Note: Second Update below contains video of Warren's appearance today on CNN. [9:19 PM CDT]
In yesterday's Saddleback Forum, pastor Rick Warren on two occasions referred to John McCain's "cone of silence", implying strongly that he had not been able to hear the questions posed to Barack Obama ahead of time -- questions which were, in many cases, identical to the ones posed to McCain.
This was Pastor Warren during Barack Obama's segment last night. Apologies for the capitalization -- it is in the original transcript -- but emphasis is mine:
NOW WHAT I'VE DECIDED IS TO ALLOW FOR PROPER COMPARISON I'M GOING TO ASK IDENTICAL QUESTIONS TO EACH OF THESE CANDIDATES SO YOU CAN COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES. NOW SENATOR OBAMA IS GOING TO GO FIRST. WE FLIPPED A COIN. AND WE HAVE SAFELY PLACED SENATOR MCCAIN IN A CONE OF SILENCE. EACH OF THE INTERVIEWS WILL BE SEGMENTED INTO FOUR DIFFERENT SECTIONS WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT A FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS AND THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ANSWERED IN EACH SEGMENT WILL DEPEND ON HOW SUCCINCT THE SENATOR IS.Warren again referred to the "cone of silence" at the very beginning of McCain's segment. McCain's response is obviously a joke, and a pretty funny one at that, but the important part is that Warren is implying that the cone of silence is an actual, physical place:
Q. WELCOME BACK TO THE SADDLEBACK CIVIL FORUM ON THE PRESIDENCY AND WELCOME SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN. NOW MY FIRST QUESTION WAS THE CONE OF SILENCE COMFORTABLE THAT YOU WERE IN JUST NOW?However, Warren was just interviewed by CNN's Rick Sanchez, and apparently told him that McCain was not in the church during the first half-hour of Obama's segment. (I did not see the segment myself, nor does a transcript or video yet seem to be available). Sanchez has now suggested that Warren implied to him that he (Warren) thought McCain was in the "cone of silence" when he told the audience as much, but later learned that McCain was not.
A. I WAS TRYING TO HEAR THROUGH THE WALL.
This is highly despicable behavior, folks, on the part of McCain, Warren or possibly both. There's simply no way around it.
UPDATE: Let me be more clear about what I am suggesting. I am not suggesting that Warren conspired in some way with McCain. In fact, I thought his questions last night were exceptionally fair -- how couldn't they be, since both candidates were asked the same questions?
However, based on Warren's accounting of the proceedings, what we know is as follows:
1. Warren assumed that, at the time he began to interview Senator Obama, that Senator McCain had been placed into a 'cone of silence'. Warren probably had no way to verify McCain's whereabouts immediately before taking stage; he was, according to pictures posted at the Saddleback website, speaking with Sen. Obama in the green room.
2. However, Senator McCain was in fact not at the church or in any other quarantined location at the time he began to interview Obama; instead, he was in his motorcade on the way to the site for approximately the first half-hour of the proceedings.
3. Warren says he asked McCain whether he had heard any of the questions, and McCain said that he had not; Warren "trust[s] the integrity" of McCain's answer.
If McCain was in the motorcade, then there would be absolutely nothing, other than his honor, that would prevent him from hearing Obama's questions. However, it is probably impossible to verify whether McCain had in fact heard any of the questions. The only people who could say for sure were the people in the motorcade with John McCain.
What we can possibly verify is whether the McCain people had violated an implied or expressed promise to have arrived at the venue by the time that Barack Obama's interview began. Warren implied to a national audience that McCain was in a quarantined area at the time Obama's interview began, but in fact McCain was not.
Warren is on Larry King's show tomorrow night; the questions that King should ask him are things like:
1) What were the rules of the game were intended to be ahead of time, particularly as it reflects the 'cone of silence'?
2) Did he specifically request that the McCain people have their candidate show up to the event by at least the time of Barack Obama's interview?
3) When did he learn that McCain had not in fact been placed into the 'cone of silence'?
Whether Warren actually believes that McCain heard the questions or not is immaterial. Warren, evidently, considers both McCain and Obama to be friends, and he takes them at their word.
But the point is, there were supposed to be controls in place that prevented this situation from arising -- a situation where McCain was in a position to cheat without any consequence for having done so. Those controls broke down. We need to learn more about what those controls were, and why they broke down.
UPDATE: Here's the video.

246 comments
The sad thing here is that there is any question at all of what happened...that only hurts McCain and Warren and frankly taints what was a very interesting event conceptually.
I have no doubt that McCain got an edge but we will never know for sure..
The reality is he did not need one playing on home field in front of people that that at worst leaned his way vs. Obama.
Both candidates know Rev. Warren and his interests. They'd have to be very foolish not to guess at certain areas Warren would want to cover, such as orphans as this is a big deal to Warren. Considering this, Obama's comment about "cheating" probably means he anticipated a question in this area and looked up some information beforehand. Since none of us can really prove anything about something we really know nothing about, I'll take my explanation. If this whole thing gets increased coverage, someone will probably ask Obama about his comment and we'll see his explanation.
Mule Rider - So what you are saying is that not following the rules and cutting corners is the type of moral fiber that we want in our President?
Forget the outcome of this non debate .... McCain's entire story and appeal is what we heard last nite. "I stayed behind rather than get special treatment".....powerful stuff if true....devastating if his standards are no longer those and he would cheat to get a 30 min prep advantage in an important appearance..
Nicolle Wallace, a spokeswoman for Mr. McCain, said “The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said
Give me a break. What a crock of shit. We know Mr. War hero gets special treatment but I didn't realize it was unamerican to question his integrity. Of course a war hero wouldn't make up a story about a cross in a prison camp, that would be disgusting and vile for a person to say that in a place of worship to get votes. A war hero would never do that, too much integrity.
I know Obama won't toutch this, but I would not let McCain use POW as a defense. Go right at it. They just opened the door.
hiram - Warren said tonite on CNN that the one question he did not get a chance to prep McCain on, though he did prep Barack, was this orphan one. he said it to Rick Sanchez around 10:15 EST
mule is now going to attack every media organ which carries this story. good luck, mule.
Obama admitted having had a chance to preview the "orphan" question.....even though it was Warren who gave him a "peek" at it.
If McCain was a honorable man, he would have said, "Sorry, we were running late and I was in the car during the first half of Obama's questioning," instead of making a lame joke that turned out to be hiding a lie.
Obama admitted having had a chance to preview the "orphan" question.....even though it was Warren who gave him a "peek" at it.
If McCain was a honorable man, he would have said, "Sorry, we were running late and I was in the car during the first half of Obama's questioning," instead of making a lame joke that turned out to be hiding a lie.
Nate:
The NYTs also ran with the story about Bush's military service based on forged documents. They have zero cred.
Video tonite of Warren on the issue and last nite:
http://www.cnn.com/video/savp/evp/?loc=dom&vid=/video/politics/2008/08/17/rick.warren.forum.interview.cnn
Just checked the CNN website and found this in a story about this "controversy:"
"The pastor spoke to each candidate this week, giving the general themes. Warren decided to tell them each the first two questions in advance, about the three wisest people you know, and the biggest moral failings."
This reinforces my earlier surmise about Obama's "cheating" comment. I am a strong Obama supporter--really, was even at his Super Tuesday rally at the Hyatt in Chicago--and I think this whole thing is being overblown.
McCain's answers were all from his stump speeches. It is no surprise that he did well. The success of each candidate is in the eye of the beholder. I like Obama's nuanced answers, showing he really considers many components of a problem. McCain is a shoot from the hip kind of guy. If you like that, great, but we've had that kind of President for eight years and don't need another four years of the same.
...The issue, as Nate pointed out, is that [McCain] didn't follow the rules...
Not to pick on Sedi, but this seems to be what's sticking in people's craw. Obama's campaign seems to thrive on mastering and enforcing the rules, and it seems his supporters see it as a given that the rules are unbending and that people care about them. Sorry to say that's not really the case. If people cared so much about rules, they would have cared about McCain's questionable exit of primary matching funds, about Obama's stepping out of the campaign finance system (not a legal requirement, but nevertheless an accepted rule that all presidential candidates have followed for 32 years), or any number of other details that only junkies talk about.
Voters have especially low expectations of politicians. Both McCain and Obama have ample flexibility to bend the rules before they've broken them in the mind of the public. They literally get the benefit of the doubt - voters naturally doubt everything politicians do anyway, so unless they do something truly egregious they benefit from having met low expectations.
Nate: Too bad the NYT story is on page A12. Anyone know whether that's likely to be the back page of the front section (and thus fairly visible), or buried in its interior?
McCain Campaign now complaining of Obama bias with NBC due to this controversy:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12594.html
Again attack with "plausible deniability".....
These guys are Rovian and good..
Mule: "So McCain outperformed compared to what a lot of people thought he would. That means he cheated?" Strawman. Has anyone argued that McCain's performance (which was better than I expected) is indicative of cheating? The problem isn't even the cheating. It's that McCain broke the rules by not showing up on time, regardless of whether he benefited from that violation, then responded to Rev. Warren's comments in a way that implied he'd followed the rules. People fail standardized tests for the appearance of impropriety, people lose licenses for the appearance of impropriety, and McCain should have to explain his appearance of impropriety.
I guess a nerve was touched, Rick Davis asked for a meeting with the head of NBC news to protest Andrea Mitchell's comment on this on MTP as an example of partisan bias.
Mule - do you play golf? In golf rules are abided by the player..
Rules are rules and he broke them opening up the question of veracity that at best soils his performance....if he really was that good he takes a huge hit, if not and can be proven his campaign is over...we've seen the lies already and his gaffes and it is hard to believe the POW still exists inside McCain.
Going back a few posts to overrated at the top of this page, you say:
"Worse yet, Obama has moved around without any real roots. Who is this guy? He attended a politically divisive church for 20yrs and had his kids baptised at the same church."
Don't you see how those two statements, that Obama is rootless and that Obama attended the same church for 20 years, might be a wee bit contradictory? Perhaps you should consider, you know, choosing a negative message and sticking with it.
I think we're all missing a much simpler lie here:
Pastor Warren said there was a coin toss.
1) If McCain was late in arriving, how do you have a coin toss with a candidate that's not there? Surrogates or advance-men?
2) Even if you hold a coin toss, what if the result says that the absent candidate will go first? Now you're really in a bind.
I doubt there was a coin toss at all. You'd have to be nuts to leave it to chance. There's no way you'll take a 50% probability that the coin will tell you to send up the guy that isn't there. In prime time, no less...
mason: They had announced the results of the coin toss in news stories earlier on Saturday. I don't know precisely when it was performed, but I know it was at least a few hours before the event. If McCain's lateness was intentional, it was with the knowledge he would be going second.
Ty:
Makes sense.
Oh poor jack black ... It looks like you are one of the "few" [sic] people who DID NOT get Sen. Obama's "pay grade" comment ...
In your haste to find something to confront the senator with you FAILED to grasp that he was talking about "someone higher than him", someone some refer to as GOD. He , Mr. Obama, was NOT at the level to state unequivocally that life begins at conception because HE IS NOT GOD ...
Stop taking things Sen. Obama says literally because the man is a highly INTELLECTUAL body who makes statements requiring more cranial activity than a regular person like you and I (even though I understood what he meant ) ...
On a side note, I could have taken the McCain "$5 million to be rich" statement and mangled it to prove he was out of touch with reality BUT childish as that statement may have been I got that he was just joking ...
Most importantly, does John McCain get to LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL with the caveat he is a POW? That old line is getting tired considering his role in the Savings and Loan scandals, and the cheating on his wife and all the other LYING AND CHEATING he has done throughout his long senate career.
I don't want a President who nukes some country because he has unresolved anger from being a POW!
Virginia Conservative said...
BTW, PUMA is a really stupid ass term
For your information, the technically correct way to spell it is P.U.M.A., per their website:
http://www.puma08.com/tag/clinton/
And it stands for "Party Unity My Ass"
If you didn't know the above, it shows how VERY little you understand about politics and the 2008 campaign.
ROOKIE!!
Mike
What, you mean to tell me that a megachurch pastor and a right-wing Republican presidential candidate would conspire to LIE? I am shocked, just shocked.
Read the "Justices" excerpt from the transcript. Line 13 seems to the first mention of supreme court justices in the transcript.
9 DEFINE MARRIAGE.
10 A UNION -- A UNION BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN, BETWEEN
11 ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, THAT'S MY DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE.
12 ARE WE GOING TO GET BACK TO THE IMPORTANCE OF SUPREME
13 COURT JUSTICES.
14 Q WE'LL GET TO THAT.
15 A ALL RIGHT. OKAY.
16 Q YOU GOT ALL MY QUESTIONS, GOOD.
Just saying...
This is very simple: If John McCain wasn't in "The Cone Of Silence" when Rick Warren began his interview with Barack Obama, then he is guilty of misleading Senator Obama, his church, and those viewing or listening at home.
We were led to believe that McCain was in the building and under Warren's control when he began interviewing Senator Obama. McCain may not have or know how to use an iPhone, but someone in his entourage certainly does. Nothing kept the McCain camp from receiving emailed or texted characterizations of the questions asked from the venue, either backstage or in the audience or from a monitor elsewhere.
Obama acquitted himself well during the forum. McCain gave canned, pat, stump speech answers throughout. The fact that McCain's performance in the forum--pro or con--is the issue means that Obama walked away with a win.
But Nate raises questions of basic honesty and fairness with his allegations. Thanks for doing it.
This is very simple: If John McCain wasn't in "The Cone Of Silence" when Rick Warren began his interview with Barack Obama, then he is guilty of misleading Senator Obama, his church, and those viewing or listening at home.
We were led to believe that McCain was in the building and under Warren's control when he began interviewing Senator Obama. McCain may not have or know how to use an iPhone, but someone in his entourage certainly does. Nothing kept the McCain camp from receiving emailed or texted characterizations of the questions asked from the venue, either backstage or in the audience or from a monitor elsewhere.
Obama acquitted himself well during the forum. McCain gave canned, pat, stump speech answers throughout. The fact that McCain's performance in the forum--pro or con--is the issue means that Obama walked away with a win.
But Nate raises questions of basic honesty and fairness with his allegations. Thanks for doing it.
Why doesn't your "Messiah" just accept the townhall debates he promised he would???
We could clear this all up or is that decision "above his pay grade", as well???
B. Hussein Soetoro is a coward, a liar and a radical socialist...
"If McCain was in the motorcade, then there would be absolutely nothing, other than his honor, that would prevent him from hearing Obama's questions."
Oh. So it's settled then? Because McCain's honor would seem to be higher than most.
PROPOSED PROJECT: REFUTING MCCAIN'S CONE OF SILENCE
NEEDED MATERIALS: (a) a copy of the Saddleback forum, (b) voice-stress analysis software, and (c) software clocking devices.
PURPOSE: If McCain did profit from information about the first half of Obama's interview, then McCain's responses would be noticeably different in the second half of his own interview. (I'm including the possibility here that McCain may have received advice over his cell phone from advisors who were watching the Obama interview.)
WHAT TO LOOK FOR:
1. Evidence of not telling the truth. The initial interaction between McCain and Pastor Warren provides a suitable calibration point, as they both knew McCain had not kept his commitment to remain in the "cone of silence" during Obama's interview. Visible difference in stress levels between the first and second halves could be an indication of hanky panky regarding the first half.
2. Quicker response times during the first half. I was particularly struck by McCain's NEGATIVE response times in some cases, where he couldn't even wait until the question had been posed. I believe all of these occurred during the first half.
3. Shorter answers interspersed with premeditated anecdotes during the first half.
4. More logical "gap" time in the second half, where McCain has to think in order to produce a thoughtful answer, because he doesn't already know the answer.
WHAT TO DO WITH THE INFORMATION: Report the results ASAP to truthfightsback.com.
- Jim Williams
jgwilliams@mindspring.com
If the Times has picked this up, it should hit the nightly news. It really is a blow to McCain's so-called character--which makes it news.
McCain wants to make this election about Obama because he loses on all the major policy issues. If the spotlight turns to show McCain as the little man I believe he has acted as during this election, the Dems will walk into the white house no problem.
This thing is going on 250 comments. That is amazing. This was not an actual debate. If you watched when Warren announced the "Cone of Silence" it was to thunderous laughter both by him and the crowd. Same thing when he reannounced it. The crowd and most of the world didnt take it that seriously. Its not like a regular debate. Obama answered the questions. Later McCain answered the questions. McCain seemed more prepared and relaxed, but then again he was in a southern baptist church, the kind he attends regularly in Phoenix, and far from the UCC Black Liberation Theology type of religion Obama was used to.
This insane drivel about cheating is only going to help McCain. It just isnt a big deal to anyone but the left ideologues, and there is no solid proof it even occured, just guesswork based on performance from someone that was at home in that situation.
Frankly, I would be impressed by the McCain teams ability if they did cheat. It means he was able to not only get the questions ahead of time, but prepare detailed precise on point answers, memorize these, and go in noteless and answer every single question correctly and in exact phraseology that had been prepared and memorized during the 15 minutes he had before going on stage.
If this is true, age will never be an issue. He is sharper and has better control that Obama on fact retention and speech control, given only 15 minutes of prep time.
At least McCain didnt answer any question that the answer was "above my paygrade" because you know Senators who make the law, do not have to wrestle with the question of when life begins. Its going to stay above his paygrade, because any sensible person would not put someone in as a president who cannot honestly answer his belief on a very specific question and issue.
What about the fact that on education he answered questions before they were asked and the part we he said, 'aren't you going to ask me about the supreme court?'
From the number of people who watched who felt that McCain knew the questions in advance.. it was based on how he answered as if he was rattling off the answers he jsut memorized... if you leave out the dumb stories he told.
Could someone answer just one question for me?
Before Warren asked the question McCain wanted to "go back to the Supreme court issue", at which point Warren moved quickly back to what he had asked.
Now riddle me this Batman; if you do not know the question before hand how can you want to "go back" to a question yet asked?
The Pastor Lied. When he said, "WE HAVE SAFELY PLACED SENATOR MCCAIN IN A CONE OF SILENCE" he knew he had no idea where McCain was. The Pastor must be dizzy with all the spinning he's been doing lately.
Rev. Warren lied to his church and the people of this country about the rules of the question and answer session.
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