begins -- the results need to be calibrated and weighted, and exit polling firms rely on comparing their polls against actual voting results in order to do so.

4. Cherry Picking Results. The notion of the Bradley Effect gained a lot of currency after the New Hampshire primary, when Hillary Clinton did much better than anyone expected and won the state. However, the 8.9-point gap separating the pre-election polls and the actual results in New Hampshire represented only the seventh-largest error in the primaries. There were bigger discrepancies in Iowa, South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, Wisconsin and Mississippi, all of which favored Barack Obama. These discrepancies did not receive as much attention as New Hampshire because they did not change the outcome of the election. But mathematically speaking, they were just as important.

A related phenomenon is that the media often cherry-picks polling results within a given state. The Zogby poll that had Barack Obama ahead by 13 points in California received widespread attention; the SurveyUSA result that had Clinton 10 points ahead did not. Over the course of the primaries, polling results that had Barack Obama performing well generally made for better copy, since until at least mid-February, Obama was considered the underdog. But an informed reading of the polls, such as the Pollster.com method, reveals that Clinton did not overperform in states like California and Ohio nearly so much as the media tried to imply.

102 comments

Andy said...

Although there was no evidence of the Bradley Effect during the Democratic primaries, that may have been because the sort of people who vote in Democratic primaries are less likely to exhibit it than other voters.

Evan said...

The only slight issue with your analysis is that a primary is not a general election, and that the Bradley Effect may be minimal among the Democratic party (a group that contains the preponderance of blacks, supporters of affirmative action, and etc.) but not minimal among the electorate at large.

You might test this by looking at results like Deval Patrick's or Harold Ford's senate race. It'd be imperfect (as they're not national races and too small a sample to be statistically relevant) but it might give some indication.

Nate said...

Evan,

People have in fact looked at races like Patrick/Ford/etc. and concluded that there was no evidence of a Bradley Effect.

Darío said...

I´m not sure of the Bradley effect if Lieberman was the McCain´s veep.

Nate said...

Andy,

Maybe, but you'd think the people who would be most inclined to lie to pollsters would be people who are "supposed" to vote for Barack Obama in the first place, e.g. core Democratic voters.

emperorwillis said...

I agree with the above. The numbers you site are all from the democratic primary where voters tend to be less racist (I have no proof of this of course, just anectodal evidence).

Also, while the Bradley effect may be on the outs in local races, this is the first national campaign with a black candidate. Add to that the desperation of the opposition and its a good bet the race will be a central theme. So while the Bradley effect may not be what it once was, we may see a concerted effort on the part of the republicans to actually bring it back.

Herunar said...

The commentators above aren't reading. To quote Nate, "the Bradley Effect phenomenon describes covert rather than overt manifestations of racism." That's why the Bradley effect is much more likely to appear in the Democratic primaries than in, say, the Republican primaries or the general election. Same reason why the Bradley effect seems to appear in the Northeast.

Cass said...

I don't see a rationale for the Bradley effect in this election. Why would someone need to lie about who they intended to vote for because they're afraid of being seen as racist, or suddenly discover their latent racism in the voting booth? There are plenty of socially acceptable excuses for Democrats and Independents to say they prefer McCain over Obama: the experience factor, the wartime factor, etc.

Also, I beg to differ that people from the South, where I grew up, are open about admitting their racism. Maybe the rednecks would, but in my experience more subtle levels of racism exist in all the demographics there. I know educated and otherwise intelligent people who justify their beliefs with such things as "Well anyone can see they are more likely to be rapists and thieves. Our jails are full of them!" Think Pat Buchanan. He may be many things, but you can't say he's unintelligent (well maybe you can but I would disagree). Does he consider himself a racist? Of course not! Does he hold clearly racist views? You bet!

sugerfunk said...

Maybe, but you'd think the people who would be most inclined to lie to pollsters would be people who are "supposed" to vote for Barack Obama in the first place, e.g. core Democratic voters.

I would agree that Republicans wouldn't feel the need to lie about not voting for the black Democrat -- but what about Independents? These people may feel the pressure to say they were voting for the history-making candidate, even if they were privately afraid to do so. It is those cases in which I fear the Bradley Effect may materialize.

Juris said...

Nate, I think you might have added another explanation for the persistence of the Bradley Effect myth explicitly to your list: Hope andd Faith.

A lot of people just don't want to think Obama is as competitive in this race as the polls show him to be. And when facts clash with hope and faith, the facts may give way. There's always the "N'th reason" why there must be a Bradley effect despite all the evidence contradicting it; or there's always one by-election to cherry pick to "prove" the Bradley Effect exists. And those with hope and faith are going to find or invent that reason until election day provides the definitive evidence.

Continue to Spread the Word!!! said...

Listen you have some power to say what you want to help out Barack since you probably get 10,000 visitors on your site each day, if not more. But c-mon man, there is a difference between ALL voters and democrats.

African Americans go to the Dems 90% of the time, this time around 95% of the time, that contributes to the polling. You also must figure in the youth vote that came out. And hell did we forget about those PUMA voters that will not be going to Obama, and perhaps due to race???

I know you are in the tank for Obama Nate, but you can try to play down the Bradley Effect, but those on the right and left realize this election will come down to race, especially in the states of Ohio and Florida.

jsh1120 said...

Nate,

A very worthwhile analysis. Congrats. And I'd echo the other comments here that some posters seem to be confusing an overt unwillingness to vote for an AA candidate with the so-called "Bradly/Wilder" effect.

In that context, it's worth noting that overt racism is a stronger predictor of anti-Obama attitudes among Democrats than among Republicans. (See Pew Research surveys earlier this year.) That's not surprising if one recognizes that Republicans have ample rationalization for viewing Obama negatively whether they share negative attitudes toward African Americans, or not.

TJB said...

Democrat Party primaries are hardly the place to study the Bradley effect.

General elections, where Republicans and Independents also always vote, is where the Bradley Effect has been noted in the past.

Citizen Grim said...

"Democrat Party primaries are hardly the place to study the Bradley effect.

General elections, where Republicans and Independents also always vote, is where the Bradley Effect has been noted in the past."


False. New Hampshire this past January is just one example.

And let's not even get started on the number of black Republicans who have been undermined by their white Democratic opponents. How dare they be so "uppity" as to forsake the Democratic big tent?

If you ask me, all Democrats owe reparations for their complicity in slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow laws, etc. It makes at least as much sense as demanding reparations from any other group.

John Nail said...

The major point Nate made here has nothing to do with Dems or Repubs. The point was that exit polls is where the Bradley effect was measured NOT compared to scientific pre election polling.

Remember how fickle exit polls are - Kerry was measuring White House drapes mid afternoon and lost....

Nate - as always a good, astute analysis.

Your comments on region are right on. The Northeast is very racist though "PC" here in Atlanta you know where people stand as in most of the south....

When I hear people talking about Obama they are using code words for race, an easy one is "inexperienced" that way they don't have to confront some bias, same as "different".....

PeteKent said...

Andy and Evan among the first posters above made my point: the Bradley Effect would be less likely to manifest itself in Democrat primaries. As importantly the uniqueness of the Obama candidacy renders nugatory the predictive value of prior contests as a means of demonstrating that the effect is gone.

Also, I seem to recall Mrs. Clinton's 10 pt victory in OH and also her large wins in PA and TX not being on the radar screen, even if they might have been muted by some trend line analysis or some such that Nate is using to justify his argument.

I think the effect has become masked in the general election campaign largely by the conduct of Obama and his team who cry racism and foul at every turn and are demonizing objections to his candidacy. While ultimately this is a failing strategy, it will result in a polling problem that will become manifest on Election Day when McCain seems to outperform his final numbers by 3 to 8 percent.

eve said...

Thanks for the analysis of the primaries Nate. For those who doubt Nate and the numbers from the primary:

A 2008 study of 133 gubernatorial and Senate elections from 1989 to 2006 found that the effect had largely disappeared by the mid-1990s. It concluded that "As racialized rhetoric about welfare and crime receded from national prominence in the mid-1990s, so did the gap between polling and performance."

http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~dhopkins/wilder13.pdf

Dash Riprock said...

It's funny to see a number of the comments stamping their feet and saying "There is TOO a Bradley effect!"

One possible alternative explanation for the inaccuracy of the polling numbers compared to the actual results is the turnout. Pollsters seem to not have a good handle on measuring who's going to show up. That "reverse Bradley" might actually occur in a lot of states in the fall if African Americans and enthusiastic Democrats show up to the polls. It could be that the current polls in the race are actually undermeasuring Obama's lead.

Nick said...

@Continue to Spread the Word!!!

Do you understand what the Bradley Effect is?
PUMA's are the first to declare that they will never vote for Obama. The Bradley Effect would be someone telling a pollster they will vote for Obama but then not vote for him because of his race. So no, PUMAs do not contribute to the Bradley Effect.

Juris said...

Nate, I think the responses to your article are perfect evidence of the "Hope and Faith" explanation for persistence of the Bradley Effect Myth.

And it appears that "Hope and Faith" is the last resort of the side that's down in the competition at the moment. The Bradley Effect is their own voodoo moment, deus ex machina, messianic intervention. The facts are too tough to deal with. But their faith will carry them through.

BTW/ the Tigers will get to the playoffs. I just know it! They're the best team in the AL Central. "Too far out," you say? Eight games behind? What kind of "facts" are those? I have faith in the Tiges. It ain't over til it's over. Ain't that the truth?

sdf said...

Why would someone need to lie about who they intended to vote for because they're afraid of being seen as racist, or suddenly discover their latent racism in the voting booth? There are plenty of socially acceptable excuses for Democrats and Independents to say they prefer McCain over Obama: the experience factor, the wartime factor, etc.

Exactly right. There is no reason to lie to a pollster out of fear of seeming racist, especially not on the phone before the election. If it showed up at all, as Nate notes, it would be in the exit polls, when people are actually face to face with pollsters.

But as evidenced in the comments already, the idea that Obama's support is overstated due to the now mythical Bradley Effect is, as Atrios puts it, one of those Zombie Lies that Will Not Die.

Darío said...

Rasmussen Reports gives Obama 48- McCain 46 with leaners. Without leaners is 45-43 (Obama wins).

Nick said...

Hopefully this will shut PeteKent up, but I doubt it.

thatmarvelousape said...

Thank you, Nate. The Bradley Effect (I prefer to call it 'the Bradley Excuse') is pop psychology at its worst, and it's nice to have a more authoritative source putting this vacuous consultant-speak to rest.

thatmarvelousape said...

It's also worth noting that automated surveys done by Rasmussen, SUSA, and PPP destroy the entire underpinning of the myth, since the entire conjecture is based on the notion that people will lie if confronted by another human being about their political preference.

Also, in my time phonebanking in the south, I discovered that many African-Americans, particularly older African-Americans, would not admit their political preference over the phone, even if you identify yourself as a volunteer for the Obama campaign. We see this in a lot of polls where there seems to be a strangely high number of African-American undecideds, and this, I think, could explain why Obama tends to outperform the polls in the South. But obviously, this is just a conjecture and not a provable phenomenon.

Andy said...

Probably the most likely kind of voters to exhibit the Bradley Effect are the those who voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996 in states like Kentucky, Tennessee and Lousiana but who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004.

thatmarvelousape said...

It's irrelevant anyway. After all, Wilder won Virginia and that was when the state was a deep hue of red, not the purple we see today.

Mason said...

Andy-
"Probably the most likely kind of voters to exhibit the Bradley Effect are the those who voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996 in states like Kentucky, Tennessee and Lousiana but who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004."

This is possible, but if the don't lie to pollsters about it and then vote on the sole basis of race, it's not the Bradley Effect.

STepper said...

(My first post. Great site)

Many commentators said the Bradley Effect could be reflected in the caucus results, where Obama did better (supposedly) than the polling indicated. Whereas he did worse in ballot states.

I think you have exposed the flaw in these seat-of-the-pants observations. As an Obama backer I hope that his better performance in the caucuses was due to his superior on-the-ground organization and attention to detail. Hillary, it appears, did not take the caucus states seriously, thinking it would all be over by Super Tuesday night.

Cugel said...

You have to look at the entire rationale for the "Bradley Effect" to realize that it's pure urban myth!

For the Bradley Effect to exist, the voter must feel EMBARRASSED to tell the pollster his real preference.

Why would he lie? The only reason would be if he's confronted with a dilemma.

1. The Black candidate is "obviously better" and there's significant social pressure to vote for him.

2. The white candidate is seen as an "unacceptable alternative" so the voter can't publicly express a preference for him without seeming "racist."

Notice that if the White guy is an acceptable alternative, then the voter can vote for him in good conscience - no reason to lie.

In this case, McCain is running a close race. If the race was a blowout and the general consensus in the media was that McCain was just an old idiot war-monger (i.e. the truth) then the voter might be in a bind.

The perception that Obama had a huge would also lend social pressure to support him (i.e. most people are -- why aren't you?).

But the race is close and will probably be close right until the end. Millions of people are supporting McCain and they have lots of reasons why:

1. He's a "war hero"."
2. He's "more experienced."
3. He's all "Mavericky."
4. He's the "straight talk" guy.
5. He's the "fiscal conservative."
6. He "won't raise taxes."
7. He'll "win the war."
8. And this one really is the key absolution for racists: "He seems more like a regular guy like me" or "I'd rather have a beer with McCain than Obama." "I just feel more comfortable with McCain."

See how this leaves an out for racists? McCain is always going to be the "regular guy" -- he's the traditional old white guy. If you don't feel comfortable inviting blacks to your home, then how can Obama win that test? He can't.

I'm sure I left out at least a dozen more major reasons people have for voting McCain.

How hard is it for voters to simply say "Obama is untested?" Why lie about it?

filistro said...

Watch closely, sports fans. I'm about to perform the Reverse Double Bradley, with a degree of difficulty of 3.8!

I think (after many selfless hours doing anthropological field work among the Freepers) that a not-insignificant number of Repulican voters falsely tell pollsters they intend to vote for John McCain when they secretly intend to leave their paw print for Obama.

They have three reasons for this....

1.)they genuinely loathe John McCain. His position on immigration, opposition to the Bush tax cuts, frequent "reaching across the aisle"... it just drives them berserk with hatred.

2.) Many of them WANT to lose. They have a romantic yen to spend a few years in the wilderness restructuring their party, killing all their wimpy dissidents and restoring iron-jawed ideological purity.

3.) They secretly are as fascinated with Obama as everyone else, and want to see how he'll cope with the hellish mess that W has wrought.

But what is even more embarrassing for a Republican than telling a pollster he's not voting for the black guy? Telling a pollster he's voting for a Democrat!

So there you have it. The very difficult Reverse Double Bradley... and virtually no splash on entry, either :-)

dtm33bb said...

Not only do I agree about the comments about NH's polling not being the Bradley Effect, but this is what I hear from friends and family there: when you are a democratic voter and you receive 5-10 political calls PER DAY (no joke), people are less apt to speak to pollsters or campaigns. I think the pre-election polls were more indicative of a likely caucus outcome in NH because the polls registered more enthusiasm for Obama. That isn't a Bradley Effect, that is people pushing away the process and just voting for Clinton. You take NH out of the sample and the northeast is flat in the trendlines.

Cugel said...

BTW: I should add that the Bradley Effect can only exist if the voter cannot rationalize TO HIMSELF a reason to oppose Obama or support McCain.

Reasons don't have to make any sense. Racists don't have to look far this election season:

Actual excuses I've heard from racists I know:

"I heard Obama's secretly a Muslim!"

"I heard that Obama is related to Osama Bin Laden."

"I heard that Obama went to school in a Madrassa!"

"If Obama is elected all the blacks will be on welfare."

These people would NEVER admit "I'm just an ignorant racist!" With excuses like these they don't have to!

Does it matter if all the above are lies? Not if the people CHOOSE to believe them.

Since humans are experts at rationalization finding an excuse usually is not a problem. All the voter has to do is invent some reason to dislike Obama, or to prefer McCain that doesn't explicitly involve race.

AJ said...

Do you think it is possible that a reverse effect could happen because the Pollsters may calculate the numbers based on previous data about African-American voters and younger voters being less likely to vote? If this effect is lessened this year, then polls may understate Obama's actual numbers.

NC moderate said...

I suspect a reverse Bradley effect will kick in as disenchanted Republicans will vote Obama while agreeing openly with the usual GOP lies about Obama and saying they voted for McCain.

Matthew H said...

Yep, the Wilder effect should be stronger than the Bradley effect. People in heavily Republican areas aren't going to admit that they'd vote for a...Democrat.

T. Boone Pickens was asked who he was going to vote for in the election. He said he'd vote for McCain...his grandparents were Republicans, his parents were Republicans, and he didn't want to have to explain when he got to heaven why he voted for a Democrat.

When he's in the booth, I don't know who he's going to pick, but I know what he'll tell the pollster!

JohnNYC said...

Interesting and possibly compelling. however, a thought.

I wonder if "race" isn't becoming more important as the campaign advances.

I did a simple (i.e., no attention to: the two methodologies, caucus vs. primary states, Standard Errors, numbers of voters in different states, Sample Sizes--which, in my defense, were not accounted for by the author either) analysis of the data provided and divided the given 31 states into three groups:

A: Those which voted before and on February 5th (17 of the sample states)

B: Those which voted in the rest of February (after Feb 5) and in March (eight of the sample)

C: Those which voted in April, May or June (six).

The results:

A: Average Variance = Obama +3.5 points

B: Average Variance = Obama +2.2 points

C: Average Variance = Obama +1.6 points

My conclusion?

The data are inconclusive. The variance still skews in Obama's direction, but the average variance in the last six states is less than half of that of the first 17.

However, there are too many other explanatory factors (see my initial caveats) that are not taken into account to read too much into either the author's or my analyses. Both are "back of the envelope."

However, I don't think that Obama should take too much comfort from the original analysis when the trendline is also taken into account.

For another view on this, I recommend Charles Blow's Op Ed, "Racism and the Race," in Saturday's New York Times.

(link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/opinion/09blow.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=charles%20blow&st=cse&oref=slogin)

Virginia Conservative said...

Seven Worry Signs for Barack Obama:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12433.html

All the liberals crowing about the imminent Obama blowout should give that a read.

ttylertexas said...

Don't discount the white voters who will vote for Obama but tell their friends they didn't out of a concern about being stigmatized by their more conservative friends and neighbors. Call it a reverse Bradley efect unsless you can come up with something more clever.

Argentinatraveler said...

Nate great site, best way to follow the US elections in a glance, and one of your best articles. Hope you send it to a newspaper!

In past posts, many commentators have wondered if the cellphone-only voter effect, voters not captured in Rasmussen type polls (+3 Obama) are balanced by the Bradley effect (-3 Obama). I think this post lays that argument to rest. Obama has a small national lead, within the margin of error, but would win the electoral vote count if the election were held today.

Aaron said...

The other huge possibility -- flaws in likely voter modeling, especially in the south.

We know Obama's campaign turned out young and minority voters in record numbers. Since most pollsters base their LV models on previous voting patterns, it would follow that they missed a huge chunk of voters who voted in their first presidential primary.

The question is whether those LV models will get better in the general election.

DarienCrow said...

The two huge facts about this topic that I notice:

1) Pollster is as accurate as Stevie Wonder shooting Trap

2) Just look at all those states that Clinton won! That's a lot of people that didn't fall for the Obama effect.

MrInsight22 said...

The historical Bradley/Wilder/Dinkins effect applies in GENERAL ELECTIONS only -- it is not a phenomenon ever observed by academics in Democratic primaries. So we don't know how it will play out in Novemeber based on the primaries.

humanist said...

We should build a new terminology here.

I suggest to use "Bradley effect" for an empirical effect, i.e. the tendency (if it exists) of a black candidate to underperform his or her polls.

There are various theories out there trying to explain the Bradley effect (which may or may not exist today in the first place!), the most prominent and best documented of which is the being-embarrassed-about-being-racist. Call this the Shy Racist theory.

There is evidence that the Bradley effect is not recently noticable, perhaps inexistent; there are grounds for discounting the Shy Racist theory.

But it is POSSIBLE that other theories accounting for the old Bradley effect could be relevant for these elections. (E.g. that some Whites, at the last moment, find it difficult to help a Black cross a color barrier - even though they genuinely thought all the way they could).

There is uncertainty in this regard. The likelihood for this type of alternative theories is small (as after all the only relevant evidence does point against it) but it is one of the small uncertainties surrounding these elections.

MrInsight22 said...

In 1989, the final pre-election polls showed Wilder winning by 9 points for VA governor but the black candidate only won by half a point -- a massive 8 and 1/2 point Bradley effect.

If the Wilder effect were to happen in VA again this November, Obama will not win by 1 point as polls show now but might lose by 7 points or so. If you adjust for demographic changes since 1989, Obama might lose VA by 4 points.

David said...

Something I don't understand about exit polls: when voters can vote by mail, the sample of election day voters presumably skews Democratic.

How do exit polls take this into account, or do they? If they don't that would explain why we should ignore them.

Ash Mcgonigal said...

AJ: Spot on.

I think if anything, the polls are underestimating Obama's lead due to three factors about the youth vote:

First, the pollsters are using old models for predicting demographic turnout. Being a non-traditional student at a major university gives me the perspective as well as the insight to know that the younger generation has not been this turned on to the process in a long time (at least the last three elections, the time I've been paying attention).

Second, young people are less likely to have landline phones. In fact, none of the students I know do. Less landlines: less polled.

Third, my informal polling seems to show that 18-30 is going to be one of Obama's strongest demographics. I've met all of one (very tepid) McCain supporter in that demographic, compared to literally hundreds of fired up Obama supporters.

I'd like to see the stats on how many people are in the 18-30 demo, state by state. I'd bet that the ranking on that shows by how much the polls are off.

olberove said...

At least we know Bill Clinton isn't racist (he just confuses every black person with Jesse Jackson- an easy mistake to make).

John Peterson said...

I know the "Bradley Effect" is true from experience, because of people who are afraid they will be seen as racist if they don't support Barack Obama. These people will tell others they like him, and then not vote.

Some people, inexplicably, don't care that Obama is black and dislike him because of his character, background, and stated policy positions. Hard to believe, I know.

Travis McGee said...

Another way Nate's analysis could be wrong in this case (by the way, fantastic site, Nate!):

The Bradley Effect WAS there but it was offset by extra turnout among black voters that also misled the pollsters.

For example, the Bradley Effect overstated the Obama vote by 1%, but the poll missed the extra black voters who accounted for an understated 1% of the Obama vote. The numbers cancel each other out, so it LOOKS like there was no Bradley Effect IF you don't know about the undersampling of black voters.

Andy said...

New poll in Virginia from SurveyUSA. McCain just +1%. Still incredibly close.

PeteKent said...

Andy:

Add a few points to that number for McCain. I see him winning VA by at least 5. Bradley Effect, you know!

filistro said...

Ah Pete, aka The Black Knight...

The Black Knight is a fictional character in the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail. As his name suggests, he is a black knight who guards a tiny bridge for unknown reasons. Although supremely skilled in swordplay, he suffers from unchecked overconfidence and a staunch refusal to ever give up. Though he only appeared in one scene, he has become one of the most popular characters of the entire film. In the film, King Arthur (Graham Chapman), accompanied by his trusty serf Patsy (Terry Gilliam), is traveling through a forest when he enters a clearing and observes a fight taking place between a Black Knight (John Cleese) and a Green Knight (also played by Gilliam) by a bridge over a small stream.
Arthur congratulates the Black Knight and offers him a place at his court on the Round Table, but he only stands still, holding his sword, and makes no response until Arthur moves to cross the bridge; he then refuses to stand aside. Reluctantly, Arthur fights the Black Knight, and after a short battle the Knight's left arm is severed.

However, even at this the Knight refuses to stand aside, insisting "'tis but a scratch" and fighting on. Next his right arm, which had been holding his sword, is also removed, but he still does not concede. As the Knight is literally disarmed, Arthur assumes the fight is over and kneels to offer a prayer to God. The Black Knight interrupts Arthur's prayer of thanks for his victory by kicking him in the side of the head and accusing him of cowardice; when Arthur points out his injuries he insists it's "just a flesh wound". In response to the continued kicks and insults, Arthur chops off first one leg and finally the other, at which the Black Knight then concedes to "call it a draw". Arthur summons Patsy and "rides" away, leaving the Black Knight to scream threats at him ("I'll bite your legs off!"), where the scene fades out...


Off topic... I often see posts here that have been "removed by the author." How do you guys do that? I can't figure it out.

Tim said...

Wow the Obama supporters here are really tempermental.

PeteKent said...

Obama has dropped three points in VA from SUSA poll to SUSA poll in about 6 weeks time.

Daniel said...

There was no Bradley Effect in New Hampshire. There was a Romney Effect.

Virginia Conservative said...

Pete-

Thats margin of error, not a drop.

The Richardson Campus said...

There wasn't a Bradley Effect in New Hampshire. Obama did not over-poll. Instead, Clinton under-polled. The RCP composite right before the primary had Obama at 38.3% of the vote. He won 37%. It's practically the same.

clarkejeffrey said...

Look closely at the crosstabs for the Virginia poll. They might represent a reverse Bradley effect like Nate says we saw in the primary.

They have black support at 84-14. They also have the black turnout percentage at 19%.

If this is true, black turnout will actually go down from 2004. A lower percentage of blacks will vote for Obama than voted for Kerry.

Does anybody actually think this is true?

I decided to treat this poll as two separate polls...white VA and black VA.

The white VA poll has nearly 4 times the sample size.

If you assume only matches Kerry's percentages with AfrAmer/Latino/Asian/Other and the white VA poll is accurate, the poll shows that Obama is actually winning the state of Virginia by 2.59%.

Of course, I can hear the screams of liberal bias coming already. I'm saying to count the portion of the poll that looks good for Obama (white VA) and not count the portion that looks good for McCain (black VA). Clearly thats questionable.

Still the bottom line is this poll shows really bad news for McCain. It shows him doing nowhere near as well as he should in white VA.

If Obama just matches Kerry among minorities, Obama wins.

If Obama actually succeeds in increasing the AfrAmer turnout percentage from 21% to 23% and increasing his lead among AfrAmer to 92-7, he will win the state of Virginia by nearly 7 points.

The headline says McCain is winning, but I'm not sure I'd be cheering over this poll at camp McCain.


Of course, I could be wrong. If Obama does underperform Kerry among minorities...

Tim said...

It's hilarious to read the push-back and intense scrutiny that inevitably greets every poll that is negative for Obama.

clarkejeffrey said...

It's hilarious to read the push-back and intense scrutiny that inevitably greets every poll that is negative for Obama.

The whole point of this site is to analyze the numbers of polls in detail. I gave push-back and intense scrutiny to the poll that showed Obama up by 15 points.

If you want a site that accepts all polls at face value, you came to the wrong place.

pakaal said...

filistro said... "Watch closely, sports fans. I'm about to perform the Reverse Double Bradley, with a degree of difficulty of 3.8!"

I give you a score of 9.3. I was just thinking the same thing - if I were a good Republican, the last thing I'd do is tell a pollster that I was staying home on election day, let alone tell them I was voting for "the other guy". I'd proudly state that John McCain was my choice, and that I'd be voting in November. Particularly if my candidate wasn't doing well!

Personally speaking, I discourage people staying home. Go vote!

John Adam Zirinsky said...

Nate,

I completely agree that there it's difficult to find evidence of a Bradley Effect in Obama's actual vs. polling performance thus far. However, I don't think that there is anything (yet) there that disproves it, either.

Given the major changes in the demographics of the electorate this year--especially in Democratic primaries--which have seen young people and African-Americans flocking to the polls in record numbers, it's clear that the state-by-state turnout models that are based on exit poll turnout data from previous years are flawed. In order to accurately assess Obama's true performance against the polls you're looking at, don't you think you would need to re-weight those polls so they reflect the demographic profile of the electorate that actually turned out? I think you'd certainly need to re-weight by race, and probably age as well (because being older and whiter most probably would make one more likely to lie to a pollster about voting for a black candidate).

Also, exit polls did over-represent Obama's performance and, of course, they much more closely match the true demographic profile of the electorate than a pre-election poll, so I think that fact actually detracts from your argument (although I agree with your intended point that exit polls can be confusing in some instances).

I guess my broader point is that while there may not be any specific evidence of a Bradley Effect qua Obama, a) rigourous academic studies have found Bradley Effects in previous elections; b) a superficial look at his primary performance doesn't tell us much; and c) the general election will include a significantly greater number of racists than the Democratic primaries (for several reasons I'd be happy to run through if they're not obvious). So while I can't prove it either, I wouldn't be so quick to discount it as a possibility. I'm not saying it definitely exists, but since it's been demonstrated in the past and you haven't disproven it, I'd hardly call it just a "persistent myth."

Tim said...

Clarke:

The difference is there is nothing absurd or counter-intuitive about a Virginia poll showing McCain ahead by a single point, unlike a poll showing Obama ahead by 15% nationally. The point is the polls that get BY FAR the most scrutiny here are the ones that are better for McCain and worse for Obama.

Tim said...

And why does everyone assume the Bradley Effect is due to racism? Maybe some people feel social pressure to vote for an African American for president as a "historic first" and so would rather not disclose their [perhaps unrelated] decision not to support the black candidate?

clarkejeffrey said...

Tim,

McCain supporters are free to analyze the crosstabs on any Obama friendly poll. If they are entirely inconsistent with other polls and datapoints, they should feel free to mention that.

The difference is there is nothing absurd or counter-intuitive about a Virginia poll showing McCain ahead by a single point,

Agreed but you really do need to look at the crosstabs on all polls. The VA poll showed McCain receiving thoroughly mediocre numbers among white Virginians and only winning by receiving much better than expected numbers among blacks. I think that those two separate results are more interesting than the headline that combines the two. Wouldn't you agree?

McCain supporters are more than welcome to analyze the crosstabs on Obama-friendly polls. As a matter of fact, I think they should. I think it would help the discussion a lot. I feel like they just look at the headline and say "that can't be right" and dismiss the whole poll with no real analysis.

Full Infinity said...

Everybody talking about how the Bradley Effect has never been disproven for presidential elections should note that we have not yet had a presidential election where the Bradley Effect could apply.

Cowboyking66 said...

My apologies if this comment was already made above...but I think there is a much bigger bias introduced thru pollsters use of historical data to create a profile of a "likely voter" than any small Bradley Effect that may exist. Given Obama's signature strategy of enlarging the electoral pie, these historical formulae are certainly outdated. This also explains why Obama's positive deviation from polls existed in a number of key states (e.g. Iowa where there was a huge youth vote and South Carolina where there was a huge black vote). Both these categories under vote historically, but dramatically increased in this case.

Pat said...

I never thought much of the Bradley effect, for the simple reason that the implied assumption is that a bunch of racists are telling pollsters they're going to vote for a black man and then voting for the white guy. The second part of the formulation seems right, I just don't get why anybody would believe the first part.

Besides, it is my recollection that Bradley had only a slight lead on Dukmejian, and lost only barely, so the notion that this represented some huge turnaround that had to be explained didn't make that much sense.

rckz3 said...

Both Obama and McCain are narcissists and opportunists: quintessential politicians. Both have major deficits and holes in their resumes. But it's pretty simple for those of us in the taxpaying portion of the electorate: the combination of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid with increased majorities and no one to check their excesses is lethal and downright scary. Only the welfare recipients and vulture capitalists like George Soros and Warren Buffett can afford Obama. The fact that in a year that screams out for change and will produce a Democratic landslide, Obama can't even sniff 50% at this point says it all. The children and the childish may pin their hopes on a star but the sober will hold their noses and vote for the other guy.

I agree with your analysis that the "Bradley effect" is largely a mirage but please do make note of the abnormally high number of "undecideds." The folks who are holding their noses are the bulk of that abnormally high proportion of “undecideds” in the polls.

I really don't care whether Obama is aloof, foreign, inexperienced or “doesn’t look like the guys on the dollar bills.” But I resent the innuendo that not voting for Obama makes one a racist. And I despise the intellectual poverty of the simplistic implication that whites can expiate their collective guilt by casting a vote contrary to their understanding of their own best interest.

clarkejeffrey said...

I agree with your analysis that the "Bradley effect" is largely a mirage but please do make note of the abnormally high number of "undecideds." The folks who are holding their noses are the bulk of that abnormally high proportion of “undecideds” in the polls.

You really need to check your crosstabs.

The people "holding their noses" are already in McCain's column. A full 17% of his voters describe themselves as Dissatisfied with him as nominee. Thats more than the 14% enthusiastic.

The undecideds are not Repubs (10%). They are independents (16%) and Dems (14%).

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/JUL08B-Elec.pdf

Nis Jorgensen said...

@humanist,

you make a very good distinction, although I think your attempt to control terminology, even just on this site, will fail.

Specifically, since "the Bradley Effect" is already used to denote the entire pcakage, I think you need two new terms, not one, to replace it.

There are also intermediate concepts that could be explored, such as

- The tendency of individuals to overstate their level of support for black candidates (which can be explained by "Shy Racist" and lead to "Bradley"). This could possibly be easier to examine and quantify than the underlying motivations.

PeteKent said...

Clarkjeffrey:

You make a good point about the high number of undecideds.

Given that Obama is the biggest celebrity in the wrold and most people (Pew Poll) are tired of hearing about him, what are these voters waiting for?

Just like with Clinton, this should be cause for concern for Obama supporters. I am betting history will repeat itself and they will break heavily for McCain. Obama is not safe unless he has a lead of at least 5 to 8% in my book.

Bill Dawers said...

Nate,
It's interesting that you have consistently discounted Obama's chances in Georgia given his poll numbers and other fundamentals, but then you note here that Obama typically outperformed polling in the South by 7%. If he outperforms by half that in the general election, he's likely to win Georgia, not to mention NC and VA.

Rob said...

I think the real analysis has to involve looking at open primaries. If the Bradley effect somehow has a stronger presence in situations involving non-democratic voters, then open primaries would be the place to measure it. Measuring the polling of self-described independents vs. Obama's performance amongst independent voters in open primary states would give us an indication of what the actual effect might be. I'm quite skeptical of the effect, and think that its historical examples have a lot more to do with people actually changing their minds at the last minute than people lying to pollsters. I think that unacknowledged racism plays a role when candidates opposing African-Americans give voters reasons to channel those feelings into some other category at the last minute.

Capacitor said...

There are a lot of naive comments in this thread. Yes, it's 2008, and race is still THE prime mover in American politics.

I live in the south and know this to be true with every fiber of my being. The South was once solidly Democratic. Is it really a coincidence that it turned solidly Republican almost overnight in 1964 -- when Lyndon Johnson, a Democratic president, signed the Civil Rights act? And so the South remains.

The northeast once was solidly Republican (in FDR's most sweeping re-election, only Maine and NH went for the Republican).

From Reagan's references to 'welfare queens' buying liquor with their entitlement checks, to Willie Horton, to Obama as 'that one', with Republican rally crowds shouting 'terrorist!' and 'kill him!', the Republican party is first and foremost the anti-Black party, knowing the traction that gives them with the White majority. This is exactly why lower- and middle-class whites vote Republican even when every Republican economic policy is forcing their standard of living to decline. The American dream isn't as important to many as their fears and their ingrained hatred.

The Democrats take what opportunity is left and try to cobble together a heterogeneous coalition that usually doesn't hold together well enough to win a national election. And I don't have rose-colored glasses about all this -- remember, the Democrats once were the race-baiting party, decades ago. It's all about opportunity, with only sprinkles of real principle every once in a while. And the Democrats aren't afraid to tap into the black community's resentment toward the white establishment, either.

So, we can discuss what the statistics really mean, and whether the Bradley effect is real. But please, get your heads out of the sand. Race is, and has been for some time, the #1 political driver in America, and will be for a long time.

gooogleable said...

Okay, conspiracy theory: RepuKKKes want people to believe in the Bradley effect because they are gonna hack the voting machines anyway. All manufacturers of those machines (Diebold) are openly repuKKKe and will lose a lot of money when any Democrat wins.
So, they hack the machines, win against all expectation and then shrug their shoulders and say: Bradley effect, even your white Democrats won't vote for a black guy, joke's on you.

Cristi said...

i get so aggravated when i read everyone trying to guess who will vote for who and why......in some vain attempt to pacify themselves about the outcome of this election. A previous blogger made some statements about the electorate of the South turning Republican because of the Civil Rights Act ...I would like to comment on that. The south has turned Republican because we have finally wised up after having lived under democratic policies and corruption for so many years. My state gave the world Huey Long, who reminds me a lot of Obama and current democratic thinking at the moment. Long convinced masses of poor, uneducated people, who had been decimated arguably since the Civil War, that he would "take care of them" by spreading the wealth around...that the enemy was that prosperous guy down the street (who by the way was giving everyone a job due to his success). Long created a government in this state that he would be able to exploit and rob blind, and the democratic-quasi socialist policies he set up drove business out of this state for decades...businesses that stayed out until the 1980's when under Reagan and our republican governor lowered taxes on businesses and created a more business friendly environment. it has actually been a slow process, as Louisiana is still a state with a large "recovering democrat"-ic philosophy (of course we had now jailed Democrat ex-governor Edwin Edwards to deal with too. An interesting aside, the first election I voted in I got to choose between him or David Duke as my governor...one of the only times I did NOT vote republican). But in recent years, especially in my city, we have created a very business friendly climate, and our unemployment rate, even now in this economic crisis, is still very low. We have hardly felt the 'crisis' here, business is healthy and local banks are still lending to our business. Home sales have slowed, but are still actually okay, People are confident about the future, because we finally learned in this state, that democratic ideas about the economy defy business logic. If obama gets elected and raises taxes on my small business (as he says he will) I will not be able to employ the number of people I have been...people will have to be fired, and I will have to scale back my production. I guess the guys I will have to fire won't mind cause Obama will throw them a little bone in the form of a welfare check....oddly enough, that he takes from me....

I have an idea, why don't we keep my taxes low, and my employees can keep their jobs, and the money I give the government won't be halved by the government employee Obama will have to pay to process and distribute what is left of my money to my poor fired employee.

Obama wants to eliminate my guy's job, and pay two (or more) people with his money. How does anybody win under that scenario?

I am ALWAYS left scratching my head when I hear people saying the democrats "own" the economy issue....why, cause they always kill it?

Remember Jimmy Carter...the 70's? Go back and learn your history, especially your economic history. Look at how Europe, under socialism for decades, has been electing more conservative leaders (France, Germany, Italy) and lowering taxes, because they are finding out socialism doesn't work!

and isn't it interesting, that some of the most economically devastated urban areas in this country have repeatedly elected democratic mayors for decades? Has there been any "change" in Detroit? Look up the statistics on some other cities if you are curious.

Now, before your head blows completely off, let me say, that I honestly think we need both parties running things, so the other one doesn't get too corrupt. I am not one to completely dismiss democratic ideas altogether, the party attracts many kindhearted people who are more socially minded than a lot of independence driven republicans. We don't need to live in a world purely driven by profit, and we don't need to think only about the health of business...the welfare of workers is just as important.

BALANCE, people.

But I can say, that one reason I seem to consistently vote republican is because #1, big governments invite corruption and we need to keep more power (and thus more money) on the side of the people...and #2, I don't like the political tactics I see used among many leftist factions, the protesting, the destruction of property and rioting, the Alinsky-esque tactics used by groups like Code Pink and Acorn, the class warfare games, the race games many of them like to play...and all of the HATE for others who don't think like them....there is no place in any party for that, and the fact that more fair minded democrats don't condemn and marginalize groups like that makes me not want to support them at all (instead, of marginalizing them, they have embraced them).

I do hope McCain wins. I think he and Palin would bring balance and practicality to Washington...I am not one of those people who think Obama is the antichrist...and I would like to see a minority or a woman in the White House soon...but McCain is a centrist, and I think that is the change this country needs...a departure from so much partisanship. I like his message. Country before party....and I also can't help remembering that McCain gave us 5 years in a North Vietnamese prison camp......and for that, when he asks me for my vote, I could at least give him that in return.

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GINA said...

ielts、留學、遊學、托福及全民英檢等考試資訊,可以上網查詢,並找到適合自己的補習班或學習方法。

GINA said...

芙蝶創意婚禮企劃備有專業婚禮顧問外,還提供海外婚禮服務,給結婚的準新人最貼心的服務。

GINA said...

不景氣,產婦的月子還是得坐,所以坊間出現了「到府坐月子」的服務,專業保母直接登門造訪到府服務,不但幫產婦坐月子,還幫忙買菜、做坐月子餐、帶小孩、做家事,有點像是幫傭一樣,深受職業婦女歡迎。

GINA said...

團體服領域獲得成就的設計大師,都是靠深厚的功夫底子,施展他們出色的團體制服設計才華,所以若想學好團體制服設計,就必須要多接觸相關的藝術。

GINA said...

三信銀行提供信用貸款公教貸款銀行貸款服務,所以有信貸貸款需求,請洽三信商業銀行

派報社除了夾報發傳單外,還要能代客印製,所以多功能事務機是必備的工具,尤其是印表機影印機傳真機功能更是不可少。

GINA said...

為了籌措學費,白天打工,晚上到托福(toefl)補習班,沒課的時候又兼了幾個家教,除了準備托福考試外,因為沒錢委託留遊學中心代辦,申請學校的相關事宜只好自己來,真的很辛苦,還好有一起努力的三劍客同學,其中一個準備到英國留學,所以準備ielts考試,另一個同學則是到日本留學,所以到日文補習班提升日文考試成績,他因為經濟情況佳,所以由留遊學代辦中心幫忙處理留學的事。留學回來現在大家都有不錯的結果,因為不錯的英文能力,常有被企業外派的機會,參加企業教育訓練提升專業能力,職位隨著好的工作績效不斷跟著提升,所以即使無法出國留學,也應參加英檢,以提升英文能力,如多益 (toeic)考試,或全民英檢 (gept)等英檢考試,多益(toeic)對於到外國公司工作有幫助,而且有些外國企業會要求提供多益(toeic)的成績,而全民英檢(gept)是國內大學畢業的基本條件及就業必備,坊間的多益托福補習班,都提供了很好的學習環境。

GINA said...

網頁設計虛擬主機是成立一個網站前要做的。

正大會計師事務所提供企業教育訓練服務,由專業的會計師給多專業的指導。

摩洱邊境花蓮民宿網,提供花蓮、台東民宿資訊。

GINA said...

蔡佳祝高雄皮膚科提供皮膚診治外,還有飛梭雷射淨膚雷射凹洞診治服務,及特地為高雄減肥者成立的塑身服務,另外與蔡昌學醫師配合提供復健治療服務。

GINA said...

把滿足人們的要求放在首位來考量,在室內設計時就會充分考慮使用功能,使室內環境合理化、舒適化、科學化;要考慮人們的活動規律處理好空間設計、空間尺寸及空間比例;在進行室內設計時要聽取使用者的意見,然後對自己的設計進行修改,要充分展現出室內設計的人性化,也就是說室內裝潢設計要滿足客戶的一些需求,不能滿足客戶需求的室內裝修設計不是一個好的設計。
選擇正規的室內裝潢公司,質量有保證,有些人認為凡事親力親為就可以節省很多開支,然而搭上無數時間後,房子的室內裝潢效果卻不盡如人意,如果業主有一定經濟能力進行較高檔次的室內裝潢,專家認為最好還是選擇正規的室內設計公司為宜。因為專業的室內設計師在施工上有經驗,做工有保證外,由於他們經常大批量選材,質量穩定且價格相對較低,一次重大的室內設計裝潢工程,會因為這樣的花費,而有高品質的成果,相對而言,反而降低成本。OA辦公家具的設計亦然。

GINA said...

如果想要節省搬家費用,有些搬家公司有提供全省的搬家服務,這是因為幫客戶搬家時將家具由台北搬家搬到南部,去程或回程是空車,遠距離、少數大型物件的搬運,就可以利用這樣的回頭車搬家運費較便宜是最大優點,但缺點是需要事先預約,且要配合搬家公司車趟時間。但要提醒消費者的是即使找回頭車,也應該謹慎簽約,以保障自己的權益。因為有些搬家公司自行設計契約,內容簡陋,預藏陷阱,消費者一時不察簽約後,搬家業者可能會惡性加價,所以選擇搬家公司,最好請三家左右搬家業者來估價,做一番比較。
台北搬家公司提供中和搬家桃園搬家板橋搬家等為主的搬家服務,為政府立案合法經營之精緻搬家公司。若您有台北搬家桃園搬家需求可電洽搬家公司搬家公司就會派專人到您府上,確立搬家物品數量及種類進行免費估價,提供最合適的搬家服務方式及報價,並簽訂專業搬家契約書,保障消費者權益,提供免費搬家包裝、衣箱、膠帶等包裝材料供您整理打包使用。好的搬家公司會秉持一貫優良搬家服務態度,誠實收費,絕不額外亂加價,另提供有回頭車台北搬家打包服務。

GINA said...

徵信社是屬於民間的營利性質的調查機構,針對個人、企業提供不同的徵信調查服務。針對個人徵信方面,由於屬於隱私面,例如:婚前徵信-為了調查個人的日常交友及感情狀況;至於個人資料及背景資料等提供,徵信社也容易因個資外洩,而侵害個人隱私權等觸犯了法律的地雷。徵信社對於企業徵信的部分,避免淪為商業間諜之虞,還要小心取得證據的合法性。

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ass said...

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ass said...

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ass said...

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