I think I've written extensively about just about all of the leading Democratic Vice Presidential contenders at some point, except Joe Biden, who at this point seems to be the favorite for the position. I like Joe Biden reasonably well personally; if I were trying to choose from among the VP candidates to support in a Democratic primary, he would be fairly high on the list. But I think the Democrats may be overstating his electoral appeal.
Rasmussen has conducted polling on Joe Biden at various times; I have included a recent poll where they took voters' temperatures on some of the potential VP contenders, as well as a poll toward the end of Biden's primary campaign, and then a baseline reading from 2006. In each case, Biden's favorables/unfavorables were pretty close to even:VF = Very Favorable
These are not terrific ratings, and they get a little bit worse when you look at the depth of the sentiments, as Biden's strong unfavorables exceed his strong favorables by 5-7 points. Basically, I think he is identified enough with the (unpopular) institution of the Congress that he will be viewed by a lot of people as a partisan, but doesn't compensate for that by generating enthusiastic responses from the base, the way some other candidates might. Biden is fairly well-known -- by far the best know candidate of the Bayh/Biden/Kaine/Sebelius group -- so perceptions of him are liable to be fairly entrenched, and may not be enhanced by the fluffy sort of treatment that the VP candidate usually tends to get from the press.
SF = Somewhat Favorable
SU = Somewhat Unfavorable
VU = Very Unfavorable
Date VF + SF = Favorable SU + VU = Unfavorable
7/27/08 12 + 23 = 35 17 + 17 = 34
12/9/07 10 + 28 = 38 21 + 16 = 37
11/11/06 10 + 23 = 33 21 + 15 = 36
There are some positives, though. Biden's numbers are quite strong among seniors, a group with whom Obama is underperforming, and fairly strong among moderates. He would probably lock up Pennsylvania for Obama -- both because he is well-known in the Philly burbs and because Pennsylvania has an older electorate -- and might play well somewhere like Florida. (I don't think he'd perform as strongly in states like Colorado and Wisconsin, which are a bit younger and tend not to like the Washington establishment).
I understand that there is more to picking a VP than favorable/unfavorable ratings -- elections aren't won by out-nicing the other ticket. There is no doubt that Biden would perform well on the talk show circuit, and that he'd assuage the concerns of a certain number of older, foreign-policy-focused voters. That might be enough to make him a worthy choice. But I don't think he'd quite as appealing to the electorate as the conventional wisdom seems to hold.
Tuesday, August 19, 2008
Do Voters Like Joe Biden?
-- Nate Silver at 7:39 AM
Labels: vice president
148 comments
Apparently, ladies love Biden (LLCoolBi is his myspace name). I wish I knew his secret!
Obama essentially has three choices -
1) Choose Hillary
2) Choose a solid, non-controversial, "experienced" older white senator or governor or
3) Choose an "exciting" candidate like Sebelius, or someone who's otherwise slightly out of the mainstream mold.
Option "1)" is complex. Hillary seems to give a poll bounce. I have no idea whether he will use that option.
Between "2)" and "3)", the choice is clearly "2)". My emotional preference would be "3)" but that's not the way to go. Essentially, virtually all people who would vote for Obama/Sebelius will vote for Obama/Any acceptable candidate.
(Remember that "concern trolls" will screech that whomever Obama chooses is the reason they now won't support him, that they were going to support him before this terrible choice, and so on, but that in reality there are probably only about 10,000 (very busy) concern trolls in the country, and they always lie. So disregard the "I was going to vote for Obama if he chose Sebelius but he sold out and chose Biden so I'll now directly or indirectly support McCain" comments, should that happen, as the BS that they are.)
Meanwhile, balancing the historical breakthrough of Obama's candidacy with a mainstream figure for VP could indeed attract some votes.
I'll be voting for Obama no matter what. The one thing he could do to make my support grudging would be to choose a Republican. I'll boldly predict that that doesn't happen.
harold, what if Obama chose Lieberman?!
Thanks, Nate. This confirms my view of Biden: he's the kind of candidate that Beltway insiders love, but doesn't go over very well with the public (as his presidential campaign's failure to catch fire indicates).
Would he be a disaster as VP or a candidate? No.
But I do think he blunts some of Obama's advantages. He cuts into the "change" meme. His status as Senator from MBNA will make it that much harder for Obama to stress economic populist issues (not that there seems to be much sign of his doing that anyway).
Perhaps most importantly, Biden's longwindedness and incredibly self-importance might reinforce a negative image of Obama that the McCain campaign has been trying to cultivate.
And I fear that his nomination would also indicate that the Democratic Party's conventional wisdom crowd is calling the shots. And those folks do not have a good record in presidential elections.
I disagree with harold's entire "concern troll" paragraph.
I've generally supported Obama this entire season because I vote for people, not parties, and she seems to be the most genuine, trustworthy, and honorable of the candidates, and probably the only Democrat that I would trust with also having a strong majority in Congress (Hillary, never in a million years).
Yes, the VP choice matters this time around. It quite literally says more about the candidate than a thousand words could.
Another foreign policy "expert" that voted for the war. Who needs that? Biden is an empty suit who will almost certainly under-perform in the debates, as will almost any senator. It's bred into them to be polite. Senators are always aware that there'll be another bill, another debate, and that next time they might need the senator on the other side to stand with them.
The best pick is almost certainly a governor. No record on Iraq, executive experience, and a greater likelihood of carrying a state into the win column than a senator can bring.
You know the longer we wait for an announcement, the more tension builds and the more Obama needs to nominate someone with a wow factor.
I still think it's going to be Bayh but if we get to Thursday without an announcement, I would put some serious money down on Hillary. Even if it secures just half of the 20% of Dems who are holding out on him (ie 10% of Dems), he wins in OH, MI, PA and FL and the election is over. The downside is that the Repubs will have two months to play back tape of her questioning his leadership attributes and the 3am call nonsense and that is probably enough to dissuade Obama from picking her.
Funny isn't it. If she and Bill hadn't behaved so unprofessionally during the primary campaign (at a time when she was going to lose anyway), she would be a certainty for the VP spot.
I think Biden did great during the primaries. I loved his get-out-of-Iraq plan and he would've had my vote if he stuck around. I think he has the foreign experience from the senate committee and the old/white appeal that Obama could really benefit from.
Biden is solid in every aspect. That´s not so say he is bad, but he is the same kind of Democratic congress creature like John Kerry, or Chriss Dodd. If Obama wants to continue playing the judgement vs. experience game he can´t choose Biden (or Bayh, or Clinton).
I am sure he could be an effective attack dog though, if the Obama campaign wants the election to be a little about McCain, too. He looks like an "upgrade" version of McCain, more energetic, taller, and similarly grey-haired and white.
I have a jackpot question: Where will Obama be on Thursday? Florida/Nevada (Clinton)? Virginia (Kaine)? Indiana (Bayh)? Missouri (Sebelius)? Ohio (Biden)?
I'm envisioning Biden for a different role in an Obama administration, perhaps Secretary of State.
Keep in mind in any case that most of the polls cited here are in the context of Biden as potential presidential candidate, not as VP.
I'm always skeptical of any favorability ratings of potential candidates that aren't broken down by partisanship or ideology.
The Republics will bring up the plagiarizing Biden did in '88-- talking about being the son of a coal miner-- which was taken from a British politician. Rove is sitting there with his Biden file ready to go. He was the head of the Anita Hill hearings too. Hey, he'd be exciting no matter what.
Just wanted to put these Biden things on the table for all the kidz out there who don't remember it.
Sebelius is the best choice for Obama. She is a highly popular governor from a red state with a proven record of compromise, she appeards very presidential in her ads, and the two are very compatible.
Sebelius is the best choice for Obama. She is a highly popular governor from a red state with a proven record of compromise, she appeards very presidential in her ads, and the two are very compatible.
Hi guys,
Really a fan of your blog. Been checking it a couple times a day.
There's one thing I'd really like for you all to tackle, though. Can't find anyone else who has.
All the Washington "insiders" say it's key for McCain to know Obama's choice before making his own. They say that's an advantage for him. I've been reading this comment over and over for weeks.
Could you all maybe elaborate on this in a post? What if Obama picks Biden? In which direction does that push McCain? How about if Obama picks Hillary? Etc. Etc.
To state the obvious: the more information McCain has, the better off he is when he makes his pick, but how, in practical terms, does Obama's pick affect McCain's choice?
Need the great minds of fivethirtyeight to make sense of what has become a throwaway line for the pundits!
Thanks
As a Republican who expects Obama to win, Biden would be a good choice. You cannot argue with his foreign policy experience.
Politically speaking, he completely undercuts the post-partisan, change Washington message and I wonder how much he overshadows Obama.