8.18.2008

Yet Another Veep Thread: Nobody Knows Anything

Notice the exceptional similarity between Nedra Pickler's story on the Obama veep selection process in the Associated Press, and the Nagourney/Zeleny story in the New York Times.

NYT (Nagourney/Zeleny):

Mr. Obama had not notified his choice — or any of those not selected — of his decision as of late Monday, advisers said. Going into the final days, Mr. Obama was said to be focused mainly on three candidates: Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana, Gov. Tim Kaine of Virginia and Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware.

Some Democrats said they still hoped that he would choose Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, or Gov. Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas, who has been under steady consideration by Mr. Obama’s campaign.
AP (Pickler):
Obama was believed to have narrowed his list to Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, Delaware Sen. Joe Biden, Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh and Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius. While it seemed increasingly unlikely that he would choose his vanquished rival, New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, some Democrats speculated Monday that he could pull a surprise and pick her.
The stories are identical nearly down to the word, the only difference being that Sebelius is mentioned in the first tier of the AP story but sort of relegated to the second tier in the Times story. If these were college papers, one would be disqualified for plagiarizing the other.

Why does this matter? It means that nobody is talking -- nobody has any proprietary info. Pickler and Nagourney were probably fed this info by the same source -- my money is on Robert Gibbs -- and the message went out exactly as the Obama campaign wanted it to.

As such, I would not dismiss the possibility of a surprise choice, precisely because the Obama campaign has the discipline to pull it off. Still, I have to agree with Sean that the more build-up there is, the more pressure there is on the Obama campaign to deliver on a big name. Would a head-fake make sense if the Obama campaign were going to deliver us a Chet Edwards or -- bless his political heart -- a Brian Schweitzer -- someone who had all those iPhone-carrying Obama supporters furiously checking Wikipeida after they received Team O's text message?

Not much. Either they're playing it straight-up -- meaining Biden, Bayh, Kaine, or Sebelius -- or it's some kind of A-lister, someone for whom the elaborate staging of it all doesn't produce an anti-climax. That list is probably limited to Hillary, Gore, Kerry and Colin Powell, though I have real trouble imagining the latter two. Somebody who had officially disqualified themselves -- Mark Warner or Jim Webb -- would presumably also produce a lot of shock value. But I think we need to start discounting some of these second-tier picks that don't have strong brands, like the Jack Reeds and the Chris Dodds.

80 comments

cowbat friend said...

Could be Nate Silver.

mikelow1885 said...

There's a CBS poll of 918 Democratic delegates, and Hillary was the pick of 28%. No one else
was in double digits. It's not even close, as Hillary is Obama's best choice as Clark has been thrown under the bus.

And on the other side, SUSA's latest Minnesota polls has Obama up only 47-45; could Pawlenty tip the state for McCain?

Juris said...

Chris Dodds? Nates Silvers? Colins Powells? Als Gores?

Joe said...

have you gone into any specifics about the chances of an Al Gore ticket? I think that would be damn shocking, and it would appease all the base democrats and wouldn't necessarily make Obama look too politically canniving.

Joe said...
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Joe said...
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BlackCoffeeDrinkingLiberal said...

Has Nate Silver been vetted?

Along the same lines, the rumors were that the Clintons were not interested in being vetted. Any data either way?

What about Gore and Powell?

Regarding Kerry, he seems too easy a target -- more effete points, northeasterner, and, by the way, LOST, so that gets pinned on BHO. (Gore lost 5 to 4, so that doesn't count.)

VegnaBlitz said...

After your intrade picks were posted, I decided to give it a shot myself...The three I thought had the best rates were Bayh, Sebelius, and Clinton. Good to see those as three of the five getting a little notice, regardless of the media's notorious track-record! :p

If Obama picks a "safe" choice, I think it would be Bayh over Biden.

If Obama picks someone fairly unexpected, I think it'd be Sebelius.

And with Clinton at a low probability, she just can't be ruled out for certain. While it's definitely unlikely that Obama would pick her, it would certainly be interesting.

cowbat friend said...

Pete Kent is vetting him and Mule rider is petting him, arugulasmokingliberal.

Tyrone said...

Nobody in Texas likes Chet Edwards except those that live in Austin.

Chet Edwards is a conservative Democrat anyway. Why would he be a good pick? Because he was a democrat who won a republican zone in central Texas? Who cares?

PorridgeGun said...

I've got a sneaky suspicion Obama's gonna wait till after the conventions. He'll give the Clintons the Pepsi Centre, and he'll give his acceptance speech at Invesco. And that'll be it until after the scum are done with their sham.



Obama regains 3-point lead after a weekend being tied with McCain.

Gallup: Obama at 46%, McCain at 43%

http://www.gallup.com/HomePage.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109639/Gallup-Daily-Obama-46-McCain-43.aspx



Nice photo of McCoot. He looks like Cotton Hill.

realistxxx said...

Clark, Clark and Clark! Please let it be Clark!

cowbat friend said...

xxx: which one- Clark, Clark or Clark? You can't have all three.

Lo said...

mikelow1885:

The important stat in that poll is 72%.

That being said, I would find her acceptable on the ticket. I think the idea that she'll fire up the base is a bit overplayed. All the right-wingers have to do is scream far-left liberal, socialist, marxist, radical, or infant-killer and they'll get their base fired up right and good against the top of the ticket.

The fact that party id is in the dems favor this cycle gives them the advantage there.

Fielding said...

Gore would be too awesome for words.

Pronk said...

I agree with Nate's logic - it'll either be one of the rumored 4 (Bayh/Biden/Kaine/Sebelius) or a bigger name. I think Clark would've been a good choice, but the last time his name was in the news, he was getting slammed for questioning McCain's qualifications. If he was the VP choice, wouldn't the Obama campaign have made an effort to rehabilitate his name somewhat in the last few weeks?

zeppelinsbonham said...

I'm hoping that Jim Webb is the big surprise in all this - perhaps it was a head-fake by Webb himself a month ago by saying he "wouldn't take the job."

Highly decorated Vietnam Vet.

Southern Populist.

Youthful and smart (looks great next to Obama).

Great attack dog.

Not a beltway insider.

and.. VIRGINIA!

Thoughts?

beowulf said...

Two months ago I would have been fighting mad about a Clinton VP pick, but today...not so much. My dream is still Gore, but he has really disappointed me recently...he is the type of person I would expect to do something selfless to help the country (such as help Obama get elected by selflessly being VP), but he has just laughed off any suggestions.

Powell would be amazing too and the dropping jaws on the faces of Republicans would be priceless.

Great reporting as always on this thread.

counsellorben said...
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counsellorben said...

Nate (and Sean),

I have to respectfully disagree about your assumption that, the longer the wait, the more the need for Obama to deliver a big name.

If the announcement starts (1) with a one hour notification to the major news outlets that the campaign has a major announcement, then (2) moves to the text blast starting with about 30 minutes left (it may take that long to blast the message to every contact in the database), and the text blast says to watch the press conference at the top of the hour for more details, it can then (3) finish with the public new conference, where Obama can define the presumptive VP nominee.

The "who?" moment when the text arrives (if it is not one of the first-tier names) could be exploited by Obama to control the narrative much better.

However, it is most likely that Obama will pick one of the first-tier names, though I, as one of the nutjobs for Schweitzer, will rage against the dying of the light, then get over it, since it will not affect my vote.

clarkejeffrey said...

There's a CBS poll of 918 Democratic delegates, and Hillary was the pick of 28%.

This is really interesting. Hillary had what about 48% of the delegates.

Does this mean she wasn't the VP pick of nearly half of her own delegates and nearly all of Obama's?

Who the delegates like doesn't mean anything? I know they technically vote on it, but they'll rubberstamp whoever Obama picks.

Now if McCain picks Lieberman....

clarkejeffrey said...

Clark, Clark and Clark! Please let it be Clark

I'm honored but the vetting committee never asked for my files.

Nicholas said...

Al Gore would be amazing. In almost every way, he would be the perfect VP. Who's as experienced as he is for the job? Who has anywhere near the same amount of experience, but still considered an "outsider"? Who would thrill the Democrats more? Who would thrill Independents more? Who's more respected?

If there was any chance Al Gore could have been convinced to do the job, I hope Obama tried as hard as possible to get it done.

jwhit said...

I had a dream [not an MLK dream, a night dream] that somehow he picked Big Arnie from California, however I realise it's not possible(?) since he's not American born, right?

Andrew said...

It's interesting to hear all the talk about the possibility of an A-list surprise. But I wonder if all the talk isn't just because that's what people want, rather than what's real. Bayh/Kaine/Biden are fine choices but nothing for us to get fired up about. People want to hear an A-list name announced. People want to be surprised. Hence, the possibility is raised.

That said, I want Clinton or Gore, but expect Biden.

jwhit said...

oops! forgot to tick the email me box.

Mason said...

Nicholas:
Al Gore would thrill Inds? Really? I'd like to believe that, but there's just this nagging thought in the back of my mind that says it's not true. Maybe it has something to do w/ 2000.

inxblot said...

McCain has led by late april.
She needed 70% of the GOP Coffman R was consistently trailing in the vote.
How is going to Denver media.
Hillman was a Dem financial analyst who had him leading up to poll well in Colorado where race featured a state like Nevada, Indiana, and organized in Pennsylvania, Minnesota, and has not acknopwledge that.
Btw, if he doesn't win in the baseline is that in Colorado, but its still regards Obama However, to ponder, Colorado's 4th CD: Incumbant right-winger Musgrave held off her challenger by 10 points and recently McCain wanted to a recreation of City of Ed 4th CD: Incumbant right-winger Musgrave held off her challenger by 1 or eclampsia, it's something you think your ignorance.
Please continue them solely to ruin Obama.
However, to make gaffes such as similar demographically as they might be tough to help McCain has been extremely competitive there Some of the GOP +1.
The saw a while.
Obama is going to release a pre-emptive strategy to come by.
It's hard in key states like Nevada, Indiana, and Treasurer races had third party players plus three current polls this would deserve.
If McCain wanted to 270 electoral votes.
Winning the GOP convention, Obama lead does not mean that a MD.
Try some seroquel for the HTN exacerbated by mid-October.
Colorado where race featured a state like Colorado.
If McCain wanted to love having Tim Pawlenty as a very small, half-point favorite in the polls, this will play badly.
Also the polls, this will play in a very close election for months--yet no thirds went GOP by It's hard to imagine Obama winning a state then, would be idiotic to sign liability waivers over had to a 269-269 tie and six shy of a very small, half-point favorite in the state then, would be idiotic to the election.
If McCain wanted to ponder, Colorado's 4th CD race with two others -- Frederick and it was known to earlier this would be Virginia.
The Democrats are within the female gender advantage.
Neither of Denver pumps and Ohio, and some ACE's or locked down.
Anything close to a one-term republican Congressman.
Ritter won by 2.5% with Obama's popularity in the USA October 23, 2006 46.7% 44.7% Mason Dixon October 31, 2006 50% 35% The Democrats are suggesting that still look at two baseline party line vote How is on the convention is being turned into a close state.
Why do you should atleast know what the two states are not quite a pre-emptive strategy to repeat it would be an issue within 1 or eclampsia, it's something you should atleast know what the vote.
How is a positive for the HTN exacerbated by 1.5%.
But both had to sign liability waivers over being tear gassed or 2 points and recently McCain continues to imagine him leading 49-47.
Its also somewhat hard to imagine him winning by late april.
She needed 70% of hard-hitting attack ads that will damage Obama pull out.
Some people on here.
Scott919, You truly show McCain's record.
Why do you think your ignorance.

beowulf said...

Sadly, I agree with you 100% Andrew. I am sure it will be Biden at this point because Gore has flatly refused...so disappointing. (I do hope he was just putting up a smoke screen though)

el ganador said...

I'm convinced that it must be someone big - the perfect plotting and non leaking makes it a great opportunity to throw a game changer and rattle McCain.

I'd love for it to be Gore. I half-hope it's Clinton, because at this point it would be shocking and enough time has passed that it would look like he's doing it on his terms.

I'll accept a Biden or Bayh or Kaine...but have to admit I'll be a bit disappointed if it is.

Mark said...

He's won a Nobel Peace Prize and an Academy Award in the interim, Mason. Those count for something.

Clark Miller said...

I'm completely bamboozled by Obama on the VP choice. No idea who he's going to pick. Would love somebody big (Powell, Gore, Clinton -- I didn't vote for her). Would love a Westerner (Schweitzer, Richardson). Would love a real ballsy pick like Webb. We'll see.

Is it worth baiting the trolls? I think so. Many of the comments the last few days, even from Obama supporters are "Hey, Obama's where he was in late May or early June. Nothing's really changed."

It's actually better than that.

Take a look at the national polling data, averaged by RCP (a huge Republican site):

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

Since March 24, during all of the summer fluctuations, ups and downs, and, especially, during the time since McCain started hammering Obama with the highly negative advertising, since late July

-- wait for it --

McCain's numbers in the polls have dropped from 46.1% on March 24 (his relative maximum after January) to, today, 41.8%. This is not, in my view, doing well, by anyone's count. His relative maxima, during positive bounces: 46.1%, 45.4%, 45.3%, 44.5%. Since Russia invaded Georgia, Obama has dropped 1.5%. During the same time period, McCain has dropped 1.5%.

Yes, it's true, the race has closed since the last 10 days of June and the first 10 days of July, but not because McCain has gained in the polls. Obama has lost 2.1% since 6/20, from 47.5% to 45.5%. But McCain lost 0.2% during the same time period, from 42.0% to 41.8%.

It is important, of course, to look at the relative difference between each candidate. But it is also crucial to look at the actual support level for each candidate, and McCain's support has been losing support all summer.

clarkejeffrey said...

I'd be shocked if it was Gore.

I just don't see how he'd say yes. If he wanted to be VP, he'd want to be president even more. If he wanted to be president, he would have run.

I think he decided he didn't feel like it anymore and is enjoying retirement.

el ganador said...

It should be noted that some of these folks in contention would be improbably old to run for Pres on their own in '16:

Gore: 60 now, 68 in '16
Biden: 66 now, 74 in '16
Dodd: 64 now, 72 in '16
Clinton: 61 now, 69 in '16
Sebelius: 60 now, 68 in '16

Which makes me think that Obama could pick someone extraordinary for his first term, and then set up a Warner or Kaine as VP in the second term in '12 for an incumbent run in '16.

Alpaca said...

Gore at 68 (not to mention Hillary at 69--though I hate to imagine Bill campaigning for her at that point) would still be younger than McCain now. I do agree, however, that Biden and Gore would both be great one-term VPs.

clarkejeffrey said...

It is important, of course, to look at the relative difference between each candidate. But it is also crucial to look at the actual support level for each candidate, and McCain's support has been losing support all summer.

Absolutely. Its also important to look at where there support is coming from. McCain has already gotten pretty much all of the Bush approval voters (it took longer than most of us thought it would), but he is only getting 20% of disapprovers.

The remaining undecided voters are 4-1 disapprovers.

Can somebody tell me a concrete way McCain will be different from Bush?

[Crickets chirping]

Its really hard for me to see McCain getting to 50%.

Andrew said...

A surprise would also seem to require a lot of foresight. Consider if we were to be surprised a choice of Webb. Essentially the decision would have been made long ago, before the vetting process had fully made its way around. Nevertheless, aiming for a surprise, Webb plays along and officially removes himself from the running. Then...surprise!

It's a difficult scenario to imagine. Same for Gore. That is, unless they were later convinced to join the ticket afterall. Democratics are flip-floppers afterall.

BlackCoffeeDrinkingLiberal said...

beowulf said...

Gore has flatly refused

Definitely?

Separate subject: according to NYT, Hillary is/was being vetted (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/us/politics/20veep.html), but Bill has played pretty loose since 1/20/01, which could take the air out of Georgian lobbying points (if anyone pays attention to that except the people reading and posting here right now).

Re Powell, he sounds good as a shocker, but he did give the UN speech presenting Bush/Cheney lies about WMD in Iraq. Hard to imagine him on a ticket with BHO (even if he has since recanted, sort of).

clarkejeffrey said...

Re Powell, he sounds good as a shocker, but he did give the UN speech presenting Bush/Cheney lies about WMD in Iraq. Hard to imagine him on a ticket with BHO (even if he has since recanted, sort of).

I get the impression that Powell is really embarrassed by that. All of the internal reports have said that Powell was the only voice of reason inside the Bush white house and that is why he was ultimately asked to resign.

I wouldn't have a problem with Powell. A lot of people were deceived by Bush. Powell would be a sign that we're not complete extreme ideologues.

beowulf said...

BlackCoffeeDrinkingLiberal - This is the best video I could find on short notice, but he has been very clear in multiple interviews that he has no desire or drive to even consider being in the administration in any role.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_2DJ54R91o

Darren said...

Gore? Powell? Kerry? Has Gore even officially endorsed Obama yet? Powell has firmly stated he won't attend the Dem convention and has demurred from even endorsing out of respect for McCain. And he is an unwilling candidate - remember he very publicly declined to run in 1996 and 2000 when real opportunity existed. Kerry - well, Dukakis isn't on the short list either.

No former nominee has ever been offered the VP slot for the obvious reasons that the public already rejected them and that it would pierce their ego to accept the 2nd position (especially if too old to run in 8 years).

The last time any A-lister was selected for VP was George Bush in 1980 after giving Reagan a run for his money in the primaries. Equivalent to a Romney or Hillary selection this year.

Sedi said...

"The last time any A-lister was selected for VP was George Bush in 1980 after giving Reagan a run for his money in the primaries."

Imagine, Reagan picking Bush, after Bush attacked him during the primary, even coining the term "voodoo economics." And how did that work out for Reagan?

tomthress said...

"Has Gore even officially endorsed Obama yet?"

June 16th in Michigan. It got pretty big media coverage at the time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/us/politics/17campaign.html

Adam said...

The more I read about this, and see video of different prospects, the more Schweitzer sticks out as an incredibly good fit. Unfortunately this probably means it will be Kerry.

vinraeth said...

I don't know why anyone would want Gore. He's been far more effective out of the VP office than he ever was in it.

Personally I'm pulling for Biden.

BlackCoffeeDrinkingLiberal said...

beowulf said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_2DJ54R91o

To answer my own question, that seems pretty definite. Maybe he thinks it'll be counterproductive for his bipartisan initiative; maybe it would be.

clarkejeffrey said...

Powell would be a sign that we're not complete extreme ideologues.

Speak for yourself.

As it turns out, his On the Issues page (http://www.ontheissues.org/colin_powell.htm) is extreeemly dated, but his positions could qualify him as a RINO, which probably could also qualify him for DLC membership.


What's interesting about this discussion is that it bears out the title of the thread: "Nobody Knows Anything." But it's civil, which is awfully nice.

Brian said...

Or Richardson and put Texas in play...

Pssst said...

All of the internal reports have said that Powell was the only voice of reason inside the Bush white house and that is why he was ultimately asked to resign.

Yes, although my understanding is that Powell himself chose to resign, and did so as soon as he felt it was appropriate. If anyone is unsure of Powell's true feelings toward the neo-cons, I think the biggest hint is how he called them "f***ing crazies" during the run-up to the Iraq invasion. :-)

But darren is right: Powell has said he won't attend the Dem convention, so he'd be an extremely unlikely pick.

Daniel said...

Unfortunately, Obama is running the ultimate safety-first campaign -- drip, drip, drip is the sound of electoral votes moving from Obama's slate to undecided.

It will be either Bayh, Kaine or Biden -- Biden is by far the best of the three. Sebelius offers nothing (no attack dog, no experience and a slap in Hillary supporters face).

If Obama had any balls, he'd figure out a way to tap Powell or he should ask Hillary, take the bad with the good.

Russell said...
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such sweet thunder said...

Gore: 60 now, 68 in '16
Biden: 66 now, 74 in '16
Dodd: 64 now, 72 in '16
Clinton: 61 now, 69 in '16
Sebelius: 60 now, 68 in '16


El Granador, this is incredibly shallow, but that's a good looking group for being in their sixties -- I hope we can all do so well, be it through botox plastic surgery, what have you.

If we're talking bombshells, the biggest possible would be General Patreaus. After all, John McCain just announced he's one of the three men he respects most -- how's that for taking the wind out of attack ads.

No idea if the General is a Dem or Rep but we do know that he broke with the administration and announced that the military was ready to let gays serve openly, and that Obama railed moveon earlier in the summer for attacking his patriotism.

clarkejeffrey said...

clarkejeffrey said...

Powell would be a sign that we're not complete extreme ideologues.

Speak for yourself.


OK. I would like Obama to offer some significant posts to RINOs and I'm hoping if he gets elected, he governs from a center left position and not an extreme left position.

I think the biggest mistake that the Republicans made was that after winning the presidency by the narrowest possible margin, they ended up with control of all three branches and went ahead and governed like the American people had given a large mandate to the most extreme policies.

We live in a closely divided country. We can continue this seesaw war of electing one side and going to an extreme and then electing the other and going to the other extreme or we can learn to govern from the middle.

If Bush had used his high popularity after 9/11 to make some common sense center right policies, the Republicans might be tying down control for a generation. He went the other direction.

Ultimately, I think Obama is going to win and have a large Dem majority in congress behind him. I just hope that we don't repeat Bush's mistake.

ogre said...

50-some posts and no one dropped the other name I think would be a good (effective) shocker.

I'd be happy with Sebelius or Schweitzer.

But if you want shock--and assumign that Gore really, really doesn't want to play (and Obama didn't want him bad and find a way to twist his arm... but I doubt it), then the only big name surprise I can think of would be...

Dean.

Long experience as governor, and had that weird support pattern that no one ever adequately explained (but would work well with Obama), drawing best from the left of center of the Democratic Party, as well as with the right wing of the Party and independents. Just not in the "center". But the center's not going to vote McCain, and is fairly happy with Obama. But Dean's done very well as Chairman, and everyone knows who he is...

So, shock value? Dean.

AxmxZ said...

Until the Pickler article was corrected, it labeled Joe Lieberman the "Democratic vice presidential prick in 2000 who now is an independent."

Warms the cockles of your heart.

Alex S. said...

Shock Value and big name?

Jimmy Carter


lol




P.S.: Gore really doesn´t want it and Kerry is as anticlimactic as it could get. Powell - not a chance. We have now seen Kaine, Bayh and Biden being in the center of media attention. Sebelius has slipped out of the view a little, her intrade numbers show it. But she still has the WOW-factor of being a woman (and being on various shortlists), that also applies to Clinton, who also has the WOW-factor of being Hillary Clinton. But Clinton and Obama can´t even agree on what the convention should be about... (or it´s a really, really, really, sneaky play they have been performing for us.)

ogre said...

Alex S.

Nah, he's even older than McSame.

And I think, given the way the rest of his campaign's run, that underestimating Obama's having the convention planned out is... foolish, wishful thinking.

He took out HRC in a contest which she was expected to win, favored to win, had the advantages... and he didn't do that by accident or through failure to plan.

clarkejeffrey said...

I just read that McCain is going to do it next Friday at a huge 10,000 person rally.

Why is he so arrogant and presumptuous? He can't do it in a hotel ballroom. Does he already think he's president or something?

Obviously I don't really think these things. I just wanted to point them out for our GOP friends that criticized Obama endlessly for holding his speech in a football stadium. They implied that large rallies were somehow tacky and that it wasn't just a lack of interest that stopped McCain from holding his own.

I will note that I really seriously doubt that McCain will pick a Ridge or a Lieberman at this point. The people that attend rallies are pretty partisan and imagine would generally be right wing Republicans. What happens if he picks Lieberman and the 10,000 people actually start booing?

I think Obama's people have given him a little more discretion in making his choice. I don't see that sort of disapproval being registered with any of the finalists.

Patrick said...

Powell sounds like a good choice, but I just don't know if the USA is ready for a black VP.

cowbat friend said...

How about Michael Phelps for VP? He can't seem to wrong this year.

Ian said...

As a Virginian, I hope he doesn't choose Kaine. He's rather mediocre and lacks military/foreign policy experience to boot.

cowbat friend said...

'ian', i think virginia is a diverse enough state for supposed lack of foreign affairs experience not to matter. remember, too, that the world can be seen in a grain of sand let alone such a sizable place as virginia. not sure why politicans need 'military' experience either- i don't recall cardinal richelieu, to name but one example, having any and yet he had 17th century Europe wrapped round his little finger (notwithstanding a few pesky muskehounds). the question is how good a politician is Kaine? the same q goes for all prospective veeps and whichever one O chooses will be an indication of how good a pol he is.

Darío said...

I think the best options are Bayh and Warner.

PeteKent said...

Mrs. Otis Regrets (Joe Biden)

Biden brings experience and judgment to the table, but also a propensity to show off. You want your VP to follow your lead. Still he is a Party Icon and would add gravitas to the ticket and could possibly, as was suggested above, help in PA (not a consideration to be dismissed).

I heard last night that Mrs. Obama, however, has nixed him. More and more these Obamas are looking like the Clintons. Another co-presidency in the making?

Biden, now that he has been put on the shortest of lists, will be hard to spurn, so he still gets my bet.

Bayh is blah and Kaine is a nobody.

Obama cannot afford to run with someone like Kaine who has so little experience. Me? I think he should pick Clark.

Still, I think Mrs. Clinton's stock may be rising. More and more it appears he needs her to unify the party and put old wounds to rest. Of course he risks opening up a whole new can of worms, but that's what makes this so much fun.

Portman looks more and more like the guy for McCain, if you ask me. Interesting that he is rumored to be making the announcement in Dayton, OH, on his birthday, Friday Aug 29, the day after THE SPEECH. Very close to Portman's old turf in SE OH near Cinti.

Jayne4Obama said...

I really hope it is Biden. Remember - one of the two important things the VP pick does is debate the other VP pick - Biden is a really great debater.
He also takes care of Obama is not experienced enough. I think the country would be comfortable imagining him as President.

joe mc said...

I haven't heard any speculation about Bill Richardson. He's got the experience that Obama's supposedly lacking. He's got a great story. He picks up the Hispanic vote. He's from a region that Obama could use a little help in. His only drawback I can see is that he's Hispanic. I hate to say it but a Black guy/Hispanic guy ticket may push a big chunk of the scared white guy vote away. Very sad. I think he'd be a great VP choice. Clark would make a better secretary of defense.

filistro said...
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Stuart said...

Hagel would have major shock value. That choice would destroy the McCain attack machine

Josh said...

Al Gore would be amazing. I think he would basically guarantee victory.

Cugel said...

"If Bush had used his high popularity after 9/11 to make some common sense center right policies, the Republicans might be tying down control for a generation. He went the other direction.

Ultimately, I think Obama is going to win and have a large Dem majority in congress behind him. I just hope that we don't repeat Bush's mistake."


This is a key point that Republicans never are able to grasp. Karl Rove convinced Bush that "there is no middle." Thus, there's no point in trying to get elected playing to the middle and the only thing that matters is gearing up the base with red meat attacks on your opponents.

It doesn't matter what anybody thinks, just so long as there are 51% of us and only 49% of you!

That's actually true as far the 1st election goes. But, it didn't NEED to be true for the next 8 years!

Bush could have governed as a consensus middle of the road President after 9-11 when he had close to 90% support. He would have won in 2004 with a coalition the size of Reagan's 1984 win, except that Republicans would have the same kind or larger majorities that Democrats now have in the House.

Instead he invaded Iraq and gave the big middle-finger to everybody who disagreed with him (Republicans included - "We're not here to elect Republicans" he sneered).

When you think about what a once-in-a-generation chance to consolidate permanent power Bush blew it's staggering.

Of course, he couldn't have given all those no-bid contracts to Haliburton and run the treasury like it was a private piggy-bank for his rich cronies (Bush: "The haves and the have-mores. Some call you the elite, I call you my base.")

Reagan NEVER had a chance to create a life-time coalition the way Bush did. Now look at the resurgence of liberalism, Bush's main legacy aside from utter failure at every policy and the lingering destruction of New Orleans.

Obama has to avoid making the Bush mistake of governing for the next 8 years like he's trying to get to 51% in Ohio.

Steve Roth said...

Seems odd to me.

According to this source:

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2008/08/obama_to_genera/index.php

The Obama campaign is either ignoring Clark or actively putting him at arm's length.

Odd because: Clark's clearly a big asset, and what Obama describes as one "inartful" comment doesn't change that.

And the Obama campaign certainly knows how to field its assets. They might not play him up a lot, but ignoring him? Doesn't seem to make sense.

All of which suggests to me an incredibly well-executed head fake.

But whaddo I know? I'm an inveterate wishful thinker.

jdk said...

Jerry Brown! where there is no vision the people perish.

But let's go back to the historical record. Except for Agnew, when has the winning ticket not won the home state of both the Pres. and VP candidates?

Never?

So if O picks Bayh or Kaine, then IN or VA become the central focus of the campaign.

I think Biden is a likeable dope, but he's from DE (which used to be a bell weather state and still has a few bell weather counties), a catholic and helps two ways on the experience charge - a) he currently plays as experienced and b) his job before Senate was as a county commissioner!

I also hear his speaches as so good they should be published -- (actually they were in England.)

jdk said...

How about this for a wow?

Obama lets the convention decide!

Baz744 said...

Love the blog. I check it more than once per day. Great work.

I'm strongly pro-Obama. To me, Hillary would be the best choice for VP provided she can be trusted.

Unfortunately, her conduct in the primary leaves that open to question. Her tactics were transparently oriented to undermining Obama's chances in the general election. I expect more from a Democrat. I expect a Democrat--even one angry that she's losing a primary election--to put party interest ahead of personal interest. Hillary failed the smell test of party loyalty.

That being said, she would bring a LOT to the ticket. There is very little doubt in my mind that if she truly backed the Obama/Clinton ticket, the team would be practically unstoppable. You have the obvious assets of party unity, energizing the Democratic base, and wowing the press to drown out all McCain press coverage for the next month. But add to that the combined fundraising potential of the ticket, and holy cow.

Can Hillary be trusted? Or would she use the VP slot to try to subtly sink the ticket?

ogre said...

Ah, PeteKent, you despise copresidencies?

How quickly you forget Reagan and Nanny ("Mommy") Reagan. Remember the astrologer giving advice to the presidential couple?

At least Democratic copresidents are expected to be educated and capable.

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