The conventional wisdom seems to hold that Hurricane Gustav, expected to make landfall at some point within the next 12-24 hours, could quite literally be a disaster for the Republicans as they attempt to hold their National Convention in St. Paul. I am here to present a devil's advocate case that the opposite may be true.
But firstly, a little bit more context on the storm. I would suggest that you all bookmark Jeff Masters' blog at Weather Underground, where much of this information is taken from.
Within the past 12-24 hours, three things have happened with Gustav. Firstly, it has approached land somewhat faster than anticipated, and is now very likely to make landfall at some point tomorrow (Monday), probably sometime between noon and 2 PM locally. (Although, hurricane-force winds will be felt earlier than that, whereas the the peak storm surge will occur later than that). Secondly, the projected path for Gustav has shifted somewhat westward; a direct hit on New Orleans now appears unlikely. And thirdly, Gustav has become less organized and somewhat less intense, and now appears likely to make landfall as a weak Category 3 or strong Category 2 storm.
These latter two developments are good news for New Orleans; however, the city is far from out of the woods. Because hurricanes rotate counter-clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere, they will tend to produce their largest storm surge to the east of their actual point of landfall when moving from this direction in the Gulf of Mexico. Therefore, while New Orleans is unlikely to experience peak wind speeds, it may still experience a substantial storm surge.
In theory, New Orleans' levees are designed to withstand a direct hit from of a Category 3 storm. Since Gustav may not be quite that strong, and since the hit may be slightly indirect, the levees should theoretically hold. In practice, however, nobody knows how strong the levees will be after Katrina. Moreover, either a slight strengthening of the storm or a slightly eastward turn in its projected landfall position are still well within the realm of possibility, either of which could overwhelm the levees.
Now then -- how could Gustav help the Republicans? Let me run briefly through four or five ways:
1. Allows McCain to Appear Magnanimous. By potentially delaying or canceling his "date" at the GOP convention, McCain appears as though he is giving something up to tend to the Gulf Coast. Sympathetic and neutral-to-sympathetic media outlets may view this as underscoring McCain's "America First" theme.
2. Lowers Expectations Bar. The selection of Sarah Palin as the VP nominee has forced the GOP to shift abruptly from a "Ready to Lead" theme to an "America First" theme. While it is difficult to say whether one of these themes was intrinsically stronger than the other, odds are that a lot of speeches had to be re-engineered, probably rendering them less effective upon delivery. Gustav, however, may give the GOP a built-in "excuse" for more off-the-cuff, hastily-organized speeches.
3. Removes the Bush problem. The further Mr. 30% is from St. Paul, the better off the Republicans will be.
4. Do-Over. Americans have short memories, and a relatively more successful response to Gustav could allow the GOP to argue that it has redeemed itself for the mistake of Katrina.
5. Crisis Mentality May Benefit McCain. By appearing in New Orleans, and perhaps even delivering his acceptance speech from there, McCain will have the opportunity to appear "presidential". Rather than asserting to that he is ready to lead -- an assertion that was undermined the the selection of Palin -- he may hope to give the appearance of actually demonstrating such leadership.
This is not to say that there aren't risks to the Republicans. There is a fine line between responding to tragedy and appearing to exploit it, and any gaffes by McCain, Palin or Bush could quickly alter the narrative. Gustav has yet to pass through the Gulf of Mexico's oil platforms, and any sort of spill could substantially undermine support for their offshore drilling initiatives. Finally, there is an opportunity cost involved. Although the Republicans may appear to be effective in responding to Gustav, they may not be able to emphasize certain other themes which might also have been effective uses of their free national airtime.
What should the Democrats to in response? They face some of the same risks that the Republicans do in terms of appearing to exploit tragedy -- at present, in fact, Mr. Obama appears inclined to avoid creating a political spectacle of any kind on the Gulf Coast. However, it is imperative that they emphasize McCain's marginal track record on hurricane-relief and hurricane-protection measures. A riskier tact, which would probably need to be carried out through carefully-disciplined surrogates, would be to suggest that McCain only cares about such disasters when it is politically opportune for him to do so. Alternatively, Obama could attempt to preempt McCain by championing bipartisan relief and recovery efforts -- whether carried out through legislation or other means like volutneerism -- and asking (or challenging) McCain to join him.
8.31.2008
Gustav Could Be Boon to GOP
by Nate Silver @ 5:34 PM
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Its official today...no Bush or Cheney at the convention. Instead, it will be a much more favorable Laura Bush.
yep. nate's right (for once) - gustav will definitely benefit the GOP ticket.
this week is going to be the final nail in the coffin of the ODUMBO campaign.
I imagine he's 1). Going to exploit it and 2). make massive gains for it.
I'm basing this on my newfound theory that everything I know and think is wrong.
And don't forget that DEMS like Michael Moore are running around cheering on this disaster. That's definitely got to hurt Obambi's public image.
Barack Hussein and the Democrat Party would rather lose a city in order to win an election.
I agree with jordan and bacon. I base this on my theory that the American people prefer someone who looks presidential to someone who actually helps them.
I think the absence of Bush is the biggest political benefit for the Republicans--but I'm not sure they don't also benefit from simply having less TV time to fill. Granted that my mind is made up about the election... but what were they going to talk about for four nights? The brilliant record of the last eight years? All the reasons that many of the same policies that got us into the current mess, particularly on the economy and foreign affairs, would now lift us out of it?
No, the convention was going to be four days of celebrating John McCain and villifying Barack Obama. Maybe this would have been helpful; it seems to have worked somewhat over the summer. But I think it might have worn thin. Instead, McCain gets to present himself as a conscientious, thoughtful and responsible leader who "gets it"--his biggest challenge, arguably, in the aftermath of the houses thing--and the country is spared the perhaps less than appealing spectacle of Bush's obliviousness, Cheney's malice, and Rudy Giuliani's all-purpose loathsomeness.
omega,
Yup, I hate those dems, always exploiting national tragedies for political gain. Like that Rudy Giuliani. Textbook democratic disregard for human life and decency.
The McSame ticket only wins by tearing Obama down any time not spent attacking benefits Obama. The most important thing the Dems need now is Hillary to go after Palin. This is a cat fight the women need to have and the men need to get out of the way.
Gustav is a win for McCain. No more Bush. No more Cheney. No more typical right wing republican convention rhetoric. Unless he actually decides to give his acceptance speech in the disaster zone (a seriously dick move), the whole thing will be used to demonstrate that the republicans have "learned the lessons" of Katrina.
If the Republicans choose to delay the opening of their convention on Monday, I suggest they use the time to study some of the climate research censored by the Bush/Cheney administration. All this posing in front of FEMA backdrops is just that: posing. Of course there are serious issues of human life and personal property that are going to reach a crisis point in a day or two, but until our politicians are ready to read the science that has been developed over the past 50 years, we will be doomed to repeat failures of bureaucracy because of ever-increasing failures of policy.
Oh c'mon, this defies all logic.
You have a candidate whose party is so deeply unpopular that they benefit from not getting four days of national exposure... and yet this candidate is supposed to be a credible threat to win an elction?
How exactly would taht work?
I'd love to see McCain's internal polls. I'm guessing they're pretty horrific.
"While McCain has done nothing but use the impending disaster for cheap political theater, Obama is mobilizing his volunteers and donors for disaster relief."
That is why several MSM sources are airing tape of Dems (BO supporters) talking about how wonderful it is the huricane came during the GOP convention. Add to that Moores statement that this proves there is a God. Leave it to the Dems to laugh at peoples misery.
It's helpful to the GOP whenever they can hide Bush and Cheney. However, OVERALL this week will be a boon to the Democrats.
First, it will underscore the excitement level differences of the two conventions. People will be able to see which party is more energized. Second, the GOP has to share their airtime with the stories about Gustav and Hanna. Third, these things are nothing but grandiose infomercials anyway, and the less time and lower viewership levels for the GOP will minimize any "bounce" they'd have gotten.
It's too cute by half to think that the hurricanes help the GOP. All it does is remind people of the GOP's incompetence in handling Katrina three years ago, and it cuts into the convention coverage. The loss of Bush and Cheney, as positives, will be more than offset by these negatives.
It's fun to be a "devil's advocate" as you've done here, but it underscores how your contrarian case is so weak.
"We can activate an email list of a couple million people who want to give back," ... "I think we can get tons of volunteers to travel down there if it becomes necessary"--Barack Obama.
And the Republicans send McCain/Bush there before the storm hits. Too bad they'll leave before things get bad.
Don is correct. McSame can only win if he can keep Obama supporters at home. Gustav will help McCain with those easily amused, but it won't allow him to win. Only an Obama fumble will do that. I don't rule it out. Palin... just let her keep talking on the fly. Obama, stay on message, and offer to join McSame in raising support for the storm ravaged regions.
"this week is going to be the final nail in the coffin of the ODUMBO campaign."
If only I had a penny for every time someone prophesied this -- I wouldn't quit that day job if I were you.
Obama's more likely than not going to ask his donors to contribute to a Gustav relief fund, much like he did when the Iowa floods hit.
If they're able to get a couple million dollars for relief out of the 2 million donor base then it's a win-win for Obama - Project a good PR image politically, and also be able to help the potential disaster.
In the end I don't think politicizing a hurricane is a good move and I don't think McCain or Obama is going to do so openly.
As usual, the right-wing trolls are over-stating this and the left-wing are understating it.
I think that the GOP's suggestion to make it a fundraiser could be brilliant. I don't think it wins the election for McCain or proves fatal to Obama but it doesn't hurt.
I think it only delays Palin for a few weeks from being disemboweled by the media and by Biden and Hillary.
I think it delays the inevitable, an Obama victory (not even close) in November.
@ filistro --
I think you're right. Horrific polls = Hail Mary = Palin = lost election and lost respect
It occurred to me today while I was enjoying my spaghetti at HomeTown Buffet. The McCain internals must be pretty bleak.
Even if she has a nice rack, she's a looney toon.
hehe.
let them eat cake mccain will benifit from a hurrican.
he was for hurricans before he forgot he was against them.
just keep running the pic of grandpa and bush eating cake while katrina struck.
that will be enough.
wow. so this week was supposed to be about Obama Not Ready in 08 and POW McCain. Now it is about the Republicans are selfless and this will get them lots of points with the voters and erase 8 years of catastrophic governance.
I guess this means next week Bush's approval ratings will also go back to being what 50%? This will be redemption?
I think not having a convention may be a boon but once again this week is about re-branding the campaign and this can only be accomplished by hard orchestrated work. Natural disasters as backdrops for that? Not such a smart idea.
LAT...
Noun verb hurricane.
I'm not sure I'll be able to stand it. You and I may have to start drinking at NOON all this week! :-)
the GOP can not cancel or even postpone their convention. It must be held so that business can be conducted or else they lose their standing for the election.
As far as a BIG convention goes, it is mostly for TV - but they will be gaveled to order with a quorum for essential business.
But they might actually benefit from the lack of both Bush & Cheney NOT speaking IMHO.
By Wed, Palin may or may not speak as VP - if she passes on a big speecht, that might be their benefit too since she comes off as such an unqualified hick IMO.
And the more often that McCain avoids giving speeched on TV the better of his would be since he is so pathetic as a speaker.
So those missed opportunities might actually benefit them, and there will be no comparison to the excitement in Denver or the relative # of viewers between conventions which could also perversely knock down the DEM advantage somewhat...
time will tell
in the meantime, we have the Enquirer digging into the many scurilous stories about Palin and 'troopergate' abuse of power/improper influence, whether her first son was concieved before she got married, and whether the newest child is really her grandchild [which appears to be quite likely by all the evidence so far & the fact that the 'rumors' started in AK well before the 'birth']
that will keep things busy, busy, busy
McCain obviously did no vetting of Palin since she was a last second insertion/selection. IMO this shows his judgment is lacking, as is hers...
The Bristol Palin preganancy pics are still on google image search.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:U-ID8caz-HVv1M:http://govserv.state.ak.us/photos/pict0210.jpg
Good luck!
LOL filistro.
Yep, my boyfirend and my students will begin to think I have become an alkie. ;-)
The thing is that now the whole media is just typing up these talking points about how selfless this all is. The.mind.just.reels.
Where do you get this idea that Hillary is going to fight Sarah Palin?
This is totally absurd.
Hillary did what she had to do to not be labeled as the cause of Obama's defeat. She will not do any more and she'll let him sink now. She wants to be president and will coast to the nomination in 2012.
If you believe that Bill and Hillary Clinton are going to help Obama any longer I have a bridge in Alaska that you would be very interested to buy from me.
They were not even part of the 80,000 acceptance speech ritual. Real true supporters they are.
whats a hurricane?
joe? joe?
(lieberman whispers into Macs ear)
"i am against hurricanes!"
I think it is unlikely that NOT having an RNC convention can help McCain. He is behind and needs media focus to catch up. Bush was not speaking, but Laura ( VERY positive approval ratings ) was speaking. The country is very interested in what Sarah has to say. It may be like the dems insist that she is an idiot and will fumble, but they are behind anyways. Losing by a lot is no different than losing by a little. With such low expectations and Republican professional speech writers, there is a fair chance that she could WOW the blue collar class that can make a difference. As I said, I do not see how not having the convention can help McCain. At least he would have gotten his largest , most enthusiastic crowd.
Nate,
There is another factor that will help the GOP with Gustav. Since that was the day G.W. was supposed to speek, all the protests were scheduled for then. If they go through with it, it creates a very calloused image of left-wingers protesting while a hurricane shreds the coast.
I haven't heard if the protests are being postponed since Monday is already canceled.
LOL, Senile Mac...
Why are you wearing clown shoes with that sleek Armani suit? And look at all those houses stuffed in the pockets!
I'm afraid there's a possibilty you may not have been fully vetted.
@ DarienCrow --
You wait and see. Hillary = Secretary of State + no more campaign debt. A modern-day Faust....
@ FloridaGOP --
I agree. NOT having the campaign might actually help. But then what would all the upstanding Christians who were looking to go and drink milk and pray all week in the Twin Cities do?
Hillary would never be confirmed... and not an ice cubes chance in hell of being a Supreme Court Justice.
She's a proven liar and up to her ears in scandal.
My first reaction was that a national disaster happening during a party convention is a (somewhat high-risk) opportunity for whoever is holding that convention.
if you strike just the right note you come across as presidential, compassionate, humane, non-partisan and so on, just when people are emotional and looking for a strong leader. Get it wrong and you could blow your chances altogether.
I suppose the worst case scenario for McCain is that the storm is just big enough to draw all the media attention away from his convention, but not quite serious enough to leave a lasting impression in the minds of voters.
"Hillary would never be confirmed... and not an ice cubes chance in hell of being a Supreme Court Justice.
She's a proven liar and up to her ears in scandal."
Yeah, only Republicans get high offices with those credentials!
You are all treating this like a zero-sum game, and I don't think it is.
Perhaps having the convention would hurt the GOP. (Bush, Cheney, boring, gaffes, etc.) That doesn't mean that not having it HELPS them... right? It just means it doesn't hurt.
I am open to argument on this... but I ask, why would a bunch of pollsters think that "not hurting" is the same as "helping?"
“It was the failure of the Bush administration’s actions three years ago that are creating all of this conversation, including the discussion of canceling or modifying the convention,” said Dodd on CNN’s Late Edition.
(snip)
“There’s a concern that the Bush administration, one whose policies (McCain) has endorsed, will handle this appropriately,” Dodd said. “If there was a lot of confidence that those in authority today would respond as they should have, then frankly I think the convention would go on. There would be concern about it, there would be talk about it, but they wouldn’t be talking about canceling a convention.”
I agree with filistro this is not zero sum.
now it turns out Hillary is back to being a liar etc. Last week she was the heroine of all the posters here on the right now she is not. Guess that says it all.
Rhys said...
"Yeah, only Republicans get high offices with those credentials!"
What I said is fact...
You came back at me with BS
Nobody really knows what impact the storm wil have on the convention or the campaign, so you people making confident predictions are just airing out your fantasies.
I definitely agree, not PC, but Gustav is helping McCain. No Bush, no Cheney, yes Laura (most popular of them all I'd wager). When Bush does address the crowd via media feed, he can focus on the hurricane instead of endorsing McCain in typical Republican platform items. Expectations much lower, and an interesting media story is already made without tearing apart the Republicans. How they're able to look like the victims is impressive; this hurricane is clearly not physically threatening to them, but McCain says "We'll pray for the best but prepare for the worst." But it's also hurting in the more conventional way (if there was a chance to really make a well-orchestrated political appeal for his campaign, he's losing it), so it's perhaps close to a wash.
On a side note, is there really a reason Cheney has to skip the convention? haha, i know no one will be crying that he's not there, but i feel like this is essentially Bush's job, and Cheney could still make his appearance for our incumbent governing team.
Gustave helps Al Gore more than anybody. If we have a hundred-year storm hit New Orleans every three years, doesn't something have to be up?
The scary thing is we all knew global warming was a real big scary problem in the early 80's, but thanks to Reagan's aw-shucks popularity we were encouraged to worry about the environmental degradation caused by having too many trees instead.
That's true, eve. This is simply a massive Reublican "mea culpa".
In a normal world they could go ahead with their convention while offering help and saying frequent heartfelt prayers for those in peril.
But after the shameful travesty of Katrina they are all required to drop everything, head to the Gulf and wander around looking for little kids to whom they can offer cups of cold water.
It's sheer karma.
Any "service convention" pander will look like another shameless diversion from the corrupt scandal ridden party of gimics, no substance. I'm sure photos of the chimp and the codger eating cake three years ago while New Orleans drowned will make a nice comparison.
I notice to that Blackwater is hiring to beef up their mercenaries to patrol the democratic wards on the taxpayer dime. Nice that the GOP has their on private army.
OMG SenileMac -- now with no Joe I can't get the image of Sarah whispering sweet nothings into McCain's ear.
Well, at least she can tell him about Polar Bears and how they will adapt to land with all that ice melting for some reason that surely isn't global warming.
"What I said is fact..."
And what I said is fact as well.
I agree there is some upside here for the Reps. It gives Palin more time to make up a nice story about her grandson...
There is a video of McPOW ogling Palin while she is speaking. You know, subtle stuff, eyeing her ass while fiddling with his wedding band. Not a complicated guy is he?
Its front page of the Jed Report if you want to see for yourself. Though I imagine its moments from viral....
I'm thinking it will ultimately have a net zero impact (or close to it). The boost that conventions generate come from the several days worth of mostly positive media coverage of rah, rah, rah we're great, the other guys are lame. At a minimum, the hurricane will dilute the coverage of the convention and thus dilute interest. Now the republicans will scale back the party side of things, and will try to do everything they can to make McCain look Presidential and magnanimous without going overboard. If they nail this just right, they'll get a boost out of it, but probably not as much as a week of rah, rah, rah, simply because people have short memories when it comes to disasters that have a limited impact. In short, unless the Rebublican's are able to work some incredible media magic, there's a big opportunity cost.
Overall, the Republicans have a chance to look altruistic, which the country will appreciate; however, I'm sure Democrats won't let Republicans have a monopoly on the altruism. At the end of the day, losing 2 of the 4 days of making a case against Obama is not good for the GOP long term. It's difficult to imagine a lot of Obama supporters witching to McCain because Republicans are volunteering in the Gulf Coast.
¿A new Gop comes in the new Millenium?.
who needs pictures when there is youtube? and voting records for the investigation of what happened in NO? (guess who voted against the investigation?)
Anyway. This I think says it all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHDd83b5byk
If this goes well, it could be very good for Bobby Jindal in 2012 or 2016
This benefits McCain of course.
A Bush speech no helps him.
And very good for Warner of Schweitzer
Warner or Schweitzer in 2012 or 2016 obvious.
I told you guys since this storm was weakened the expectations game will help McCain/Palin (and Jindal). Not having Bush/Cheney there helps, too. No more pics of McCain hugging Bush.
I disagree about hitting McCain on his track record. doing that only makes Dems look like they're trying to take political advantage of the storm. Michael Moore and Donald Fowler's statements will be trotted out to support such a belief.
There's no doubt about it. Gustav is full of risk for everyone concerned. I think it the downsides are bigger for Republicans than Democrats, but let's face it, no one should be cheering for this storm.
WOW -Palin family interviewed by People along with the McCains...
@: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20222685_2,00.html
WTF - some excerpts from the LAFF-a-thon:
------------------------------------
"Q - Mr. Palin, what does Sen. McCain need to know about working with your wife?
TODD PALIN: She's a hard worker and she's not wired normal. (Laughter)
Q - Sen. McCain, of all the candidates you considered, what drew you to her?
JOHN: Obviously, I found her to be very intelligent and very well-versed on the issues. But I think the important thing was that she's a reformer. She's taken on special interests since she ran for the PTA and the city council and mayor. The courage, I guess, is what most impressed me.
Q - Mrs. McCain, how much did you weigh in on this process?
CINDY MCCAIN: I was part of it. I was very enthusiastic [about Palin]."
------------------------------------
[WHAT A RELIEF - CINDY WAS INVOLVED in the vetting, so now I am reassured - NOT]
------------------------------------
"Q - Given her young age and relatively short resume, why is she any more ready to be president than Sen. Barack Obama?
JOHN: I don't think it's a short resume. She first ran for office back in 1992. I don't know what Senator Obama was doing then, but the first time she ran was 1992. That's 16 years. I think that's a pretty, pretty event-filled and record-filled resume.
SARAH: And I haven't had too many years other than that to fill up yet.
JOHN: There you go.
Q - Do you feel ready to be a heartbeat away from the presidency?
SARAH: Absolutely. Yup, yup. Especially with a good team around us."
-------------------------------------
She actually answered, "Absolutely. Yup, yup."
THIS is all so very, very sad & pathetic...
Not so fast, wingnuts!
Obama Mobilizes Volunteers For Hurricane Gustav
Sen. Barack Obama gathered the pool outside after services at St. Luke's Lutheran Church. He told us that his camapaign plans to mobilize its huge e-mail list of supporters to volunteer or send money once the impact of Gustav becomes apparent and authorities know better what kind of help is needed. He said his campaign is coordinating with local authorities.
"We can activate an e-mail list of a couple million people who want to give back," he said. "I think we can get tons of volunteers to travel down there if it becomes necessary."
Your pooler asked him if McCain's visit now is appropriate.
His response: "A big storm like this raises bipartisan concerns and I think for John to want to find out what's going on is fine."
"The thing that I always am concerned about in the middle of a storm is whether we're drawing resources away from folks on the ground because the Secret Service and various security requirements, sometimes it pulls police, fire and other departments away from concentrating on the job."
"I'm assuming that where he went that wasn't an issue. Were going to try to stay clear of the area until things have settled down and then we'll probably try to figure out how we can be as helpful as possible."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Obama_will_mobilize_volunt eers_for_Gustav.html
eponymous,
Better to not reply to someone who calls it the "Democrat Party" and their candidate "Barack Hussein".
If a candidate's name matters so much, then why aren't we talking about John Sidney McCain, III? Sidney sounds pretty feminine and the "III" on the end of his name makes him seem like royalty.
If the name is so important, the Republicans should have nominated Dirk Hardpeck.
"She's taken on special interests since she ran for the PTA and the city council and mayor."
....
"...and now it turns out, she's not just a hot MILF, she's a hot *GILF*! How could Joe compete with *that*?"
How can you guys seriously run Schweitzer in 2012 or 2016 since you seem to think Governor's of small states are neophytes who don't matter?
Montana isn't exactly a big state in terms of population. It is pretty damn tiny.
Praying for Rain? Be Careful What You Wish For....
As Hurricane Gustav barrels toward the Gulf Coast and residents are fleeing in droves, I am reminded of this "humorous" piece put out by Dobson's Focus on the Family organization last week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJY0NuBC7vo&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/
Yes, that was Stuart Shepard of Focus on the Family encouraging people to pray for rain of biblical proportions to ruin the Democrat's big night in Denver. How Christian of him, no? And, how oh-so-ironic that Hurricane Gustav is now threatening to derail their own convention. While the residents of the Gulf coast are in our own hearts and prayers as they weather this storm, there does seem to be a sense of justice that New Orleans and memories of Katrina would come back to haunt this Republican convention. The memories of Katrina should rightly haunt them for the rest of their years.
Are you listening Stuart Shepard? Hurricanes qualify as "rain of biblical proportions", don't they? Perhaps God is trying to tell you something. You would do well to heed these signs and atone for your sins. You can start by focusing on rebuilding New Orleans and the Gulf coast.
KARMA.
Jindal would be a GREAT president.
Personally, I'd love to have someone who performs amateur exorcisms in the White House.
DOUCHE
Nate, I know you're playing devil's advocate here, but c'mon. Since when does the country ignoring one of the major parties' conventions actually HELP that party?
No way, man.
Oh, BTW, the Obama campaign is already gearing up to help the displaced. It's on the front page of his website. Just like when the floods hit Iowa earlier this summer.
By the way, I'm in Mississippi, I love New Orleans, and I hope this whole damn thing misses it whether it helps the GOP or not. That some people here think Democrats are "rooting" for the re-destruction of New Orleans sickens me. And if ANYBODY actually IS rooting for that, Rep or Dem, please come to Laurel, Mississippi so I can kick your teeth down your throat.
RHYS
and her husband says of her:
"TODD PALIN: She's a hard worker and she's not wired normal. (Laughter)"
now that is funny - but too scary too
------------------------------------
speaking of not wired normal, did you see the news conference with Jindal a few minutes ago ?
He was so WIRED tight that he was speed reading his notes at warp speed ! And he would not give up the mic to FEMA - he acted like he was on something, at least too many Red Bulls if not...
But this event is his moment to shine & hope that Palin gets dumped or loses so he can have the national stage. He would have been a better choice for Mccain IMO, but still not qualified enough [but better than Palin].
Jindal also wants to push Nagin off the front pages of course. McCain will probably have second thoughts... except that for John, Sarah looks better in that MILF ? way...
"Nate, I know you're playing devil's advocate here, but c'mon. Since when does the country ignoring one of the major parties' conventions actually HELP that party?"
Maybe when the party is so fucked up that they are better off not getting any attention. LOL
The next Leader of the Free World speaks:
Palin's response to a candidate questionnaire for the Alaska 2006 gubernatorial race: (Note: italics are mine)
Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance."
Good grief.
How is the country going to survive this embarrassment?
"SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance." "
ROFL.
And people wonder why I say that Republicans cater to the ignorant?
Nate, you should update your post with Obama's response to Hurricane Gustav, and how it could benefit him. Especially if he's actually providing boots on the ground and aid to victims.
Also, does anyone have additional information on what Obama and Biden are doing to help?
Andrew Sullivan addresses the baby:
Let me address one question being lobbed at me. Is raising questions about the Palin pregnancy a smear campaign? Here's why it's not. The circumstantial evidence for weirdness around this pregnancy is so great that legitimate questions arise - questions anyone with common sense would ask. The answers to those questions can easily be provided. This is an easier call than the "cross in the dirt" story, which will never be resolved one way or another. The McCain-Palin campaign can resolve this now with medical records, as are mandated for presidential candidates anyway.
The job of a press is to ask questions which have a basis in fact. Read for yourself the full chronology here. See whether you are certain there are no legitimate questions worth asking. I have claimed nothing. I am asking the McCain campaign to resolve a factual question which they must already have covered in the vetting process. After all, this baby was a centerpiece of the public case for Palin made by the Republicans. They made it an issue - and therefore it is legitimate to ask questions about it. That's all.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/a-smear.html
The GOP has been humping 9/11 for seven years to get votes. Is there any doubt that GOP involvement with Gustav is not just more of that same political calculus?
McCain should be careful, lest he wants to make the same mistake Bush Sr. made in '92 with Andrew.
This storm might well redound to the benefit of the GOP for three reasons. #1 - Labor Day night would have piss-poor ratings anyway. Canceling this date on behalf of the victims of the storm will seem to be a magnanimous gesture.
#2 - No Bush or Cheney speech on Monday night
#3 - All the governors of the Gulf States are Republicans so you can be sure that FEMA will perform like a smooth-running machine. The comparison between Republican, Jindal, and Democrat, Blanco will be made to appear very stark.
She is saying "God" was good enough for the Founders, not the pledge.
Quit taking things out of context.
Also, you're post is giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Not cool.
Man, I'm getting nostalgic for the days when the commenters were just fellow politics/stat/analysis geeks who were interested in discussing Poblano's wicked cool Monte Carlo simulation methodology.
Now everyone's bringing their bar fights in here, mouthing off in the most ridiculous ways about nonsense, and generally turning this special site into a garden variety political food fight.
Nate, maybe you can add a password feature for commenters that requires solving a puzzle involving a Poisson distribution or some variant of a CLT?
Having people ignore your convention does not help you.
I'm amazed at all the spinning from right and left.
McCain WANTS attention, Palin NEEDS attention. Gustav interferes with that.
It may all be mute, the latest models show Gustav as an intense, but hardly catastrophic storm. That is unless the levees are totally shoddy. If that's the case then it's a negative for the President and the GOP.
Best scenario for the GOP, Gustav is wimpier than forecast and they get national attention for their convention.
As predicted, Sarah Palin is already a laughing stock.
Bill Maher's Friday Monologue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKULb2JLDJs
Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert ridiculing Palin
http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/32320/1/TDS-Colbert-PalinPick.wmv
John McCreep eyeing up Palin's arse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RN5xbWtNSU
Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert would make fun of any running mate with an R next to their name.
They shouldn't hope too hard for a Democrat Government, because then their shtick ends.
I miss when Craig Kilborn hosted the Daily Show. He just wanted to have fun.
Patrick:
1. There's really not that much to talk about analytically for more than a small amount of time each day.
2. Nate himself has, intentionally or not, invited this. He posts a lot of entries these days that are speculative or much more about the races in general than strictly about the numbers.
"Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert would make fun of any running mate with an R next to their name."
You obviously don't even watch them -- they both make fun of both sides rather mercilessly.
Stewart has for weeks been jabbing at Obama with messiah-complex videos, the other day he had one of the Lion King with Obama's face on the cub, etc.
patrick - ta ta, except at least a few of us are neophytes on statistics ... perhaps a filter that automatically rejects various keywords
National Conventions are, for better or worse, 4 days of free airtime attacking your opponents and selling your idealogy and brand, not to mention making the party's presidential candidate look good. The Democratic National Convention was arguably the greatest in American history.
If the best the Repubublicans can do is look for a photo-op during a natural disaster, instead of selling their brand, then they truely are FUBAR.
why no comment on Obama using his volunteers to help whatever area is hit hard? Won't that help and won't Katrina just remind the pple of how McCain ate cake the day of?
I can already imagine tomorrow morning's headlines...
John McCain, GOP prepare for hurricane
Old man yells at clouds - "Gustav, get off my lawn!"
Rhys did you watch the Daily Show when Craig Kilborn was on?
You know, when it was actually funny?
FWIW Jon Stewart was pretty funny until about 2004 or so. He takes himself too seriously now.
Americans have not forgotten nor forgiven Bush's incompetence and disdain in regards to Katrina. Any reference to that horrible showing of incompetence only reminds them of how badly we need to kick the Republicans out.
Bush's approval rating plummeted after Katrina and has only fallen further. If Americans had such short memories, Bush would have rebounded into the 40s by now, not stuck in the high 20s range.
There's a undercurrent of tension on the Daily Show--when Stewart makes fun of Obama the audience seems nervous (and so does he) and the jokes don't have the same snap, at least until the Messiah Complex stuff. That of course seems more directed at the people who worship him, not Obama himself. The stuff with the convention was really funny. Most of Stewart and Colbert's real anger is directed at the media idiocy that allows political idiocy to go unchecked.
patrick... the popularity of the "comments" section greatly increases Nate's daily hit ocunt, which in turn (I assume) makes it easier for him to sell advertising on his site at a profitable rate.
While it would be noble of Nate to restrict this site to stats purists and math geeks, it would not pay well and I doubt that he could afford to keep it up for long.
So in exchange for the wicked cool statistical analyis from Nate and some of the regulars, you must occasionlly soil your skirts by mingling with the hoi polloi.
That's life. (Those damn commoners, they're just everywhere these days ;-)
When watching Obama's speech, I was thinking : "how could McCain possibibly compete this" ?
Gustav gave him the perfect excuse : he won't.
"FWIW Jon Stewart was pretty funny until about 2004 or so. He takes himself too seriously now."
This means a lot coming from you.
No, really.
(LOL)
Jeeze, I try to have friendly a conversation with rhys and he still acts like a partisan asswipe.
Shucks. This site is not only about the numbers, but the things that move thenumbers. I guess that makes the site more interesting to me.
Both are interesting!
I was with you yesterday on misinterpreting the quote. But you're being a shade forgiving on this new one. That's fairly obvious she didn't mean that.
But let's take it the other way and say she didn't mean it that way. What this is pointing out is that Palin is not a savvy national player -- she isn't prepped and isn't ready to perform in the big dance. Politics and leadership is about communicating so far she has an F. The quote isn't being taken out of context it's being interpreted in a way she didn't mean it to be (or perhaps did). A polished, experience politician and leader can minimize these things.
What it points out is Palin's inexperience.
Welcome back to reality -- you're back on point with criticism that is decent and generates respect. What was up with you yesterday?
"What was up with you yesterday?"
I was seriously nervous Obama would open up a double digit lead and end the race, forcing me to re-live the nightmare of the 1996 election.
Thank God that didn't happen.
I don't think the "crisis mentality" boosts McCain.
Actually I think it works like this: a disaster caused by a human enemy boosts Republicans, a natural disaster boosts Democrats.
Democrats are (rightly) seen as the party more in tune with science. They know more about nature and how it works. You expect a scientist or professor to be a Democrat. They're the ones telling you "the hurricane is going to hit here at this strength" and they're telling you all the details about how it works. They're the ones who are going to protect you and they're the ones who explain how global warming may or may not be in play.
When Gustav was a tropical storm first projected to hit New Orleans, I thought this was a huge benefit to Democrats, since it would overshadow all coverage of the Republican convention. I too have been thinking lately that things might just break even.
What we need is for someone to ask Barack Obama why he isn't in New Orleans where John McCain is. Then Barack Obama should say, "our first priority needs to be getting the heck out of there in an orderly way and the last thing the people down there need is a distraction from some presidential candidate. The president has a role there, absolutely, but I am not president yet and it would be arrogant for me to step in when the people on the ground need to do their jobs as effeciently as possible."
On the communications thing, I'm sure McCain is prepping her as we speak.
Any Governor, unless they're a superstar, isn't going to be flawless when they're thrust onto the national stage. T-Paw would have had the same issue.
Americans have not forgotten nor forgiven Bush's incompetence and disdain in regards to Katrina.
What I find even more distainful is Obama voting NO on a measure that would have prioritized federal spending to ensure the needs of Louisiana residents who lost their homes as a result of Katrina were met before any pork spending would take place (SR#00164, 2007).
Example, you guys saw how boring M. Warner was at the Convention right? Well, he is a good Governor and usually an effective speaker.
He just wasn't ready for a national speech like that.
If McCain gives his speech from Jackson Square or anywhere in the path of destruction the democrats must, must denounce it immediately as horrific opportunism. That's all it will be and it's an unspeakable insult, but might play well to people in places that never have to worry about hurricanes, just as terrorism is the biggest concern of places that nobody would ever hit. The last goddamned thing someone recovering from a hurricane needs is a jackass politician standing on their debris and proclaiming his heroism as the secret service keeps out the rabble. When Bush spoke in Jackson Square, the lights went on an hour before and everyone screamed in delight, thinking that the electricity had come back. The moments the camera turned off, so did the lights.
John McCain doesn't care about Cajun people.
wow, even Sarah Palin's mother-in-law is not sure she will support PALIN !!! that is telling,no ?
'Sarah Palin's mother-in-law uncertain about how she'll vote'
BY NANCY DILLON @ the DAILY NEWS -
WEST COAST BUREAU CHIEF
Updated Sunday, August 31st 2008, 2:27 AM
WASILLA, Alaska -
"Sarah Palin's hometown rallied around her as mayor - now Republicans wonder if the rest of America will warm up to the surprise pick from cold country.
Though her mother-in-law has doubts.
Faye Palin admitted she enjoys hearing Barack Obama speak, and still hasn't decided which way she'll vote."
... and more
"Faye Palin said the entire family was shocked by the news on Friday.
"I'm not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she's a woman and a conservative. Well, she's a better speaker than McCain," Faye Palin said with a laugh."
WTF - great story IMHO
Team Troll Update:
Virky takes point for the day, apparently having no huge arbitrage transactions or something to keep him/it busy. Ahhh, and it's a good cop routine. But of course. We must all soften now, and exploit a hurricane for political gain. We are all soothing people who care - - now, unlike three years ago.
Nate, what's with the move in the numbers today? There's no new state polling and Obama' percentages in key states went down. Weird.
I see Ms. Palin' has still not been made available to the press. Heh. Wonder why not?
Nice interview by Obama and Biden on 60 Minutes. Roberts gave them some tough questions, and they handled them with aplomb and looked very comfortable together. Very presidential. Yup, yup! Absolutely! Hehe.
@ Virginia Conservative:
Well, you'll be reliving the nightmare of 1996 soon, my man. Sorry. It's not going to be close.
Yes, McCain is prepping her but he can't answer for her. She'll have to answer some time. But, really, her record speaks for itself.
No leader is perfect, nobody communicates perfectly (even the great one, Reagan) all the time. But you can't coach inexperience. She's out of her league and it's going to hurt. Big. Though I'm going to buy a McCain/MILF t-shirt, I'm going to get it from a non-campaign outlet. But, seriously, I actually feel sorry for McCain. I have a lot of respect for the senator. Had he had more courage and gone with a moderate (woman or man), I probably would have voted for him. First time voting Republican on the national ticket since the right seized the GOP. But for now, I'll take my civil rights over the MILF.
@ VC
You're right about Wagner, it was embarrassing. But he ain't running to be second-in-line to the most-difficult job in the world. Ship = sinking. Bail out, McCain, while you can. I don't know how but you need to.
Besides, Biden suffers from foot-in-mouth disease and doesn't exactly get an A+ in the communications department despite being around for decades.
Not only Warner. Remember Bill Clinton in 1988? Yeah, you'd rather not.
I am going to make a bold prediction. Sarah Palin will not last more than 3 weeks before being replaced by Mitt Romney. This has to be one of the most egregious blunders in Presidential history.
It's raining here, there's no sports on TV and I'm tired of sudoku, so I've come up with my own bit of brilliant quantitative analysis.
If you take the posters in here and give their comments a neutral starting relevancy rating of 5... with 10 being supremely on point and 1 being so irrelevant as to be a waste of cosmic resources...
I have discovered that the name used to refer to each candidate is numerically significant. Every time a post uses the candidate's name with correct spelling (McCain, Obama, Biden, Palin,) you can add one point on the relevancy scale. Conversely, for every alphabet letter that the spelling is corrupted, you can deduct one point.
Thus "McPain" drops to a 4 on the relevancy scale. "Odumbo" is a minus quantity.
It works out to be pretty much infallible.
Now...where can I publish this theory?
DUNNO
In Nate's model the national polls are factored into the simulations for establishing the trends, which then has an effect upon the state polling #'s as well, even after he adjusts for 'house effects' & convention bounces.
FWIW
BADO
well Harriet Miers' nomination lasted all of 3 weeks...
Conservatives objected to Harriet Miers because she wasn't conservative enough. That clearly isn't a problem with Palin.
Mccain should have went with Jindal. The guy has some wacked out fringe beliefs (exorcism) but he seems competent. I actually trust this kid more than the reckless Mccain. I get the impression that he will perform much better than expected and raise his national profile (a la Giuliani and 9.11).
FixedNoise PLEASE KEEP GERALDO AND HIS SHOWBOATING A!! OUT OF THE HURRICANE ZONE.
Category 2, while still a very significant storm, will cause no where near the damage that Katrina did. Thank God.
"I am going to make a bold prediction. Sarah Palin will not last more than 3 weeks before being replaced by Mitt Romney. This has to be one of the most egregious blunders in Presidential history."
I'm sorry, but you are clearly mistaken. VirginiaConservative and petekent have been telling us over and over that it's a brilliant move by McCain.
And so it must be.
Right, DCM, I figured that was it, but as usual Nate is overcompensating. Oh, well.
Sorry, filistro, but I like my nicknames. I can take the Relevancy Scale Hit.
Wow, Jindal is just scary creepy. Like McClown. They should have partnered up. And then there's the exorcism thing. HAHAHA.
The last time a non-incumbent Democrat blewout a Republican opponent was Roosevelt in 1932. This country sits slightly right of center all things being equal and has since Eisenhower. On top o that this country is very polarized (Red and Blue). That sets up for a situation where no matter what they do the Dems are unlikely to break out way ahead. However, the landscape, campaign, and candidates scream this time for an Obama win. It would be baffling for it to not happen. In the end Obama should end up winning well over 300 delegates in the elctoral college, winning Lean McCain states like Florida, Ohio, and Nevada because it's such an obvious choice. Obama looks like the next Kennedy or Reagan out there and McCain was simply the least of all evils of the crop the GOP came up with this time. His VP choice is completely ridiculous and none of his core constituency has any real passion for him. Far-right wing social conservatives, folks racially prejudice, war-mongerers, and women who are excited to vote for a ticket without any woman on it, regardless of qualfication, do not make up the majority. This election won't be close. The only reason it feels that way is because it's hard for a Dem to get 50+%. The independents and undecided will split about evenly. Popular vote 51% Obama, 47% McCain, 1% Barr, 1% Nader. Hurricane Gustav might make McCain look magnanimous, but Obama's speech will have more staying power for those in the middle.
Watch for Jindal if Obama wins. That's the race in 2012.
The exorcism thing is a red herring. They tried to sink him with it in every race he ever entered and it never had an effect.
filestro - we all love you!
trying to listen to FAUX but it is just too cringe inducing...
the 'fair & balamced' reporter was marveling about how McCain & Palin were at a HUGE rally in MO with 17,000
now I guess that might be HUGE by McCain standards, but seriously that is relative at best...
anyway, then they showed the Beauty Queen trying to speak & she was squealing out tripe about "how we all are gonna pull through this thing together" sounding like a ditsy blonde that gives all women a bad name.
Come to think of it, I was waiting for her to add that she would use her position as Miss Alaska [er, VP] to promote "World Peace" or is it world piece...
I had to change channels, so I will watch the Weather Channel since FAUX is just so very very very wrong...
Virginia Conservative said...
Watch for Jindal if Obama wins. That's the race in 2012.
I would agree with that. He looks solid. I wonder who would win in a primary with a more seasoned Romney and Jindal in 2012.
This election will come down to the debates. Not the VP debate, McCain vs. Obama. Obama will need to demonstrate a true command of the issues to win. Not a laundry list of promises, like his convention speech. Nor can he win by a Yes We Can, Change mantra that worked so well in the primary. If McCain an demonstrates a far superior command of the issues, he will have my vote and win the election. Disclaimer, my vote is not the deciding factor lol.
I have nothing against Sarah Palin. She is not the right person at the right time. What Im hearing from folks in Alaska is that it is like the twilight zone up there. Nobody can believe she was chosen on a flyer like this- even her husbands mother is in disbelief. Some shoes are going to drop and Im not talking about the ridiculous baby story non-sense.
Bobby Jindal's eyes are too close together.
Unlike Joe Biden, whose "I's" are too close together.
@ VC --
You're slipping again, my man. This is Jindal's first elected office. He was appointed to all others. Hard to 'sink' a red man in a red state with a red legislature.
What is a miracle is that Louisiana elects any democrats at all outside of New Orleans, and maybe not even after this.
Please please please, GOP, nominate Jindal in 2012. Man, I'd love to hear Howard Stern, Jay Leno, David Letterman, Bill Maher, and every single standup comedian in existence do their impersonation of him every night for half a year. It would redefine landslide.
VC-
If either of the rumors are true:
1) Palin was pregnant when she got married, or
2) Palin's 5th kid is not hers, but her daughter's.
Will either of these, if true, piss off the right wing nutballs enough to not vote, or not vote for her?
Liberals don't care much about this crap, so you need to help understand lying right wing nutballs....
None of those are true, so doesn't matter. Only frothing lefty blogs care.
You guys fear her, and with good reaosn.
Bipartisan,
McCain won't win the debates. Obama might come across as elitist and snobbish to some, but he certainly has a command of the issues, whereas McCain says he knows very little about the economy. I don't like Romney (McCain doesn't either), but he seems like a better choice to fill out a ticket, where the top knows nothing about the most important issue of the day or how about Carly Fiorina. McCain is a whack job. The GOP has a lot better to offer, McCain is where he is today because of Cindy's money and his 5 1/2 years in the Hanoi Hilton that he exploits incessantly. He's not as qualified as many other alternatives the GOP has.
Brad --
Probably not. Right-wing nutballs are the masters of "do as I say, not as I do" -- just ask a televangelist.
I'm sure that after spending weeks denying this, the right-wingers here will, if the grandma thing turns out to be true, tell us all about how this is a 'great win' for McCain and how it proves the wisdom of the Palin pick, blah blah.
I could practically write the shit right now. LOL
"You guys fear her, and with good reaosn."
Why -- did Cheney teach her how to shoot?!
Virginia Conservative said...
"Watch for Jindal if Obama wins. That's the race in 2012.
The exorcism thing is a red herring. They tried to sink him with it in every race he ever entered and it never had an effect."
Every race he has ever entered ?
Do you know how many races that comprises ? only 3 over 4 year period, including a losing run for Governor in '03 & a winning congressional district in '04 when he assumed Vitter's GOP district...
come on
Brad- I am hearing that the pregnancy stuff is garbage. It has been a rumor in AK for a while and none of her enemies (she has a lot) have come up with anything. I am socially liberally and I really wouldnt care even if it was true. Although, It would be poetic justice if she was forced to produce a birth certificate or Todd was pressured to take a paternity test a la Barack and John Edwards.
You guys are just walking into another Rathergate if you touch this and I'll laugh if you do.
You know what we need? Another Montana poll.
There's something I never thought I'd say.
Eric,
I think it's actually a bit difficult to say that the country is generally right of center. It all depends on the scale: compared to the UK, we're pretty far to the right on average, and compared to continental Europe we're even farther to the right. But compared to the major party platforms? I don't know...it depends on what issue you look at.
For abortion, most Americans are fairly far to the left: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/22/opinion/polls/main537570.shtml
For gay marriage, more than 50% of Americans are pretty far to the right: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/22/opinion/polls/main537570.shtml
(And yes, I know, dated polls. But I'm assuming opinions on these sorts of issues don't change so quickly as to make a big difference over 4-5 years)
So the issue is actually fairly complex when you get into it.
Jindal will be a good canidate for 2012 if Obama wins.
The last governors of LA are horrible.
VC-
We won't walk into Rathergate, the National Enquirer (e.g. John Edwards) will be all over these stories.
filistro--love your new model. maybe we can get it published in Political Blogging Studies (APSA might publish it ;-) )
Someone posted on an earlier thread how us Obama supporters are angry because Obama is not getting coverage. You know I actually think that is pretty good. After a week of intense coverage, what remains is the image of the convention and the last night which is pretty good. But the problem is that intense focus on Palin will not remain soft focused for long. T
She will have to give at least a couple of hour long interviews in the sunday shows soon. So then we will know how she performs.
The other interesting issue is that the focus in now on her and no McCain. If the cmapaign becomes a referendum on Palin, McCain is going to get pretty hot under the collar and I can see spakrs flying. And not the good kind.
No, Jindal won his election for U.S. Rep., as well as the governor's race. I assume Virky hates Louisiana's system, what with those pesky results below 50% and all.
Virky is also correct (I know, I'm speechless) that the storry of Bobby Jindal, Demon Slayer, came out in a minor way in 2003 and 2007 (his gubernatorial campaigns). It's still scary.
VC,
You obvioulsy have no medical knowledge. The entire story is shady or proves she asbolutely dumb.
The baby story is garbage. Her opponents have already tried that, and they can't find anything at all.
It depends that you consider who is the left and who is the right.
Can you see for example Sarkozy or Berlusconi more right than McCain?.
Can you see Gordon Brown more left than Obama?.
As for the preganancy story - don't give up yet, the mono story on the kid is nonsensical and the pics puled from the AK websites are still available on google image search and the wayback machine.
Uh - oh. VC is in panic mode again, he's turned his responses over to his kid. Relax, guy, this country survived George W., it'll survive Obama, too. Just turn to the left and cough and it'll be over in eight years.
Jinnantonix-
You know this is as stupid as Obama's birth certificate, or the secret Muslim smear. It is about on that level of retardedness.
I agree, it is stupid. Really, the point is that she isn't ready. I don't give a rat's ass about her baby other than I hope he has a happy, carefree life.
What was the last left goverment in the US?.
Please, don´t say Clinton.
"What was the last left goverment in the US?."
Lyndon Johnson.
eponymous,
If this election doesn't break hard toward Obama and we're looking at a close electoral map, it'll come down to Ohio, Colorado, and Virginia (and possibly a New Hampshire/Nevada combo). Four ways for Obama to win. If he wins any of the first three or a NH/Nev combo he wins, if not McCain wins. Sounds good for Obama, but he'd have to win a "Red" state from last time to do it. Not a sure thing. As for leaning right of center, we have a lot of states where Evangelicals care a lot about social issues, that combined with the folks who think Libs raise taxes and don't care about security and you have a right of center populace. If the reference point is Europe fine.
eponymous,
If this election doesn't break hard toward Obama and we're looking at a close electoral map, it'll come down to Ohio, Colorado, and Virginia (and possibly a New Hampshire/Nevada combo). Four ways for Obama to win. If he wins any of the first three or a NH/Nev combo he wins, if not McCain wins. Sounds good for Obama, but he'd have to win a "Red" state from last time to do it. Not a sure thing. As for leaning right of center, we have a lot of states where Evangelicals care a lot about social issues, that combined with the folks who think Libs raise taxes and don't care about security and you have a right of center populace. If the reference point is Europe fine.
Boon? I don't think so. Hurricane Katrina is the first thing everybody thought about when Gustav started heading towards Louisiana. It was the utter failure and final takedown of the Bushey/Cheney/McPhoney crime drama. Don't underestimate the collective memory of Americans, let alone those who continue to suffer as a result of the criminal dynasty.
lat,
Not only will she have to prove her mettle, and soon, but most media coverage I've seen seems like the kind of coverage McCain wants to avoid. The story usually is "McCain picks Palin to appeal to Clinton supporters" which has a strong undertone of "Is McCain pandering? We'll find out next!"
I think he stole the spotlight quite effectively, but he moved the coverage from basically uniformly positive on Obama (they had to stop Pat Buchanan from raving about his speech) to kind of skeptical on McCain. Unfortunately there's going to be so much noise in the numbers with Gustav and the Republican convention that it will be difficult to tell if that's helped his numbers.
Fun fact: If Obama wins with a Democrat Congress, the U.S. will have the most left-leaning Government in North America (Canada, USA, and Mexico).
This country suvived GW Bush and survive Obama not because the left or right. Survived because this country respect their Constitution.
sorry to all of those predicting the Palin pick as the hit that would save McCain with undecideds.
Lutz--a republican!--did a focus group. here are the goods.
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/
VA COns, not Jimmy Carter?.
So if Gustav takes out a few dozen offshore drilling platforms, what does that do to the "drill here, drill now" crowd?
Jimmy Carter wasn't much of a liberal.
I was with you right up to number 5. That would appear to be exploiting the situation, just as the reported plans to make a major campaign trip to an evacuation area - rather than attending to his own business of getting nominated - will look that way. He says he wants to suspend campaigning because of Gustav, then does the opposite.
The decision to downgrade the convention also pegged my Irony Meter. They think it would look bad to have a big party while Americans are struggling with Gustav, but they didn't think it would look bad to have a big party while Americans are sacrificing and dying in an actual WAR?
PS -
The projected track is very close to the worst possible track for New Orleans. I heard a talk by the NHC director some years ago where he explained that a diagonal run to the NW is much worse than the NNE track of Katrina because it jams a storm surge into the arc of the Mississippi delta where it gets pushed up into the lake and the canals and then down into the city.
Yes Dario,
Jimmy Carter is why this country is stuck right of center. Too liberal. A President should be centrist. It's why Obama will win this time, Bush is too far to the right. The country rejects that.
@ Dario --
No, Carter was quite moderate, as was Clinton.
Lyndon Johnson = why we had the conservative revolution in the first place. I'm finishing my dissertation on it right now. VC is absolutely right.
Well, let's see how smart the Republicans are. If they quickly do the vote for McCain and Palin by acclamation Monday morning, then the next 4 days can just be a "telethon" for Gustav relief, with the delegates manning the phones.
What kind of bounce would that give?
VA Cons, the problem isn´t the left or the right, it´s depends how the countries respect their constitutions.
Mexico haven´t left goverments for the last 25 years and this country is very poor. It´s the corruption, not the ideology.
Sweden is more left than Mexico, and it´s a better country for live.
I've heard someone also say Nixon was the last liberal President which, as ridiculous as that sounds on its face, is partly true.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/
check out Sullivan's site jinnantonix -- the story has legs
Andrew has some reasonable questions. He also has links to credible sources. Palin may be the mama and may be the grandmama. It will be easy for her to settle the issue.
This baby was a big part of the roll out of what a great candidate Palin is and thus the GOP has made the baby an issue in this election.
But Andrew writes it better than I do.
Sweden is Socialist Dario, too far left! Our cities in the US are liberal and the rest is conservative, hence we're slightly right of center if you look at all issues.
@ VC
Watch out, everybody, he's back on point. Another one out of the ball pack. Nixon was more liberal than people remember.
VC-
We can't get left of Canada, all thewir parties are left of ours.
As for Mexico, call me when they get a government. They are all crazy drug dealers and corrupt officials at the moment. That is why Bush got along with them so well.
Andrew Sullivan is a joke. He was good until around 2005 then lost his mind. Watching him develop his massive man crush on Obama is almost embarrassing.
I live here since 1992 and my country isn´t very good for live not for the left and right (we have military goverments for many years). It isn´t very well because the corruption and because the politicans not respect the Constitution.
It is the difference between Latin America and USA-Canada.
VC,
So you are saying she's dumb. That is the only way to explain being G5P4, having PROM, give a 30 minute speech after ROM, go to the airport, travel 11 hrs including a transfer in Seattle while carrying a high risk delivery. Don't go to the big hospital, but a more remote smaller one.
epy--yes. Interesting that not just some respected conservatives are penning critical articles about Palin but Michael Savage is out destroying her and O'Reilly apparently is at it too. I don't respect these last two but it is indicative that if the conservatives start to eat their own it won't be pretty.
dario--I compltely agree. What makes this country great is it's constitution. Which is one reason some of the moves by the Bush administration (signing statements, the theory of the unitary executive, habeas corpus) have been so disturbing to me. Como si estuvieramos de regreso en America del Sur no?
But Sweden now have a right goverment.
But the swedish constitution is socialist.
Bill O is a massive sexist, really, and I say that in all seriousness.
LAT
thanks for the link on the Palin focus group.
VERY interesting indeed !
I shall quote from it for those too lazy to link:
"Another week, another Frank Luntz/AARP focus group of undecided voters--this one in Minneapolis and with some bad news for John McCain: they don't like the choice of Sarah Palin for vice president.
Only one person said Palin made him more likely to vote for McCain; about half the 25-member group raised their hands when asked if Palin made them less likely to vote for McCain.
They had a negative impression of Palin by a 2-1 margin...a fact that was reinforced when they were given hand-dials and asked to react to Palin's speech at her first appearance with McCain on Friday---the dials remained totally neutral as Palin went through her heart-warming(?) biography, and only blipped upwards when she said she opposed the Bridge to Nowhere--which wasn't quite the truth, as we now know."
plus, the final summary...
"Afterwards Luntz, good Republican that he is, made the case that Palin could win all these people back with a good convention speech, but that seemed far-fetched to me. They really saw this pick as a gimmick--and one that reflected badly on John McCain's judgment."
WOW !!! @: http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/
lat, this is the key.
And i don´t think Bush Administration not respect the constitution.
Yup, makes perfect sense. She left it all in God's hands. She is a true nutball.
Her water did NOT break in Texas, no way. Only explanation is she was NOT preganant. She now has the head of all the repub govs out there lying to. When this comes out she will have everyone hating her. If she sleeps with McCAin she might be able to stay on the ticket though....
Seen the video of him checking out her bum on youtube? I noticed it real time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RN5xbWtNSU
WOWHOOO! The serial adulterer
McCain checks out Palin DURING HER ACCEPTANCE!!!! Classy, Cindy must be proud.
I don´t see Nixon has a liberal president.
I think he was a moderate republican like Einsenhower.
EVE
appreciate the link on Andrew Sullivan's article re: baby mommas....
man, if a right pundit calls for following the 'story', you are correct. It has legs for days...
This could really hurt their family values & trustworthiness [lol] with the voters IMHO.
Regardless, Palin is the one who brought this story into the public for her own advantages...
dario--there has been a lot of out-of-the-regular- interpretation of the constitution going on these last 8 years. You get serious people from the Justice Dept actually testifying about this in Congress. I am not saying it is irrevocably broken but one cannot say that Cheney calling himself the 4th branch of govt is within the normal bounds of constitutional interpretation.
Yes, lat i understand.
Check this out:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/31/145838/319/386/581332
38,000,000 viewers of the DNC (an underestimate, because that number only represents the number of viewing mechanisms, not the actual people). What I really like, is that there were 19,000 people in Dublin, Ohio for the Obama/Biden speech, more than what was anticipated for the RNC Convention. There's just no comparison. The DNC got the last word with Pat Buchannan's blessing. The Rethugs never did make a statement of opposition to reverberate throughout America regarding the powerful speech of Barack Obama.
McFake got 24 hours of coverage, then here came Gustav - the great reminder of the Hurricane Katrina failure.
Like CNN just said, this weekend is all about Hurricane Gustav, and going into the following week, also.
By pushing this story you guys are going to make her look very sympathetic.
If you think she is such a joke why are you pushing a smear story?
From an email Sullivan received regarding why it is a valid question IF Palin lied regarding the baby:
"Even if one could excuse this behavior as a misguided effort to protect her family, what happened next is beyond the pale. Knowing full well the truth, Palin allowed the false version of this story to be used as part of a PR campaign to dupe voters into viewing her in a completely false light."
I think the choice of Palin is a joke and I think she does as well, but the whole thing about the baby possibly not being hers confuses me. Wouldn' she have been pregnant for 9 months as governor? Wouldn't someone be able to tell whether she was pregnant or not? If her water broke in Texas, wasn't she obviously pregnant then?
VC -- The story may be unfounded.
If so, it will be easy for Palin to prove it.
VC- As an Obama supporter, I am kind of embarrased that liberals are pushing this. This is the same stuff that they do to Barack and even John Edwards with his "love-child"(although I never liked the guy). Its tabloid politics.
I actually am beginning to have sympathy for the Palins. Not for Mccain though who went around viciously attacking Chelsea Clintons for her looks when she was a teenager. Or Cindy who (unlike the graceful Laura Bush) gratuitously jumped all over Michelle Obama.
That is why I have no problem calling Cindy Mccain a drug addict lying thief.
Over at the Corner, they're pretty bummed about the Luntz focus group. They just can't believe everybody isn't totally thrilled about Wonder Woman the Sexy Bear Killer.... but reality seems to be gradually setting in.
I think Republicans are beginning to have that awful, queasy feeling that maybe they've been caught looking really silly.
VC,
First it bothers the shit out of you b/c you know it is shady and very likely true. So, when the national inquirer or the media reports it she is either a liar and hypocrite like many of the religious right or shows she has incredibly bad judgement. Second, the Dems have to do nothing, the media will do it like the National Inquirer. Oh wait, conservatives are even picking up on this shady scenario.
I disagree with the part about McCain delivering his speech from LA. that was just look stupid and opportunistic and I'm sure he would see it that way as well. Why would McCain be there? He has no ties to the area? He's not the incumbent President? Is he doing to do manual labor? Simply put he has no reason to be there except to grandstand.
It would be soemthing else if Jindal was his VP nominee and gave his speech from the statehouse. Damn, that would have been a real winner over the "What does a VP do?" Hockey Mom.
Jinnantonix.
I actually respect Palin for caring for the new baby - BUT
it appears that it more than likely was her daughter's which would still be admirable [except that she has brought this out in public as her own & could ruin her daughter]
however, IF she really was pregnant when giving that speak in TX then she was more than incompetent to fly all that way for a stoopid speech in her 'alleged' 7th month of a high risk pregnancy... and then the 'water break' story makes no sense..
UNLESS, the 3rd scenario postulated is true [which would be dreadful]. Right after Palin supposedly gave birth in the small remote hospital back in AK, the local blogs were full of speculation that the real reason she flew at such a late date as a 44 y/o w/high risk downs syndrome baby was 'hoping' for a miscarriage to occur from the flights. I am not making this up, it was & still is on the AK local blogs as posted by local AK doctors who sreamed out publicly that her late term air travel was either sheer stupidity, medical malpractice OR most likely intentionally putting the pregnancy at risk especially once the water broke & infections would start during that 12 hour period...
The 3rd scenario would be the worst by far... [I sure hope it is not the truth]
But if any of them turn out to be true, then McCain will probably be forced to dump her & get a new VP. With the focus group results showing such a bad impact for his pick [other than 'shock' value], then he at least accomplished the mission of stepping all over the DEM bounce... FWIW
SEAN has posted a new thread...
I'm actually not so sure keeping Bush away from the convention is a good thing. Remember, if he's Mr. "30%," that means 30% of the surveyed actually approve of him, and I'll go out on a limb and venture a guess that they are probably mostly Republican. That's a percentage McCain cannot afford to alienate, and whose interest h absolutely can't afford to have flag to the point where they just don't care enough to bother voting.
This Convention is "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for McCain. Have Bush over, lose the independents; keep Bush out, lose part of his supporters.
You know, anytime anyone prefaces a post with "I'm a ________ supporter," the Troll Radar goes off. Show, don't tell.
Too bad about Luntz's focus group. I know that he always takes it hard when the results don't go his way.
No comment on Ms. Palin's child. She's a lightweight, extremist nut and her selection is a joke of the lowest order.
Anyone have opinions of what Obama's camapign should do to counter McCain using this as a political tool to look capable and caring? I know he's going to get donors to give and they'll probably come close to matching the money McCain and the GOP generates. Maybe make an appearance down there to check it out. If McCain gets a huge bump from this than our country is truly pathetic.
@bado
I am going to make a bold prediction. Sarah Palin will not last more than 3 weeks before being replaced by Mitt Romney. This has to be one of the most egregious blunders in Presidential history.
I think you may be right. At first I thought Palin was like Quayle. But this pregnancy thing may make her another Thomas Eagleton.
The pregnancy question seems really trashy, I know. But it's relevant because either way it turns out, it reveals something very bad about Palin's character. Either (a) the baby isn't hers, which means she's lying about a major piece of her biography, or (b) she was unbelieveably reckless in boarding a plane and flying back to Alaska after her water supposedly broke with a premature, special-needs, high-risk baby.
So either she's the master of an elaborate public deception, or she has such incredibly bad judgement that she was willing to seriously endanger her own life and her baby's life just to give birth in Alaska.
"This Convention is "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for McCain. Have Bush over, lose the independents; keep Bush out, lose part of his supporters."
Palin has reinforced his base. Bush not speaking is a net plus for McCain - "I endorse McCain" would have been in an attack ad before you can say "that's more of the same"
It's humorous that the less the public sees of the Republicans, the better they look, but nobody will be watching and hearing their political message, either. Nor will they be watching Palin's acceptance speech.
On the downside, we have all of these Republicans in town looking down their noses at Minneapolis and acting smug and...well, elitist. And drunk.
It would be interesting to put them on a YouTube video ranting about how stupid everyone here is when they are three sheets to the wind.
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