8.14.2008

McCain Improves With Base, Obama Stays Flat

Good news for John McCain in one key area – Pew finds his base support is firming up while Barack Obama’s continues to hold steady. Last month, the two candidates held an even share of the base at 83%. While Obama is holding steady after quickly consolidating most of Clinton’s support (69% in June, 72% since July), McCain has 88% support of his Republican field-mates’ former support, up to 87% overall of the Republican base from 83% in June.





Pew has an even more interesting chart measuring hard support compared with swing voters. While 35% support Obama with no chance of supporting McCain and 32% support McCain with no chance of supporting Obama, one in three remain swing voters. Of these, 36.4% lean Obama with a chance of McCain, 33.3% lean McCain with a chance of Obama, and 30.3% are truly undecided.



Each candidate’s supporters can find solace in the numbers. McCain supporters will be happiest knowing the "McCain, no-chance-Obama" supporters have upticked from 29% to 31% to 32% since June and that Obama’s support from the "no-chance-McCain" group dropped from 38% to 35% in July and stayed steady at that number in August. Among former Clinton supporters, the percent planning to support McCain in the fall upticked slightly from 17% to 18%.

Obama supporters will note that within the swing voters group, August’s 36.4% lean Obama - 33.3% lean McCain - 30.3% undecided pattern has reversed itself from June, when it was 36.4% undecided - 33.3% lean McCain - 30.3% lean Obama. Assuming an equal likelihood of Obama leaners flipping to McCain as McCain leaners flipping to Obama, McCain would have to win a hard break of better than 70% true undecideds to win the popular vote (often, but not exclusively, a proxy for an electoral win). Another bit of good news here for Obama's supporters is that among former Clinton supporters who weren’t sure who they’d choose in the fall, Obama has gained roughly 75% of the ones who’ve now made up their minds.

If the 3/4 pattern among the supported-Clinton-but-now-undecided continues to break at the same 3/4 rate for Obama, we can expect a roughly 80-20 split of former Clinton supporters overall (if we assume he does not eat into any of the Clinton-to-McCain voters between now and the election, an assumption to be tested after Clinton's performance at the convention and on the trail). This would mean that McCainocrats would out-percentage Obamacans as a percentage of each party’s respective base. However, a word of caution: many of those who consider themselves Obamacans may have switched party identification to Democratic or independent over the past four years and would thus not be counted in the percentage of Republican base McCain support.

The bottom line in the Pew findings is that McCain is steadily consolidating his base while Obama is treading water, so McCain's supporters should take more comfort. On the cusp of a VP pick that could impact McCain’s numbers with his base support, it’s useful to take a
snapshot of where we are. For example, the floated idea of pro-choice Tom Ridge (who would “deliver” PA, per Chris Matthews) might be very unpopular with many members of McCain’s base and reverse this trend in the polling that is helping McCain stay very close behind Obama. Though there are rumblings from the Democratic blogosphere that Evan Bayh would represent an unacceptable choice because he supported the Iraq War, for example, I’m not sure I buy a hands-sitting affair by Dems over something relatively insignificant like a VP choice, particularly when we are told that picking Bayh would be an olive branch to Clinton Dems who Obama has not fully reeled in yet.

One key difference between base Democratic objection to Obama choosing someone like Bayh versus base Republican objection to McCain choosing someone like Ridge is that Dems do not mistrust Obama on ending the Iraq War and would not suddenly do so if Obama picks an Iraq War-supporter, whereas the Republican mistrust of McCain is about his commitment to social conservative issues that would be badly shaken by picking a pro-choice running mate.

120 comments

PeteKent said...

Alarming results for Obamabots.

I think this demonstrates that Obama does in fact have soemthing of a ceiling and it will be difficult for him to move further support to his column.

He is so well known. He offers the change the country yearns for. He is running against an enormously unpopular Republican Party. He is young. He is charasmatic. He cares about us.

What more can the electorate ask for?

Mrs. Clinton?

Sean's analysis is borne out by the alarming meltdown in Obama's lead in MN, much of which seems to be attributable to solidification of Rep support for McCain.

Worse, despite the hoopla over the Rally in Denver, McCain has now valuted into the lead and erased a significant Obama advantage.

As I mused about this morning, CO and MN have indeed confirmed that the movement we saw yesterday in NV and WI was not just a fluke or statistical noise.

Regional trends are brewing and, yes, there is a regression to the mean. Regression to the Republican mean.

Notice the Supertracker turning down and the spikes in the graphic dipiction of the EV simulation moving left, perversely toward McCain.

Alex S. said...

The Republicans are under siege. They have no choice but to rally behind their frontrunner. Obama however, really needs the convention to continue with the unification of the party and actually win the race. The Republican voters have shrunk to the dedicated core, whereas the Democrats live in a rather big tent now, relatively spoken. Of course, the GOP would even be able to field a strong team in an even more unfavoring climate, they are just that strong.

Besides, the Wednesday schedule for the Democratic Convention is up. The speakers are interesting, and yes, they refute all early interpretation.

http://www.demconvention.com/the-2008-convention-wednesday-august-27th-securing-americas-future/

Alex S. said...

Pete,

it´s not Obama who has reached the ceiling, it´s McCain. A registered Democrat is OF COURSE much more likely to vote for Obama than for McCain - McCain won´t win those voters.

McCain has also not "valuted into the lead". I don´t know what your measure of the state of the race is, but if it´s this site it´s a 60-40 for Obama at the moment.

The mean is not Republican. The mean is +9 for Democrats, according to Party Identification.

The supertracker is not an active part of the development, he is the result and will only reflect what the numbers say.

PeteKent said...

Alex what a load of nonsense!

This shrinking dedicated core of the Rep Party is beginning to kick your ass.

If you are relying on the Rally at Denver to bring about the party unity you crave, check the news: Obama has conceded that Mrs. Clinton can have her roll call.

Hillary is turning Barack into a Eunuch.

Expect a further slippage in the polls for Obama as the news of the roll call and its implications gets out. Many of the Clinton supporters who had resolved themselves to Obama may move to undecided as they await the results of the Colorado smack down.

Obama must pick Sibelius now (NOT!).

The Oaf Schweitzer is done. The West is not really in play to the degree that he can help. Biden is a show horse. Bayh offends the Daily Kos crowd. Richardson is too ethnic. Perhaps it should be Clark. A good choice with Georgia in the news.

PeteKent said...

Alex,

I meant McC has vaulted in the lead in CO.

History has shown that many registered Dems have a penchant for voting Rep. Recall the Reagan Dems, many of whom live in Macomb Cy, MI.

Makes you shiver, huh?

Tyrone said...

I, as a McCain supporter, don't know who McCain should pick, but in my opinion it should be either Romney or Palin.

Romney helps McCain on the economy, while Palin could help McCain with women, who are breaking more for Obama right now.

DCM in FL said...

I know better than to feed the parerots but:

Pete Kent said...

"Regression to the Republican mean."

correction - Pete meant to say "Mean Republicans regressing"

come on Pete - is that the best you can do tonight ?

As usual he lifted his rants from the dittohead talking points for today.

"pete want a cracker"

it is just noise & parrot screeching

DCM in FL said...

ROFLOL - Pete actually claims that McCain has VAULTED to the lead in CO !

that is just too funny - even Rasmussen doesn't try to spin it that much !

it is a 1 point lead with the numbers rounded .

vaulted, right. maybe Pete is watching Olympics gymnastics ???

how droll for a troll

Alex S. said...

"A further slippage in the polls for Obama once the roll call and its implications get out"?

Here´s the implication:

"I'm very pleased and I'm somewhat surprised," said Darragh Murphy, the group's executive director. "In my view, she's sticking up for her delegates, and she's going to take a lot of heat for this." Sam Arora, a spokesman for the now-dormant Vote Both said of Obama: "He is giving former Clinton supporters more and more reasons to support him."

taken from:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20080814/clinton-obama/

That Darragh Murphy is the executive director of PUMA. If there is any implication it´s that Obama will actually GAIN support.

Mark said...

Nothing unexpected here. It will be interesting to see how the conventions affect this:

On the Democratic side, the issue of party unity could be largely laid to rest if HRC is gracious and appropriately deferential toward the nominee; the risk being run by her name being placed in nomination is that it will reopen old wounds and add fuel to the fire of the PUMA movement.

On the Republican side, a bunch of old guards and independents alike trotting out McCain's credentials could boost his numbers; on the other hand, if the presence of the Bush administration officials 60-90% of registered voters have come to know and hate is too visible, a solid Democratic ad campaign could reverse McCain's gains among swing voters and independents.

As I've said, I expect Obama's numbers to tick upward once the debates get underway.

jeremy said...

I think McCain will pick Lieberman. It's too risky for him to hope these uncommited democrats will defect to him, he needs Lieberman to prod them. McCain has his base and it's not big enough for him to win. Picking a conservative will not help increase his supporters only guarantee they stick around.

PeteKent said...

That PUMA guy is in on it. Y'all are about to get rolled!

Obama fell by four points in CO in just a couple fo weeks. I'd call it a vault. He leaped over Obama, didn't he?

Anthony said...

Are these figures the lowest win % for Obama, since 7/22?

Does this mean the strategy of winning CO,NM and NV and being competitive in ND, SD and MT are dead?

Lupercal said...

petekent, it is so much fun reading you. love the convoluted spins.

I actually think that this is a very shrewd and calculated move by the obama campaign. by giving the impression that mccain is competing and might actually win, he's giving the media a reason to fully vet mccain and grill him properly, not allow him to become the "safe, steady, likable alternative" to barack obama. it's a brilliant move to counter the nascent narrative that this race is a referendum on obama (it's a referendum on bush/mccainomics and neocon FP).

And any time mccain is subjected to investigative rigor, he just melts. (iraq-pakistan border, cechoslovakia, 16-month timehorizon, you get the idea).

I never really thought they were that good. they're pretty much letting him self-destruct.

if i were a gop member, i'd pray for obama to be pulling away with a 15-point lead. it's the best thing that could happen to them.

MATT J. H. said...

If the republican posters believe McCain is going to win, why are you trying so hard to convince us. Don't you have confidence in your candidate?

All this bad news Obama is getting, and the guy is on vacation in Hawaii. He looks really worried. I can see the fear in his eyes. He was so worried about his prospects, that he decided to go visit his grandmother. Maybe she has some advice on how to recover his failed candidacy after the disastrous polling in Colorado, where Obama is behind by 1 point.

De Montfort said...

In a year where Dem ID is 10% higher than GOP id, McCain will need more than drawing even in party support with Obama. He'll need significant Dem defections and to win the Indys.

MATT J. H. said...

If this thing was a blowout, it wouldn't be interesting. If Obama was up by 8-10 points, nobody would be watching or posting. This is great.

Obama should put Hill on the ticket just for the drama. Can you imagine Obama,Hillary and Bill for the next 2 months. The media would have a field day.

stop_the_stutter said...

PK,
As much as I'd like to agree that McCain has vaulted into the lead, this state is WAAAY to close to say that. We need a couple more with McCain on top for that. All this poll does, along with the Q poll here, is prove that this is not a blue state. It may not be red, but it sure as hell ain't blue.

This is a positive result for McCain, but he needs to build on it more. My electoral map is now 274-264 McCain. That's the first time I can say that I have McCain in the lead since June 2nd.

I have him up in NV, CO, VA, IN, and OH. I have Obama up in MI, and NH.

clarkejeffrey said...

This poll has odd partyID numbers.

They are showing D-R at 2.8%. If Obama is winning a D-R2.8 poll by 3 points, I think he is doing much better in a more realistic universe. I keep reading about how this poll shows great things for McCain but I just don't see it.

Unless D-R really equals 2.8%, in which case Obama has a problem

Darío said...

stop_the_sutter.
I can see your electoral map?.

DCM in FL said...

Anthony,

yes, Nate's projections have all regressed to approximately the same position in EV & Win as where 538 stood on or about 7/22 [3 weeks ago].

much noise & celebrating/nashing of teeth about nothing really.

Obama on vacation, Olympics on the air, regression to the mean, call it what you want.

Not bad news for McCain [who appeared to be slipping over the past 3 weeks] but then things are basically showing inherent stability & reverting to historical trends for the moment.

The campaign start in mid-September.

Darío said...

Jeremy.
McCain will pick Lieberman?
And they screw the conservative base!. I don´t think so.

jack black said...

stop the stutter,

You are right, we need a couple of more polls showing McCain ahead in Colorado before I feel better.

But right now, McCain is ahead in every Bush state but NM and Iowa. Nothing but good news there. After the Democratic Convention and the nation sees just how left wing OdUmbo really is, then McCain will be ahead in Michigan, Pn and now it looks like Minn. as well.

By the way Pete Kent, keep up the good writing, it won't be long before DCM in FL, a MCCain state, by the way, will be on this blog saying he had a stroke from what you have written. It's great to see so many people on this blog on the right side of the issues. God save America from Left Wing Retards.

clarkejeffrey said...

Its weird. I keep reading press accounts of this poll as a big statement. I just don't see it. I assumed that Romney/Huckabee Republicans would eventually break their boycott of McCain and go back to him. I assume the same thing about Clinton Democrats. They might not do it yet but I think they will after the debate.

What this poll showed me is Obama winning +4 among indies and also still winning nearly as many Dems as McCain gets Reps. If this continues, he'll win easily.

If this showed McCain winning more Dems or indies over, I'd be scared.

Darío said...

I don´t think McCain take MI and PA, but yes CO and NV. McCain doesn´t need MI and PA. If he takes all the Bush states he wins.

Bob said...

McCain has been spending heavily on advertising recently. More so than Obama. I think that this is showing in the polls. McCains ability to spend so heavily on ads stops after the Rep. convention.

stop_the_stutter said...

Dario,

where can I make one that I can post here (electoral map)?

JohnNYC said...

I'll be consistent and say again what I've been saying for the past few weeks out here:

One: I don't think State level polls mean anything until the middle of September for reasons I've rehearsed and that people either buy or don't. Implication: We Obama supporters should no more be worried today than we should be pleased.

Two: Thinking that we're going to "lock up" a state like Virginia anytime soon or embark on a NC, GA, MT Electoral Vote landside strategy is not rational. We're going to win this (and I firmly believe we will win) with a Reaganesque 51% or so of the popular vote (Reagan got 50.7% in another watershed election in 1980) and 273 Electoral Votes (Kerry's states plus CO, IA and NM) and maybe (maybe, mind you) a few more if things break just right at the end.

Three: he wins if he focuses, focuses, focuses. Protect MI, NH and PA; pick up CO, IA and NM; take anything else Johnny Mac's incompetence gives him. Thank the deities and pack the moving van.

PeteKent said...

Helpful observation, Jacki Black about how McC has come back in most of the Bush states.

Stutter, my map is getting to look like yours, but I still need to see more from CO and NV before I feel comfortable about them. Frankly VA makes me a bit queasy, but I have the Bradley Effect to rely on there.

clarkejeffrey said...

http://people-press.org/report/443/presidential-race-draws-even

I don't understand this poll. N=2414, but when you add up the D, R & I numbers you get 2319.

Also when I multiply those numbers by their corresponding percentages, I get Obama up 46-45 instead of 46-43. Where are the missing 95 voters who aren't D, R or I. Also I can see rounding errors on crosstabs slightly affecting the percentages but not adding 2 points to Mc's total. This is odd.

Can I reiterate the point that I made in the other post that I wished all polls gave us the breakdown on votes by Bush Approvers and Bush disapprovers?

clarkejeffrey said...

Frankly VA makes me a bit queasy, but I have the Bradley Effect to rely on there.

Don't forget. The Bradley effect goes both ways. Are you really counting on McCain getting 17% support among AfrAmer. Remember the VA primary!!

stop_the_stutter said...

bob,

But then the debates start. That is what most McCain people are looking forward to. We really feel that he will outclass Obama when it comes time for debates.

Obama stutters, stammers, and looks lost for a coherent, sharp thought when he is not giving a speech. I'm not trying to knock him here. This is truthfully the way I see it.

Virginia Conservative said...

The swiftboaters are just starting their engines.

This is the beginning of the end for the Obama Cult, folks.

The base is coming home!

adzam said...

Pete,
McCain isn't vaulting to anything.

The so called Bradley effect has been thoroughly debunked. If anything Dem primaries showed the reverse.

How could you possibly be comfortable about CO or NV at all at this rate. Still completely toss-up and the campaign hasn't started yet.

Polls up until now are preseason rankings. Let the games begin...

DCM in FL said...

JACK,

you had a decent post above. you are welcome to a rational partisan discussion based on facts or at least on point to the prupose of this site.

But McCain is not quite ahead in all the red states at the moment.

You have a hard time claiming that CO, VA & OH are McCain leads.

check the polls on the right. at best he is a statistical tie or even behind in OH per Nate & Qui...

nice try though.

reality bites. the polls show a race but the closest states are ALL RED that McCain must carry to win the EV by a hair...

still, at the moment the angry old codger has a prayer if he doesn't implode in the next 2 1/2 months.

Darío said...

The base is coming home only if McCain doesn´t put Lieberman.

De Montfort said...

I also wonder how much Mccain's pro choice comment will effect things in the next poll. The politico article on it has a lot of concern from the religious base on what should have been a minor comment.

clarkejeffrey said...

But then the debates start. That is what most McCain people are looking forward to. We really feel that he will outclass Obama when it comes time for debates.

I really disagree. Did you read my post on undecideds in the earlier thread? The undecided population is considerably more liberal than the decided population. Obama will start locking up some of these people in the debates.

McCain will also be walking a very tightrope. He will have to say things to motivate his base while also appealing to independents. Obama will go straight for the middle.

Obama slightly underperformed Hillary in the debates but he held his own with the biggest policy wonk in the world. McCain is no Hillary Clinton, even without the tightrope he'll be forced onto.

adzam said...

Just wait for the fall-out from McCain's WWIII saber rattling vs. Russia.

After sending is shadow state department to Georgia, his comments regarding presumption are as empty as the candidate himself.

stop_the_stutter said...

I think we will see Obama leaners go into the voting booth in November, face the machine and say "Oh, S&#T. This is for real. Should I really vote for a guy with so many question marks and shady people around him? Can I trust a guy of his ideology and background?"
I am counting every poll at face value. Even the ones that I feel lean left (PPP, Quinnipiac) or right (Strategic Vision). But in my vision of election day, I am shifting EVERY state 4 points toward McCain for the above reasoning.

clarkejeffrey said...

Does all the Bush states include NM and IA?

DCM in FL said...

clarkejeffrey,

you quoted Pete's post about his queasy feeling.

Man, how did you pass on that setup ?

PETE - take some pink pepto for that queasy feeling you get from gnawing on putrid red meat....

or perhaps he has a conscience ????

Mark said...

I have a feeling the debates are going to recall 1960 more than 1984.

Darío said...

McCain leads the last Colorado poll of Rasmussen but Rasmussen Markets data shows that Democrats are currently given a 61.0% chance of winning Colorado’s nine Electoral College votes this November.
This is important too.

stop_the_stutter said...

clarkejeffery,

Obama will not take McCain in a debate. Those debate was the Red Sox vs. the Red Sox.

This one is the Red Sox vs. the Yankees. And it won't be in front of a homefield crowd. He has to appeal to both sides of the spectrum as well as the middle. He will show his inexperience, stammer and "uh" more than he should, and come across something like Admiral Stockdale did in 1992.

DCM in FL said...

STUTTER,
" But in my vision of election day, I am shifting EVERY state 4 points toward McCain for the above reasoning."

if only your neocon dreams reflected facts or reality.

well I give 5 points to Obama so my vision cancels out yours & Obama wins !!!

such a lame flamer

PorridgeGun said...

Obama is flat with me right now. In fact, he's been flat for the past 3 weeks. And yet he's still leading nationally and still has his path(s) to victory. His VP pick will either excite the base or depress it. We shall see.


Posted on the previous thread:


Holy sheeeeet, the wingnuts are out in force tonight. A statistical tie in Colorado and a 4 point for Obama lead in Minnesota. Indeed, it's party time in Freeptard U.S.A



Here's my take. Post-European tour, Obama lost a crucial week to trivia and negative attack ads - courtesy of Rove/Schmidt/McCain. As a result he was down in the state and national polls. No biggie.

The following week Obama was back on the campaign trail proper, and as a result, regained his advantage in the polls. He then went on vacation just as the Edwards and Russia/Georgia stories broke. Obama hasn't been in the news all week, McCain has been grandstanding all week trying to start World War III. Oh, and the "liberal media" have predictably been giving free airtime to conservative fruitball, Jerome Corsi. After his performance on Larry King, that'll surely change, especially now that the Obama camp have released a 40 page factcheck to the media. Mark Halperin is apparently the first to recieve it. They're also planning to delve into Corsi's background and past statements.


Corsi is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist to boot.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/anti-obama-author-on-911-conspiracy/


How are the FOX Noise wingnuts gonna react to that? There's also a YouTube video making the rounds which mocks Corsi for a Jan. 29 interview on Alex Jone’s radio show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yCfI3VmL88


The blogs have been frustrated with the Obama camp's response to McCain's smear tactics. Despite Obama taking the hign road and consistently leading in the polls, they've been itching for weeks for Obama to take the gloves off. I don't think anyone could argue with the fact that Obama has yet to scratch the surface on what he can throw at McCain.

Basically, I think Obama still has all his cards to play. For me, the 2008 campaign begins when Obama picks his VP. Whoever he picks will be extremely important, and it will set him up for Denver.

Just to underline my point above - How would an endorsement from Chuck Hegel and Colin Powell affect the polls and public opinion? Both are likely to come at some point. How would that play with undecideds and independents?

Virginia Conservative said...

Obama is the Wizzard of Uhhs.

adzam said...

Hey Stop,
You don't work for Diebold do you?

If not, you can shift what ever you would like. Can you expound on the logic? Which voters do you think will waffle?

Given the enthusiasm gap, do you think that your position is defensible?

Mark said...

STUTTER,

Speaking as an Obama leaner, I have to say I have no concerns about his "Muslim upbringing", his connections to Ayers or Wright or Rezko, or anything of that nature. I don't like the fact that his policies drift dangerously close to federal socialism, which I loathe, but I'll take that over four more years of idiotic, blundering, blustering neoconservatism in a heartbeat.

I don't speak for everyone who leans Obama, and out here in Oregon, I have to admit I'm somewhat insulated from the rest of America (somebody get the damn Rocky Mountain cultural barrier out of the way, or...I blame Idaho, actually), but I can definitely say that your conjecture doesn't apply to THIS Obama leaner.

DCM in FL said...

adzam;

good point, better than mine on STUTTER's vision of the future...

adzam said...

I'll take an um over a McCain creepy cackle any day...

and just wait for him to get riled and slip another "Gook" comment in there.

Done and done.

Virginia Conservative said...

Maybe Obama can call McCain a "typical white person" and "bitter" who "clings to guns and religion".

DCM in FL said...

who says this...

"my friends" with a snarky grin ???

oh, Paris' old white haired grinch

clarkejeffrey said...

This one is the Red Sox vs. the Yankees. And it won't be in front of a homefield crowd. He has to appeal to both sides of the spectrum as well as the middle. He will show his inexperience, stammer and "uh" more than he should, and come across something like Admiral Stockdale did in 1992.



No he doesn't have to appeal to both sides. How do you see that?

There is no doubt the liberal base is going to turn out for him. All he has to do is appeal to the center. McCain needs to appeal to both the center while still trying not to annoy his still very lukewarm base.

How is that difficult to see?

Cugel said...

Nate is really going to have to start policing his site. Every thread now is filled with people violating the "no assholes" rule.

Here's what Scott Rasmussen has to say about his Colorado polling showing a 1% McCain lead:

"The new findings are consistent with a nationwide trend showing statewide results becoming more consistent with recent electoral patterns. George W. Bush won Colorado by five points in Election 2004 and John McCain is running about four or five points behind Bush's 2004 numbers overall in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll. As a result, you’d expect Colorado to be a toss-up and that's what the current numbers suggest."

If McCain continued to run "four or five points behind Bush's 2004 numbers" of course he'd lose the election by 1.8% to 2.8%, i.e. Obama would win by about the same margin as Bush did in 2004. Not a blowout but a sizeable win for a non-incumbent. In short, it would look a lot like Nate's regression, with Obama winning somewhere around 286 EV. Nobody thought Bush's 2004 victory was "too small."

As for Colorado, it's more of the same thing here as nationally. McCain has been blanketing the Olympic coverage with negative attack ads. Colorado has about a +3% Republican voter ID advantage over Democrats unlike other swing-states, but Independents generally have broken for Democrats since 2004. So, rallying the base helps McCain, but it also means that he can't really consolidate Independents, who end up decided all our local elections (they constitute around 34% of voters, a larger group than Democrats and slightly larger than Republicans).

With the Convention here, it's already receiving a LOT of local coverage and local TV is promising many hours of coverage both of the convention at the Pepsi Center and the Obama acceptance speech at Mile High Stadium.

With McCain's support already at 88% while Obama is only at 83% that doesn't leave McCain much room to improve. Obama that Obama is still winning the race narrowly (nationally) despite trailing in party loyalty by 5% shows the size of the Democratic base this year. Given that Republicans are rallying AGAINST Obama, and not FOR McCain, it was easy to get them on board with negative advertising. However, Obama has plenty of chances to rally his much larger base between now and November.

adzam said...

I'm sure he can call McCain that...I doubt he will.

What is Typical about a man who dumped his handicapped first wife for a new, young, rich model? What's typical about a man who now owns 8 houses? who wears $500 italian loafers?

You can take a deep breath about the "bitter" comment. There is no doubt it plays well but Obama was attempting to address the disconnect between people voting against their own financial self interest. Any attempt to say otherwise (especially here) is intellectually dishonest.

John Nail said...

Everyone, relax. I posted on this on my blog yesterday

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/johnnail/gG5Fbh

And I think the announcement today that HRC will get put into nomination will allow a full catharsis and coming together for us in Denver culminating in Barack's speech. Originally I was suspicious of this but these Pew numbers convinced me that we need to allow the Clinton catharsis to play out so they will all join in enthusiastically.

The coming together of both factions would seem to add 4/5% to the base Obama number ( Nate, does that make sense?) and get us near or over 50%.

The convention esp. as it compares to the Repubs looks to be a good, motivational show will help as well.

PeteKent said...

Mark -- You said: Speaking as an Obama leaner, I have to say I have no concerns about his "Muslim upbringing", his connections to Ayers or Wright or Rezko, or anything of that nature. I don't like the fact that his policies drift dangerously close to federal socialism, which I loathe, but I'll take that over four more years of idiotic, blundering, blustering neoconservatism in a heartbeat.

An Obama leaner? What is going to take to seal the deal? Why are you on the fence, if none of that stuff matters to you?

I think you are a troll.

Virginia Conservative said...

Obama just can't close the deal!

Darío said...

What deal?

clarkejeffrey said...

Here are the facts:

McCain is currently leading 84-7 among people that approve of the Bush administration. He is currently trailing 63-20 among people that disapprove.

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/econ04aug2008_tabs.pdf

He has had slight upward movement in the last couple weeks but as the Pew poll showed, its come almost entirely out of Republicans. In other words, he has shored up the 84%.

The remaining battlefield is 4-1 Bush Disapprovers. How does he get to 50% in this environment?

I've yet to get a straight answer from any McCain supporter on this.

McCain needs to do two things. He needs to win roughly 90% of the Bush approval vote.

He needs to win 30% of the Bush disapprover vote.

By playing the typical Rove GOP attack politics, he has basically accomplished Goal#1.

How does he accomplish goal #2?

Its not at all obvious to me. He could probably do it by picking Lieberman as VP but he would completely destroy everything he has worked to on #1.

Thoughts?

Virginia Conservative said...

The election. Just like he couldn't close the deal in the primary. Instead of knocking her out, he bled Clinton to death.

In the general, he can't bleed someone to death. He needs a knockout.

He will come within 1 or 2% in Ohio, in Virginia, New Mexico, Colorado, New Hampshire, Alaska, and Montana. But he won't win. Thus he will FAIL, just like Kerry.'

I bet we will hear a lot of BS about a "stolen election" come November. I'll enjoy laughing! What will it be? The third "stolen" election in a row?

DCM in FL said...

CUGEL,

excellent post above.

much appreciated

clarkejeffrey said...

In the general, he can't bleed someone to death. He needs a knockout.

Not at all true. He will totally bleed McCain out. He is going to have a major advantage in money and volunteers.

He will be constantly offering McCain a no win situation. Spread your money too thin playing defense or leave vulnerable areas completely unprotected.

He'll also force McCain into choosing whether he wants to appeal to swing voters or lock down his base. Trust me, McCain will have a tough time doing both at the same time. Obama's base is already motivated. He can spend his whole time in the center.

Obama will win by outenduring. This match will go 15 rounds and Obama will probably win a split decision, but that is what he is good at.

Darío said...

You´re right but Kerry wasn´t 1 or 2% in VA, CO, AK and MT.
This election is different.

stop_the_stutter said...

clarkejeffrey,

84-7 for McCain with Bush approvers? Sounds like his base is consolidated already. THAT is what makes it difficult to see. Obama has to worry about comming across as too much of Rock Star with centrists and traditional Democrats.

That is part of the point I was making.

What you don't understand is that alot of right-leaners are HIGHLY. And by highly, I mean pretty friggin jacked up, just to go out and vote AGAINST Obama. Usually that isn't enough, but Obama comes off as such a militant leftist, borderline Socialist, that it may just be enough.

He can't hit 50% outside lib strongholds in this Democrat uptopia year. That doesn't raise a red flag with you?

PKfanclub said...

"I think you are a troll"

Tee-hee, he said it without a hint of irony. Just like he said that Obama's Olympic ads were "sticking his nose where it doesn't belong" mere hours before McCain dropped $6,000,000 on his own Olympic ads. Just like he predicted two weeks ago that McCain would imminently overtake Obama at Gallup, but is now left celebrating when Obama is "only" +3. Just like how he talks about Obama's "ceiling", despite McCain's own ceiling being in Obama's basement.

Never change, Pete Kent.

(I think Nate needs to make this site read-only)

Daniel said...

Why do you guys always take the McCain troll's bait? They only come on here to get under your skin when McCain shows an uptick in the polls. Just ignore them and they'll go away.

Obama has been out of the public eye this week, most people are on vacation and those that aren't are watching Michael Phelps kick some ass. The people still at home answering the pollster phone calls are the older crowd -- that's the statistical noise this week.

McCain is underperforming Bush by 4 points or so nationally -- he'll probably continue to do so and finish up at 47-48% on election day. If McCain gets 48% on 11/4 he will not win MN or MI or PA.

Obama has NM and IA on his side -- he needs to pick up one more state out of NV, CO, VA, IN, OH, or FL to get to at least 269 EVs.

So, I ask everybody posting on this blog - which candidate is in the better electoral position?

The state that will determine this race for Obama is VA -- this is shaping up and looking a lot like Webb vs Allen in '06. If McCain does not break 48% on 11/4, he will lose VA by 1.5%.

Rest easy, Obama will have a kick-ass convention, he'll hopefully pick a great VP and then wipe the floor with the wrinkly white haired dude in the debates.

Virginia Conservative said...

Read only!?

Comments are half the fun ;)

tomthress said...

This analysis of Pew is actually a month late. Note that all of their comparisons are comparing August to June. They can't compare to July because it would undermine this story.

As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, the change in Pew numbers from July to August (which is only a 2-point shift anyway) is entirely due to changes in the Party mix of Pew's sample.

In July, McCain won Repubs 86-7. That was essentially unchanged in August: 87-7. Obama actually improved among Dems from July (81-11) to August (83-10) as well as among Independents (42-43 in July to 45-41 in August).

The difference is that the % of Dems in Pew's sample fell from 39.1% in July to 35.0% in August.

If you normalize both months' results to Rasmussen's latest Party ID targets - 40.6% Dem, 31.6% Rep, 27.8% Indy - the results become as follows:

July, Obama wins 47 - 44
August, Obama wins 48 - 43

The exact OPPOSITE conclusion of what Pew reports - Obama arguably increased his lead by 2 points.

clarkejeffrey said...

84-7 for McCain with Bush approvers? Sounds like his base is consolidated already. THAT is what makes it difficult to see. Obama has to worry about comming across as too much of Rock Star with centrists and traditional Democrats.

Yes the base is consolidated because he is running a very traditional Republican campaign. But a very traditional Republican campaign is part of the reason why Bush is hated by so much of the
country.

McCain is getting only 20% from disapprovers. That is the key number. You need to improve that number and you need to do it while also not letting the 84% number go down. How do you do that?

He can't hit 50% outside lib strongholds in this Democrat uptopia year. That doesn't raise a red flag with you?

Not really. McCain is polling lower than Obama and I recognize who the voters are that are left.

The fact is that come election day, elections are almost always decided based on the popularity of the incumbent. I dare you to provide a contrary example.

Basically we'll get a lot of talk about continuity vs change and the people will make up their minds on that basis.

jonathan said...

McCain won't name a pro-choice running mate. By saying he'd consider it he's shoring up his "maverick" bona fides. The base will forgive for saying such silly things when he names Pawlenty or Huckabee or Dobson to his ticket.

Darío said...

McCain never put Huckabee in the ticket. He said Huckabe is a crazy.

Cugel said...

I just wanted to emphasize something from Scott Rasmussen's quote in my post above.

1. Despite all the trolls constantly harping on "In 2004 John Kerry was winning by x% today" Rasmussen is telling us that in HIS polling, McCain is trailing Bush's 2004 results of the same date by 4-5%.

2. If you plug Nate's numbers about party ID into Nate's spreadsheet (provided earlier on this site) you find:

a. McCain would have to get 93% of Republicans (5% more than he has) just to break even, assuming Obama did NOT rally any more of the Democratic base between now and election day, and assuming that both parties have 62% turnout (i.e. Obama's GOTV efforts don't give him any advantage, which is unlikely since he's invested a lot more in it than McCain has).

b. If Obama gets 85%, which means he rallies just 2% of the base -- leaving him 4% short of what Kerry got in 2004, and McCain gets 93% of Republicans (and they split Independents 47%-46% just like Bush did), then Obama wins the popular vote by 1.8%.

That's 0.5% MORE for Obama than the result currently showing on Nate's popular vote projection. It would give Obama a 60+% chance of winning, and he'd wind up with around 290 EVs. (Probably almost all the 40% chance for McCain would involve narrowly flipping Michigan).

c. If you assume that BOTH McCain and Obama are maxed out and don't move from this point (unlikely) then Obama also wins by 2.7%, which is about what you would expect from following the Gallup RV and Rasmussen LV daily trackers.

In short, McCain is going to have to do a LOT better than he is right now, and Obama is going to have to get ZERO increase in his base (both unlikely) for McCain to win.

This just illustrates what a serious head-wind McCain is facing in this election. He's doing MUCH better than a generic Republican, and is consolidating his base despite widespread dissatisfaction with Bush, but he's still losing and will lose unless something fundamental changes.

He pretty much has to hope that Obama fails to consolidate his base. That's McCain's only hope right now. He has to try and use the debates to prevent that from happening.

tomthress said...

"84-7 for McCain with Bush approvers?"

I would love to meet a member of that 7%. How do you decide that Bush is doing a good job as President but we need to elect "Change we can believe in"?

DarienCrow said...

There is one thing out there that you guys never talk or think about. You don't talk about it because you did it, but you just don't understand what you did or the magnatude of your action.

You committed the ultimate sin when it comes to politics.

Bill and Hillary Clinton are royalty to the Democrats. Bill was President of the United States for 8 years. He was the only Democrat to serve 2 full terms since Harry Truman. He was to Democrats what Ronald Reagan is to Republicans.

And you guys trashed and humiliated his wife... called him a racist... and threw him under the bus. All for Obama. There will be hell to pay for that. There will be an atonement. You will bleed somewhere because that was just unthinkable. We never would have done that to Ronnie.

PeteKent said...

I have a fan club now :)

If only I new ho0w to use the internets better, i might have my own blog,

Now get offa my lawn you kids!

stop_the_stutter said...

clarkejeffery,

How do you know what is going through those voters' minds? I think in a pinch most people will gravitate towards the safety of a known commodity with a good reputation.
McCain is performing insanely well given all the crap out there against the GOP brand right now. It really should raise a red flag. I would be at least somewhat concerned if I supporting Obama as to why he can't reach 50% in all but a handful of states.

How many states does he have a 10% lead or greater in? CA, WA, IL, HI, VT, MA, RI, NY, MD, and DC. That's really about it. Now I know McCain isn't much better, but with all the headwind, he is hanging around like a 12-seed in the NCAAs.

Cugel said...

The numbers I've quoted above would change IF the Party ID numbers that Rasmussen is currently reporting (40.6% Democrats, 31.6% Republicans) changes to favor Republicans.

Since Republican voter ID hasn't moved up at all since 2007 (it's been stuck around 31% all year according to Rasmussen's polling), Democratic party ID would have to come down.

Since Democratic party ID is about where it was in 2000, 39%-40% (up 3% since 2004), that would be tough to imagine. But, it could happen.

In 2004, Republican party ID bottomed out in March 2004, and went up until it was 37% (equal to Democrats) on election day. Bush's 2.8% win was therefore entirely due to his GOTV efforts beating those of Kerry's by that margin.

That also gives us something of a ceiling as to what a winning GOTV effort might achieve (i.e. around 2.8% of the popular vote).

tomthress said...

"Now I know McCain isn't much better, but with all the headwind, he is hanging around like a 12-seed in the NCAAs."

I know a little something about underdogs in NCAA tourneys. The way that most underdogs pull off upsets is to catch Goliath sluggish coming out of the gate, jump out to a big early lead, and then pray like hell that the clock runs out before the big boys have a chance to get the lead back. The way that almost never works is to play from behind the entire game, trying to keep the game close, and hoping that you can pull it out at the end. It doesn't work.

I root for a regular low-seeded NCAA tourney team. And this never works. The big dog takes the lead for good with 12 minutes to go, that becomes a 4-point lead with 10 minutes to go. You're thinking, well, if we can just get it to 2. Next thing you know, it's up to 6, then 8. Then, before you know it, there's less than two minutes to go, 3 of your starters have fouled out trying to keep the game close and the final score is a 15-point loss. But you can still brag to all of your friends that you were winning 28 minutes into the game.

Shap said...

Darien Crow said:
"And you guys trashed and humiliated his wife... called him a racist... and threw him under the bus. All for Obama."

What is it with Republican talking points and "throwing x under the bus"?? Do you remember when GWB threw John McCain under the bus in 2000?

Let's see, Obama throws people under the bus... McCain gets thrown under the bus... Who would you rather have as your President, the guy doing the throwing, or the guy getting thrown????

stop_the_stutter said...

Hmmm...I wouldn't care so much about the bus. I'd vote for the guy that keeps the capital gains tax where it is right now.

DarienCrow said...

Somebody needs to throw Shap under a bus because he just doesn't get it.

PorridgeGun said...

Virginia Conservative said...

"The election. Just like he couldn't close the deal in the primary. Instead of knocking her out, he bled Clinton to death."

Obama won Super Tuesday and went on a 14-state winning streak. He effectivly won the nomination during that time. Any objective analyst will tell you that. Then the Rev. Wright smear campaign hit the MSM and the were only too happy to run with it - didn't work. And then Mark Penn and the Clintons went all scorched earth-like. Why do you think she is still in debt, genius? She threw the kitchen sink at Obama.

Also, if a relative newcomer closed the deal in the middle of August, before he had even selected his VP and delivered his acceptance speech at the Convention, I'd question the American voter's engagement in the electoral process. Should McCrypt Keeper be thankful Obama hasn't closed the deal this early? Or are the wingnuts just grasping at straws?

MN said...

Are you crazy? Not worried? Look at his consistent betrayals of the base!

Well it seems team Obama has no idea what to do. Whee. WTF happened to him once he won the primaries? Way to kick your base and keep kicking.

Cugel said...

tomthress said...

"84-7 for McCain with Bush approvers?"

I would love to meet a member of that 7%. How do you decide that Bush is doing a good job as President but we need to elect "Change we can believe in"?


That just shows there's an irreduceable number of Republicans who will vote for any Democrat. Kerry got 6%. Obama currently gets around 11% of Republicans depending on the poll.

If he continues to get over 10% of Republicans, then obviously McCain can't improve his current standing much among Republicans (88% - 11% = 1%) more he can get at most.

And of course, third parties, write-ins, etc., will get around 1% of both parties just as in 2004. So, McCain has to concentrate on lowering Obama's percentage among Republicans, which is why he's making so many Swift-boat attack ads.

McCain currently gets around 15% or so of Democrats, so he'll get more Democrats than Bush did, (10%). If Obama can't rally more Democrats, he's limited to around 85% of them of course. He has to increase his base support.

There are a lot more Democrats than Republicans this year, so it's an easier job for Obama than McCain.

Shap said...

"Somebody needs to throw Shap under a bus because he just doesn't get it."

Oh, great. You're not gonna cry, are you?

DarienCrow said...

Not at all Shap. But in all rational thinking and the political climate for Republicans... this should not even be close.

We nominated McCain not because we loved him so much... we nominated him because he had the best chance to win.

Obama can't win this and it's painful to watch. He should have sat this one out and let Hillary crash on her own. Now he's taking himself out now because the Dems don't give you a second chance... ever.

Thanks for giving us the White House for at least another 8 years because this loss will fracture your party I would say for decades.

Mark said...

Tomthress, nice rescaling of the Pew numbers. It's all academic right now, but it really looks like this race is still where it was a month and a half ago.

Mark said...

Darien, don't count your chickens before they've hatched. Obama is still leading in the polls, and the VP selections, conventions, and debates are yet to be staged. This is by no means a runaway win for McCain just yet.

MATT J. H. said...

This is comical to listen to this evening. It really smacks of desperation on behalf of republicans. You get one days worth of polls and believe you have won?

One obviously outlier day and all of a sudden you have won? What will you say when there is an outlier day next week for Obama. Will you claim defeat then?

It's August, there have been no big events latley, the national trackers are right where they were last week.

I know you guys are sour over the last four years, but you don't have to sound like a bunch of eight year old girls cheering every time you get a good poll. It really sounds petty. So sad for you guys. I feel sorry for you.

Darren said...

Pew's internals are fascinating. Their stats on what drives each candidate's supporters help explain why McCain is attacking the way he is.

For starters, while 2/3 of Obama supporters can name something they like about McCain (mostly his experience), less than half of McCain supporters like anything about Obama. So despite the "enthusiasm gap", McCain seems to be at less risk of losing his supporters than Obama.

43% of Obama's weak supporters say that Obama's inexperience is what worries them most (40% named other concerns and only 17% said nothing worried them about him). McCain's "not ready to lead" ads are targeted directly at prying away Obama's soft supporters using their biggest concern.

The cross-tab comparisons with 2000 and 2004 show that McCain is doing much better among working-class whites than Bush, and much better among seniors. Again, this explains why McCain is pressing the "celebrity" and "not ready to lead" angles, as these messages resonate best with these groups.

This Pew poll is a treasure trove that explains much of what we've seen this summer. And it is generally bad news for Obama.

Redshift said...

DarienCrow:
He was to Democrats what Ronald Reagan is to Republicans.

What is it with Republicans and projection?

No, he wasn't. He was a successful president, and we were glad to have him, but we don't canonize our politicians like you guys do. We don't turn them into infallible figures that all our current politicians pretend to be rather than dare to have ideas of their own, because we're not a party populated by people desperately seeking an authority figure to tell them what to think. Consequently, we don't get spectacles like a Republican debate where rival politicians claim they are so much like Reagan that they would never raise taxes (which he did) or negotiate with enemy countries (which he did), nor an entire cult that clings like an article of faith to the idea that tax cuts never cause deficits, even as their party's past three presidents have piled up more debt than all other presidents combined (and which even the Reagan Administration realized was wrong, and reversed course on.)

We never would have done that to Ronnie.

Really? If Nancy Reagan had run for office, no one would have run against her?

Oh, yeah, I forgot, conservatism is at heart always an effort to restore a hereditary aristocracy, so I guess you've got that right.

You've done a fine job of describing Republicans, but you clearly don't know much about Democrats.

DarienCrow said...

No Matt... we are prepared to lose. What is comical is watching what should be a sure win for Dems turn into a probable loss.

We Republicans do not vote on an emotional level. We vote on logic. Hard to look at George and say that was logic, but I would have voted for a plant before I would vote for Gore.

The problem for you as you guys always nominate the one that can't win. Bill Clinton couldn't win... he needed Ross Perot to give it to him... and that is the hard truth. Dole was a sacrifice because Bill was just too popular in '96 to even waste a good candidate.

You guys vote on dreams. Good intentions but just not grounded in reality. You know what I mean? One world... no war... no hunger... no pain ect. That's how you vote and that's why you lose.

Overrated said...

I think it is important not to panic here. We always knew that despite Obama's total lack of experience, radical pro-abortion stance, and crazy sounding name he might experience just a little poll volatility on this beautiful and magical carpet ride to the White House. Next week it will be all good again. He is going to soar after the nation sees Barack and Michelle united together with their little ones all ready to take over the White House. Its about time we have someone in the WH that looks different from all the other presidents on the US currency. Ludicrous the talented yet controversial rapper/artist was right...you can't stop him. Conservatives need to quit drinking the hatoraide.

Darren said...

I'd also point out that Pew shows McCain 2008 and Bush 2000 have similar shares of the Democratic and Republican votes. 2004 seems to be a hyper-partisan anomaly.

jaike said...

After the convention, everyone will be happy. All the Hillary supports will finally chill out bc the queen said to.

www.mcfail.org

Darren said...

A thought on the chances for McCain getting a 3rd term for Republicans:

Since WWII, there have been 6 elections where a party attempted to retain control of the White House past two terms.

Truman 1948 (seeking a 5th Dem term)
Nixon 1960
Humphrey 1968
Ford 1976
Bush 1988
Gore 2000

In two of these cases - Truman 1948 and Bush 1988 - the party in power retained control. In both cases they were given little chance of winning 2-3 months out but finished well ahead.

In the other 4 cases the ruling party was thrown out. But it was in all cases by the slimmest of margins. Nixon 1960 and Humphrey 1968 were within half a percent, and Gore 2000 actually won the popular vote. Even Ford 1976 came within 2% in perhaps the worst Republican year since 1932.

A sample size of 6 is not statistically meaningful, but this shows that the electorate has been willing to grant 3rd terms, even when the incumbent is unpopular (Truman, Eisenhower, and Ford with Nixon overshadowing).

The conclusion I would draw is not that the electorate favors incumbent parties, but that they judge the candidates in each election on their own merits and give little weight to which party is the incumbent. If history is any guide, McCain will keep this race close despite perceived fatigue with Bush and Republicans.

Darren said...

sorry, one oversight - Johnson in 1968 was also extremely unpopular but this didn't prevent Humphrey from nearly winning.

NJ_Moderate said...

The tight polls in MN and, to an extent, WI would make Pawlenty and interesting choice for his VP. Having him stay in the tri-state region of MN, IA and WI is worth a point or two and I would give 50-50% odds that one of those stays would go red (or in the case of IA, stay red) with him on the ticket.

If Obama wants to win, he has two choices: Clinton or Warner. Kaine will not help carry the state as he is seen as an extreme lightweight. He won due to Warner's blessing. The presidency is more important than a Senate seat, so Warner should be tapped to lock VA. Conversely, Clinton would help lock up the Rust Belt. Any other pick is a big negative and sets the stage for a 2004 repeat.

By the way, Rome, I am not going to vote for Zimmer in the Fall. I am uncomitted for PResident simply because Obama is very, very green and has shown a surprising lack of knowledge in foreign affairs. I am an American first and a Democrat second so if Obama continues to show bad judgement, I will do what I must.

tomthress said...

"even when the incumbent is unpopular (... Eisenhower...)."

I thought Eisenhower was popular. According to this (http://uspolitics.about.com/od/polls/l/bl_historical_approval.htm) his end-of-term popularity was 59%, which puts him right behind Reagan and Clinton (and Kennedy, but that's a little different situation).

Sedi said...

Nate,
If there is any way you could do some policing -- or get others to do it -- it would really help. There are so many violations of your single not-so-hard-to-follow rule for making comments that it's difficult to read the posts with actual content and something to say. Much of it comes from a few people who post often yet rarely provide much actual analysis, preferring instead to make bold, utterly unsubstantiated statements about future outcomes or what the American people believe. This devolves into insults and generally drags down the level of discourse. Requiring registration and getting rid of anonymous posts helped tremendously, but it seems to be getting bad again (in my view).

I know that I could just stop reading the comments, but there are some real gems in the comments (clarkejeffrey's undecided voter analysis, for example) that I would hate to miss.

This site is unbelievable, and I realize that you are probably ridiculously busy. I'll keep coming back, regardless, but I now am looking at who made the comment first rather than just reading them all, as some consistently have no substance and are obviously meant just to get under people's skin.

Maxwell said...

First, big laff @ virginia conservative. Obama bled Hillary to death in the primary? I would call winning 12 contests in a row and her never coming within a realistic chance of winning again a knockout but whatever you say dude, keep on keepin' on.

Second, anyone claiming the race is going in some arbitrary direction based on 1 day of polls is a fool, Mccain/Obama supporters alike. Hello??? It's AUGUST. No conventions, no VPs, no debates = no contest. Yet.

David said...

These polls show that the VP pick/Dem Convention is key. If Obama has a successful convention and solidifies his position with Dems to 85%+, then his odds of winning become very high.

It would still remain be seen how Independents break, but with the Dems' large registration advantage, it's simply very unlikely that the Indies would break to McCain significantly enough to win him the election. Especially if McCain continues the same negative strategy that he's been employing.

Franchee said...

At the bottom of the survey, it shows that the change is coming from the South +7%. The other regions have barely moved. I think all of this pooling is baloney at the moment and will wait until the election to see what the true numbers are. I don't believe any of these pollster have a clue.

Jose Marichal said...

I haven't heard a plausible reason for why Obama's partisan support is softer than McCain's? What the resistance among Dems? Clinton loyalist backlash? I'd like to see a breakdown of partisan vote by age group.

MATT J. H. said...

I actually made a post yesterday regarding how two weeks ago during the Paris and Britney nonsense Obama looked weaker in the polls and that had all been forgotten.

Todays results will be forgotten by tomorrow evening when the polls revert back to status quo, a fairly close race with a small but significant Obama lead.

The content in the posts are starting to resemble partisan bickering at Huffington Post or Town Hall.com. It really brings down the quality of the site.

obsessed said...

The base will forgive for saying such silly things when he names Pawlenty or Huckabee or Dobson to his ticket.The base will forgive for saying such silly things when he names Pawlenty or Huckabee or Dobson to his ticket.

Dobson???

That would motivate both bases wouldn't it?

I have to say that I'm extremely curious as to whether McCain would far better with a pro-choice or pro-life VP.

MATT J. H. said...

DarianCrow said...
The problem for you as you guys always nominate the one that can't win. Bill Clinton couldn't win... he needed Ross Perot to give it to him... and that is the hard truth. Dole was a sacrifice because Bill was just too popular in '96 to even waste a good candidate.
You guys vote on dreams. Good intentions but just not grounded in reality. You know what I mean? One world... no war... no hunger... no pain ect. That's how you vote and that's why you lose.


Republicans win Presidential elections because of 2 facts:

1. Presidential elections are media wars. You need to control the MSM and get out your narrative. Republicans do this beautifully, democrats (With exception of the Clinton's) do not do this at all. This campaign is the perfect example. McCain owns the media, Obama gets all the coverage, and its all negative. Obama must start playing this game or he will probably lose

2. Republicans don't care about rules or fairness, they will destroy you personally any way possible. They will lie, write vile slanderous books, make deceitful ads, anything to win. Winning is all that matters.
Democrats like fairness. They make rules like only attack policy. and don't attack personally. Case and point, Obama this year. While the republicans are lying their ass off and using deplorable tactics that the media loves because its controversial, the democrats are scared to say a bad word about their opponent for fear that they may cross the line.

Theres a reason we don't remember democratic ads that changed an election only republican ones like Willie Horton and Swift Boat. Democrats have a notion about being fair and honest.

Rachel Mattow tonight was cheering Obama on for his attack ads on McCain in Indiana and she's happy the Obama campaign is showing some fight. Give me a break. Those ads are so damn tame its laughable. Sure they're negative but they're hardly attack ads.

Whether Obama wins this election may come down to Obama showing a real willingness to get dirty and hitting McCain really hard. That kind of attack can't be done while adhearing to high minded politics. If the republicans are willing to slander and lie, the gloves must come off.

obsessed said...

Whether Obama wins this election may come down to Obama showing a real willingness to get dirty and hitting McCain really hard.

And how would you word such a dirty and really hard-hitting ad?

MATT J. H. said...

obsessed said...
Whether Obama wins this election may come down to Obama showing a real willingness to get dirty and hitting McCain really hard.
And how would you word such a dirty and really hard-hitting ad?

Hit him on Grahams "Mental recession" remarks. Something along the lines of

"John McCain believes all your troubles are in your head. His chief economic adviser wrote the Bill allowing speculation on oil futures, his chief economic adviser helped pass the laws that allowed banks greed to take over thats caused this recession. While John McCain sleeps soundly in one of his 9 homes, and crosses the country on the family jet, do you believe he understands you?"

That would be a good start.

pluckon said...

I don't think there's much question that Obama and his campaign have been coasting for the past month, and that the Democratic Party (especially in Congress) as an institution has following its customary pattern of doing everything in its power to piss away every advantage.

Let's all hope they can turn it around.

pluckon said...

By the way, it is painfully obvious that neither Bill Clinton nor his wife want Obama to be elected.

joel said...

What`s with all the doom here. Check the polls in early oct and Then if Obama isn`t leading I would worry.
McCain will have to run the table to win, still a hard thing to do. We will have to see how McCain does in a debate, if he shows his age he will be hurt badly.
He has a hard time getting his facts correct,it`s either age related or he is just not to bright.
Obama has a great ground game that the polls don`t pick up.

p smith said...

Matt JH - I like the idea of penning negative ads that Obama should use.

How about this:

"God said "Thou shalt not commit adultery". But John McCain thinks he knows better than God. When John McCain came back from Vietnam, he cheated on his wife because she wasn't pretty enough or rich enough and he left her for a younger richer less disfigured woman to further his political career. My friends, he's some kind of maverick.

I'm Barack Obama and, unlike John McCain, I don't approve of calling my wife a cunt"

Of course every part of that is true so it doesn't really qualify as a Rovian hatchet job.

pluckon said...

I still think Obama will win the election, but it's shaping up as a much closer race than it ought to be, given the background. In Congress, it looks like Democratic gains are going to be modest, which is also a disappointment.

When you peel away all the layers, it boils down to fire in the gut. The Republicans have it, and the Democrats don't. This is especially true of the institutional Democrats. They have grown far too accustomed to Washington, D.C.

Say what you will about the Republicans (and trust me, there are all kinds of nasty things to say) but their political ardor has not weakened. The Democrats remind me of the stories I'd read about Lane Kirkland, the former head of the AFL-CIO, who was known for having the best wine cellar in Washington, and for presiding over the near complete loss of economic relevance for unions.

As far as Obama's campaign goes, that's more of a mystery to me. Maybe it's just that he's had a bad month, and will rebound. We'll see.

Marlon said...

This is why I can't worry about Obama or any of these polls.

Check the Gallup regional poll below. Its mirrors their previous regional poll, and the previous Research 2000 national poll, which had similar regional results (which resulted into a 13pt national lead for Obama).

Gallup: McCain Continues Strong In the South, But Nowhere Else
by DemFromCT
Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:16:06 AM EST
Well, this is interesting. While the Gallup does its periodic undulation (McCain and Obama are now tied at 44%), the site also breaks down particulars.

For example:

Candidate Support by "Red," "Purple," and "Blue" States

Aug 4-10 (last week) Obama McCain
Red states 40 (41) 49 (48)
battleground/purple states 47 (46) 41 (42)
Blue states 54 (49) 35 (39)

and the fascinating

Candidate Support by Region

Aug 4-10 (last week) Obama McCain
East 51 (46) 38 (41)
Midwest 50 (46) 38 (42)
South 40 (42) 50 (48)
West 50 (47) 40 (42)


Here's the Research 2000 topline number, with breakdowns and electoral counts after.

Research 2000 for media clients. 7/25-27. Likely voters. MoE 3% (No trend lines)

McCain (R) 39
Obama (D) 51
Barr (L) 3
Nader (I) 2

DEMOGRAPHICS:

Men 516 (47%)
Women 584 (53%)

Democrats 407 (37%)
Republicans 276 (25%)
Independents 320 (29%)
Other/Refused 97 (9%)

White 792 (72%)
Black 154 (14%)
Latino 143 (13%)
Other/Ref 11 (1%)

18-29 209 (19%)
30-44 352 (32%)
45-59 308 (28%)
60+ 231 (21%)

Northeast 242 (22%)
South 331 (30%)
Midwest 297 (27%)
West 230 (21%)


Research 2000's electoral college projection as of July 27 is:

Obama 322
McCain 216

Remember R2000 is one of the best pollsters this season (and not that RCP does include this poll in their average).

How is it possible that Obama could lead in the East, midwest and west, and be down 7 in the south, and be tied in the latest Gallup poll.

It's obvious (as Pollster.com has indicated), that the Gallup poll is weighted towards Republican demographics. Because by these numbers, Obama should be up by at least 6%, with equal ratings of regions.

All the current polls are shams, and all the Good ones (proper demographics, etc.), are excluded or forgotten.

MSL

pluckon said...

Marlon, you've provided some much-needed balance and reassurance, but I still need to get Obama come out swinging, and for the institutional (read: congressional) Democrats and Obama to get the hell on the same page.

I'm not sympathetic to the old refrain from people who won't get on the bus, i.e., "I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat." This is bullshit. Pretty soon, if it's not already too late, some Democrats are going to have to decide whether they care about winning some elections.

I, for one, remain to be convinced.

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