8.21.2008

Democrats Will Be Watching Denver (And We'll Be There)

Interest in the Democratic Convention will be far higher than four years ago, according to a Pew survey out today. Fully 59% of the American public reports interest in the Democratic convention, compared with 48% reporting interest in the Republican convention. From the Boston/New York conventions of 2004, reported interest in the Dem convention in 2008 has flipped from –10 to +11. Interestingly, this switch is entirely due to enthusiasm on the Democratic side, since interest in the Republican convention is fractionally higher than last time also. American interest for the Democratic convention is also higher now than in 1992.



Independents and a base enthusiasm edge are providing the difference. While 59% and 48% represent the percentage of all Americans interested in each convention, there is both an enthusiasm gap among the bases (79% of Dems compared with 70% of Reps) as well as a gap in enthusiasm among independents, who are more interested in the Democratic convention by 12 points.



Another key finding in Pew's survey, Clinton supporters are highly interested in her convention speech. What she says and how she handles the moment should have a significant impact on some of her supporters who have been slow to support Obama. As the findings show, her supporters still care more about what she has to say than what the party's nominee does.



Though Pew didn't ask this question, I'd suspect many of Hillary's supporters will be paying attention to Bill for "the real clues" as to how the Clintons feel. If Hillary gives a warm, embracing speech but Bill is tepid in his support, that's the kind of thing that her voters may well see as "she's being the consummate professional, he's signaling us about what they really feel about this guy."

FiveThirtyEight interest in the conventions will be higher this year too, since we’ll be covering them on location. I asked Nate what angles he thought we should pursue, and he said, “I dunno. Like, politics and stuff.” I’ll let him tell you more about that this weekend, but I will be looking specifically for firsthand information about the ground game for each side. We also seek free palatial accommodations with convenient access to the site, so if our loyal Colorado and Minnesota readers could make that happen for us, that'd be great.

Incidentally, and this isn't worth a whole separate post, Obama may be holding off on the VP announcement – even though he acknowledges he's decided – because right now he’s sitting in a sweet spot. The whole political press is hanging on every word and tea leaf while Obama hammers McCain for a gift-wrapped gaffe. From an Obama perspective, there's not much downside. Though Halperin implies Obama doesn't care about setting folks' ringtones off in the middle of the night.

One additional gift-wrapped line for Tim Kaine, were it to be him: he would get to call himself "one of McCain's many governors."

172 comments

live renats said...

Whatcha think of Hill as the VP Mr Nines?

live renats said...

'It was kinda inevitable' everyone will be saying now.

Alex S. said...

lol @ Halperin....

"It´s 3 AM...."

live renats said...

no, it's 7.06 pm. apparently.

Sean said...

Must... not... answer...

Citizen Grim said...

I demand a poll of Delaware!


Also, this how-many-houses thing will hurt McCain for a day (or a couple days), but it gave his campaign and 527s the opportunity to turn the discussion towards Rezko and Bill Ayers, which is infinitely more damaging than the "celebrity" thing.

live renats said...

Tough. I demand answers.

DCM in FL said...

How many houses do you own, Sean ?

How about Nate ?

live renats said...

dcm: a plague on both their houses. They've really screwed up for Obama with this site.

Darío said...

Rasmussen poll in New Mexico:

With leaners:

Obama 48
McCain 44

Without leaners:

Obama 47
McCain 41

DCM in FL said...

CW on the cable shows tonight [FWIW] is that Obama would have announced today exceptg that this How Many Houses gaffe was too good of a opportunity to step on --- yet.

So would that mean tomorrow or actually wait until they are on the steps of the old state house on Sat ?

Darío said...

Rasmussen announced the tittle of the polls without leaners, this is the "original" poll.

live renats said...

ffs, dario, learn to fucking spell.

pluckon said...

I hope Obama's people have the brains and the guts to use this in a major way, for a whole lot longer than a day or two. It's a golden opportunity.

Seven houses. One for each day of the week. And McCain doesn't know how many he has, or where they are. That, "my friends," is a gift from heaven.

"It's Tuesday, and I'm in Des Moines. I wonder which house my opponent is in today. You do know that he has seven houses, one for each day of the week. So, Senator McCain, which one is your Tuesday house?"

The houses are a great metaphor. Most voters are homeowners, and many of them are not terribly secure in their home ownership. This is something they can relate to. This can be used to protray McCain as both a rich, out-of-touch Republican, and a senile old coot.

"Folks, my opponent couldn't remember his houses. Now, I'd like to see a show of hands. Will anyone who doesn't remember where they live please raise your hand?"

DCM in FL said...

RENATS

a witty retort. :-)

but they only report & comment on the data that is available.

so blame Rassmussen & his numerous new polls on pushing the doom & gloom & game-changing narrative...

BUT Nate's article over on NYMag,com online is an excellent concise piece.

Thanks, Nate !

Can I quote the most pertinent part of it here ?

Nate said:

"All of this is going to produce an enormous volume of polling — and even more commentary on what those polls mean. But polls are less accurate than they claim to be: While a typical reported margin of error might be three or four points, the actual average error in polls conducted in this year’s primaries was closer to seven points. Polls were never really intended to be predictive. They establish voter preferences at the time of survey, but don’t account for how those preferences might change. And there are vast and largely unresolved differences of opinion on methodology among pollsters.

In other words, polls require context to be understood, and their results are easy for media commentators to cherry-pick in order to advance a preferred story."


I could not agree more, except to add how much NOISE they are introducing to the model.

I mean in the last 2 days alone how many national & states polls were released ? what did we learn ?

oh, that we appear to be back to where things stood in April/May...

DaveStew said...

Contact me via my profile under Prof_Dave at DailyKos if you want to stay at my place. More discussion if you are interested via email.

live renats said...

Not sure why they had to wait a whole 3 months before using this 7 houses thing. The Obama team is retarded. This is or should be old news to people here (almost as old as McCain himself).

Pluckon is retarded.

Tito said...

At this point I think Obama is gonna introduce his VP selection Saturday but keep him/her behind a screen and mask the voice to keep ginning up the drama.

If Halperin is right then sending out that text at 3:00 am defeats the purpose of letting supports know first. Also his timeline includes a chance for Republicans to issue statements... yeah, don't see that happening.

It's interesting to me, too, that while 17% of Hillary supporters are not at all interested in Obama's speech, 20% of Obama supporters are not at all interested in hers. Then again, that poll also says that 6% of Obama's own supporters are not at all interested in hear his speech, their own candidate. WTF?

Clark Miller said...

Better day today for Obama than McCain in the polls. Wonder if anyone will report on it. Yesterday, the liberal press seemed to delight that McCain was making inroads. Nate made a lot of hay about it, too. Too much, I thought. McCain's national numbers are still in the low 40s. And today's numbers indicate it isn't time to panic yet for the O-team.

SalP7 said...

Who is speaking at the Republican Convention when the NFL game is on?

DCM in FL said...

renats

do not pick on poor Dario. He is a guest or immigrant in this country even if he has the bad taste to like the CONS...

also Mule Rider reserves the right to drop the F-bomb...

ps - I also make typos since I do not bother to spell czech or poof read [lol]

someperson718 said...

The VP talk has hit a fever pitch along with the ENORMOUS housing gaf, this is beyond interesting at the moment. Every text I get I look for fervently.

Darío said...

Salp7, Lieberman.

DCM in FL said...

DaveStew

is your place palatial as befitting these guys ?

Oprah is renting real palatial digs for her week in CO if the ET has it right... maybe she has extra rooms available.

I am sure Nate & Sean now travel with an entourage [or posse]...

PARTY !

live renats said...
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Tito said...

live renants -

I guess the 7 houses isn't old news to McCain, since he can't even remember how many he has. Grandpa Simpson strikes again.

live renats said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Jack-be-nimble said...

Politico nailed the silly house thing. McCain doesn't own any of the houses. His wife's investments are very much separate. They even have a prenup.

I have now realized that the obama camp is so out of touch that they don't even know what will play or what won't.

It's now below the fold on Drudge. McCain's wise use of the campaign headquartes scare (hoax) was the perfect idea to blow the other stupid story off of the front page.

McCain campaign is like a snake. It waits for each silly move by obama then strikes hard. It is like King Kong trouncing rubberman/

live renats said...

dcm: its only 'czechoslovakia' you don't have to bother spelling. poof. (lol)

Tito said...

Salp7 -

There's something going on opposite of the NFL game that Thursday night? Really? Damn. Who'd make such a novice scheduling mistake like that...

live renats said...

jack-be-nimble: McCain is like a nimble elitist old snake-in-the grass.

DCM in FL said...

are you kidding renats ?

538 is a vitual WORLD now, not just a country. look 5328 even has it's own trolls

wonder if you can buy InTrade with scripts or Lindens yet...

LAT said...

Oh the Obama team is definitely staying on this. The crazed response from the McCain camp showed this drew blood. They had like 5 different responses. The media is running with it because it s new and has teeth. How fun! And pretty pathetic on the Ayers ad by the 527. Not even Fox news will air it because it is full of lies. Excellent that the Obama camp has McCain in full kitchen sink mode. In August! Before the convention!

Virginia Conservative said...

Pointing out it was his wife's was stupid.

So what, now hes homeless?

someperson718 said...

I actually sort of agree with an earlier post saying Obama might have played his VP hand today if not for the houses gaffe. The RNC pulled out the entire kitchen sink to change the narrative, sorry bub, that didn't work AT ALL.

chloroform punk said...

I agree with all of the above.

Jack-be-nimble said...

Did you guys like the campaign induced anthrax scare hoax. Quite brilliant, I think.

Jack-be-nimble said...
This post has been removed by the author.
pluckon said...

Not sure why they had to wait a whole 3 months before using this 7 houses thing.

It's not just that he has seven houses, one for each day of the week. It's that he doesn't remember how many he has. This is priceless.]

"My opponent's campaign has made an issue of my living in a house that cost more than a million dollars. Yes, folks, after 25 years of hard work and some recent good fortune, we were able to buy a nice house on Chicago's South Side. Michelle and I are proud of that house -- which by the way, came with a nice, hefty mortgage.

"John McCain has seven houses. That's right, one house for each day of the week. And when he was asked about his houses, he didn't remember how many he had.

"Now, I'm sure there are some people who don't think that people like Michele and me deserve to live in a nice house. They can think what they want, but I can tell you this much: We will never, ever forget where we live!"

Houses. Seven of them. This is America, a house-crazy nation. Obama, you have been served up a platinum-plated sledgehammer on a sterling silver platter. Pick it up now, and do not stop swinging it until November 4th!

Pluckon is retarded.

BUT NOT SENILE.

Rudy said...

Here's some possible rationale for Hillary as VP choice that I haven't heard elsewhere:

Obama might be worried about a palace revolt given the ungodly deterioration in 538.com win probability, and Hillary might use her roll call vote to foment it.

Remember that the superdelegates aren't committed, so such a scenario is technically possible, admittedly, that's a highly unlikely circumstance,

It may look more real to those so close to the action, especially is the unwinding trends persisted going into the first couple days of the convention and suddenly Hillary would appear riding to the rescue. Gotta believe this has run through Obama's mind.

DCM in FL said...

Word is that McCain spent today at his Sedona estate [oops, or is that a rustic ranch with 6 houses & a pool as they showed off in ArcH Digest]...

anyway, supposedly John is there to film campaign ads - AT HIS & CINDY'S FAB EXCLUSIVE ESTATE !!!

have you seen what the spread looks like from an ariel view ?

gotta luv that continuing the storyline beyond today !

let's compare that to Obama's modest inner-city 'mansion' - anyday.

Jack-be-nimble said...

Obama came to a gunfight with a pocket knife.

He is very much out of his league. The funny thing is that he doesn't even know it.

Mason said...

Politico nailed the silly house thing. McCain doesn't own any of the houses. His wife's investments are very much separate. They even have a prenup.

How is that better than him owning them himself?

Tito said...

I think what some people don't understand about the "seven houses" gaffe is that it's not just tied to one issue. It's a rather marvelous intersection of the economy, being out of touch, and senility. Not saying that he should be attacked on age necessarily, but it's part of the package of this gaffe. This could be the "I was for the war before I was against it" of this campaign.

Alex S. said...

@ V. Con:

Damnit, you´re right. McCain can´t defend himself without digging another hole. Either he is the guy who got most of his wealth by his wife, or he is an old, rich guy who had an "adult moment" (or how did they call Hillary´s sniper fire gaffe?). It´s probably indeed the best way for the Republicans to go on the immediate counter-attack with all they´ve got.
Hats off to you btw, you are one of those conservatives who need to save their party from the fringe.

Virginia Conservative said...

The good news is Obama is about to be knocked out cold by all his shady Chicago associations and Michelle Obama.

Nice going on opening that collective can of worms with your silly class warfare, Barack.

DCM in FL said...

Jack-be-nimble,

were you serious that it was a good move ?

I mean, even the police said it was a hoax & that they could not even find enough grains of anything to take a sample to test.

They said it was not anthrax, so McCain's people come off looking like Chicken Little !!!

and if they try to play the Red Terrorist ALert card like that [again] in the fall, do you not think it will be the Boy Who Cried Wolf [and tried to scare a nation again] ?

sorry, that is a big-time loser meme because people are actually EXPECTING this from the GOPers again this year. Especially the timing & suspicious circumstances - I mean, come on !

Jack-be-nimble said...

You're not connecting on this at all. If they split, he barely has a pot to piss in, compared to her. Its like Pretty Woman, only reversed.

Virginia Conservative said...

The best response he could have made is, "My wife and I are rich. Theres nothing wrong with being rich. I believe the Obama's have quite a large bank account as well, in addition to just about every other person in the Senate."

eve said...

Keys for the convention? Good idea?

a very short video with a clever idea

http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2008/08/our-commenters-make-funny-videos-with.html

live renats said...

I heard it was just some 'white powder',Jack - could be something Obama left over from a drug session and wanted to share with a fellow elitist.

Sedi said...

"Politico nailed the silly house thing. McCain doesn't own any of the houses. His wife's investments are very much separate. They even have a prenup."

The Politico question that set this whole thing off was "How many houses to you and Mrs. McCain have?" The question wasn't just about his houses, it was about his and his wife's. He didn't know. And you think this puts the issue to rest. Ha!

By the way, publicizing that he and his wife have a prenup and that he doesn't really know that much about her property holdings probably isn't the best line of defense. As an Obama supporter, though I say go ahead and make it, since it arguably plays worse than not knowing how many homes you and your wife own.

Can we all please to actually try to check our facts before posting? Of course, it's your right to make yourself look painfully ignorant, but...

Oh, I see that you backed that up with this:
"Obama came to a gunfight with a pocket knife.
He is very much out of his league. The funny thing is that he doesn't even know it."
Now I get it. You're one of the vacuous GOP trolls that just mindlessly claims that Obama is doomed. Got it. I don't need to be surrounded by more stupidity on this site, I'll just stop reading your posts.

Jack-be-nimble said...

You are all missing the point. Look at Drudge. Top line story on houses, bye-bye (below the fold). New story on death threats (on top)

Very clever indeed.

live renats said...

VirginCoynte: Is that Michelle Obama the well known 'Hezbollah terrorist fist-jabber'?

Mason said...

VC-

We've already been over this.
Ayers isn't scary. Obama barely knew the guy at all, and didn't during Ayers' radical years.
Obama bought land at an above-market price from Rezko's wife.
Everyone already knows about Wright. They don't care much.

What other "shady Chicago connections" are there? We're still waiting for the GOP oppo machine to pump something that's actually, you know, illegal. At least find something more distasteful than a kooky old preacher. Those people are a dime a dozen.

live renats said...

Be nimble and try to climb out of the 'Drudge' gutter, Jack.

eponymous said...

You know, I think the pundits are wrong.

So many of them do polls and see that the American people consider "The Economy," or "The Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan" to be the most important issues in their lives.

How silly.

It's clear by the media coverage that the most important issue for the American people is "Total Bullshit."


My God! Someone suggested a candidate is like Britney Spears? Let's spend hours talking about it! A candidate forgot how many houses he owns? Hours of Coverage!


You know what I would like? Let's have a national primary on Tuesday, conventions on Friday, and the general elections on Monday. It only takes a weekend to look at the policies each candidate advocates and decide which you agree with. Then we won't have months and months to over-analyze complete and total bullshit.


But that might undermine our proud tradition as a people of judging our candidates rationally (like based on which looks silly in a tank).

Mason said...

VC-
No doubt that would have been the best response.

Fortunately for Obama, the McCain campaign can be a bit tone-deaf at times.

Jack-be-nimble said...

Whether you like Drudge or not, it is the King of political chatter.

Jack-be-nimble said...
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Virginia Conservative said...
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Virginia Conservative said...

McCain's not the richest guy in the Senate (Rockefeller is), I doubt hes even in the top 10.

live renats said...

And whether I like you or not you seem to be today's king of fuckwits, Jack.

Christopher said...

Why is Halperin all of a sudden talking about Dick Lugar. Man, that would be a wildcard.

Virginia Conservative said...

Actually, none other than John F'in Kerry (funny, I don't remember you upset about his wealthy heiress wife) is #1 and Rockefeller is #2.

Jack-be-nimble said...

The loser is always the one who can't put a decent sentence and resorts to gratuitous name calling.

Open a book. Do some research. Even you can learn.

live renats said...

Drudge is a book?

live renats said...

Take your own advice.

DCM in FL said...

VA CON,

your point is well taken.

IF McCain had deferred to his wife as the owner of the homes [or noted that they were in a family trust] then he could have a reasonable excuse.

Wealthy & fancy cribs actually is fine with most people who are envious. Kennedy's have done it of decades, and Arnie & Marie are living large in CA.

But John intentionally lied/tried to decieve, or did not know, or else was jusyt too clueless to give a reasonable response to a simple question.

"I will have my staff get back to you on that." COME ON ! then they thried to mislead even more...

John does this all the time, and this is basic stuff !

Ties into the numerous too old & out-of-touch memes no matter how you wanna slice it now.

TJB said...

Mason--

The Unabomber Ted Kazinski

The Oklahoma City Bomber Tim McVey

The World Trade Center Bomber Usama Bin Laden

The Pentagon Bomber William Ayers

Mason, which one of those 4 individuals jumpstarted Barrack Obama's political career by having a meet and greet for Obama at the individuals home?

Obama and Ayers are so tied together that Mayor Richard J Daley is actively blocking investigative journalist Stanley Kurtz from reviewing the Annenburg Challenge files at the University of Illinois library.

Ayers is a bomber and Barrack Obama is his friend.

live renats said...

Twat.

Simon said...

OpenSecrets.org has

John Kerry #1
Rockefeller #4
McCain #8
Hillary #9
Obama not in the top 25.

Virginia Conservative said...

Ya know, for five years McCain only had one house.

His prison cell.

eponymous said...

VA Con,

How many member of Congress are actually multi-millionaires anyway? My guess is they're - how should I put this - "overrepresented" compared to the general population.

It's pretty sad that you need that kind of cash to get your foot in on the national scene.

Virginia Conservative said...

Eponymous-

You need to be independently wealth IMHO because 1) you're not going to have any other job if you're a US Senator, 2) makes lobbyists harder to influence you.

I actually trust self funded millionires more than general pols. At least they dont owe special groups any favors.

DCM in FL said...

JAK be nimb,

you serious about Drdge ?

like anyone reasonable takes him for more than his troll stuff is worth - nada

he doesn't push the narrative, unless he breaks some slimy story that no one else would touch... ugh. please do not use that scumsucker to establish creds !

Mason said...

McCain's not the richest guy in the Senate (Rockefeller is), I doubt hes even in the top 10.

Yes, you are correct. His personal wealth is probably in the lowest 20%. Because he was in the Navy until retirement, and then he entered politics his earning potential was "stunted". While federal politics pay well enough, 20+ years in the Navy, even retiring O-6, doesn't pay big bucks. Good pension, though.

That said, it's a little beside the point, as the question was about how many houses he and his wife have. Thus, no, "They're my wife's so they don't count," defense.

Like you said VC - the best defense would have been, "Yeah, we're rich. What of it? Next question."

Virginia Conservative said...

Drudge favors Obama. Its pretty obvious in the pics he takes of him vs. McCain. Good pics of Obama, shitty ones of McCain. The headlines are sympathetic to Obama too.

Hes not a simple partisan Republican, despite what you may think.

DCM in FL said...

RENATS,

some context on your one word post about [t--t] ?

Darío said...

Nate, What??

Now is McCain winning the popular vote and Obama the Electoral Vote?.

I don´t know.

John said...

TJB--

Bill Ayers never killed anyone and Obama and Ayers worked together on the board of a charity decades after Ayers radical past. No one cares about this "scandal" other than Fox News watching morons.

Virginia Conservative said...

Yes, the response was.....tone deaf. Like George H.W. Bush at the checkout counter in '92.

Obama won the battle, but he won't win the war (because this opens up new fronts for McCain).

Next up is how Obama helped plan the radical Million Man March.

Virginia Conservative said...

John-

IIRC Ayers did kill his gf by mistake because the moron didn't know how to assemble bombs correctly. It blew up and killed her in the basement of his own home.

DCM in FL said...

you guys on the right actually admit out loud that you read Drudge ?

and that he means something seriously in regards to this election ?

Darío said...

Why Obama won the battle?.

Tito said...

Drudge is pretty irrelevant these days. I mean, the Lewinsky scandal was 10 years ago. What has he broken since? He reported (Monday I think) that Obama was gonna roll out his VP pick starting Tuesday. Citing Drudge as evidence that the "seven houses" gaffe is no big deal is like saying Paris Hilton is one of the biggest celebrities in the world. Oh, wait...

Virginia Conservative said...

Tito-

He got the Indiana primary right (along with 538).

John said...

VA Con--

You're wrong. Ayers was not involved with that accident.

Simon said...

drudge also, like the asshole he is, broke the prince harry in afghanistan story.

DCM in FL said...

that is odd that 2 of 3 are slight McCain edge at the top right now after today's simulations, but Obama grabbed back the all important EV edge.

McCain is toast - lol

I would have expected that with all the latest national polls showing Obama +3 just out they would have counter-balanced the +5 Zogby outlier by now putting Obama back in the popular vote % lead bu a 1-2% margin...

But is Nate running his National popular % off the national polls [without showing us that data] or is he deriving them just from the state polling ?

Mason said...

TJB-
I'm sorry, perhaps I was unclear:

Ayers was involved in the Weathermen in 1969-1970.

Senator Obama was 10.

Perhaps if the prosecutors hadn't been running roughshod over civil rights (CONINTELPRO), Ayers would have gone to jail. But they did, and he's not. He's now a productive member of society, a free man, and remains fully-enfranchised. Get over it, little Hoover.

Tito said...

VCon -

Drudge is a pollster now? Well ain't he just a jack of all trades. So, one guess at one primary out of 50+ this year. That's all he's done in the last ten years then.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Since nobody's talking polls...

The McCain gaff was reported on every Local news station on TV. ABC, CBS, NBC, channel 9 and even the local Fox news channel showed both clippings of Obama's speech in VA today and clippings of Obama's commercial entitled 7.

There was hardly any of McCain's responses.

And, saying Obama and Michelle are elite is just rediculous. They just paid off their school loans a few years ago, Obama didn't earn over 1 million until last year.

They are the complete opposite of elite. They are the American dream. Obama gained a scholarship to attend a private HS, both took loans out for school, studied hard, worked hard, and are now being rewarded for their hard work. Both came from low income families. If anyone knows the hardships of low to middle income workers, it would be Barack and his wife.

The Ayers video isn't being picked up by anyone. It is now being reviewed for its legality. Looks like a big flop just like the Corsi book was.

Hopefully this horrible gaff by McCain is drilled at every day, keeping McCain on the defensive. I'm not usually a vindictive guy but after how the McCain campaign has been behaving and its' surrogates, I'll be satisfied if a majority of the U.S. hates McCain for being the dirty Washington, out of touch, politician he really is.

filistro said...

Great moments in political gaffedom:

* Pappy Bush glances at his watch during a debate

* Gerald Ford trips on the stairs

* Dan Quayle can't spell "potato"

* Michael Dukakis rides in at tank

* John Kerry goes windsurfing

* John McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns!

Yup, this is one for the ages. It's world class.

Mason said...

Jesus, VC. You're too good to be making unforced errors like that. Look stuff up before you post it.

Please?

Virginia Conservative said...

You forgot:

*Al Gore saying he invented the internet

*Obama saying people in small towns cling bitterly to religion and guns

*Obama calling his grandma a typical white person

Andrew said...
This post has been removed by the author.
filistro said...

oops, I forgot one of the other great ones... LBJ picking up his dog by the ears.

live renats said...

Hey fistlitter, what's up?

Andrew said...

Congrats Sen. Jack Reed!!!!! Just heard the good news on Potus '08. I guess he got a phone call though. Can't wait for the text message later tonight or tomorrow morning!

Virginia Conservative said...

Andrew, link?

Mason said...

VC-
Gore never said that.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

Andrew said...

To a radio show? Just ask someone with XM, theres got to be someone.

Virginia Conservative said...

I didn't think he was a finalist.

ogre said...

VC, oh please, please... let McCain's campaign make a really, really big deal of the fact that HE doesn't own houses, his wife owns them all.

1. He still "has" (he and his wife) a bunch of houses and he doesn't have a clue how many? Ah, yes, Mr. In Touch With Normal Americans there...

2. It opens WIDE the door for us--and the media--to ask WHY his wife trusts him so much that she got a pre-nup and doesn't own those houses WITH him... and WE AMERICANS ought to trust him with Our House.

Oh, yeah.

Virginia Conservative said...

Mason-

The public precieved that that is what he meant.

In politics, perception is reality.

Mason said...

VC-
I sense chain yankage in Andrew.

Reed also said he didn't want it on 14 July 2008, but we know how much that's worth.

deanscream said...

Nobody cares, but McCain only owns 3 of those houses (4 are the equviliant to timeshares)

Obama also claims he owns one house, but how does he live in DC when Congress is in session?

Ponder these thoughts for a moment......

Virginia Conservative said...

I just don't see this breaking on any news sites. I don't think its Jack Reed. Hoax?

filistro said...

Hi Rugnuts.

Have you stopped picking on Dario?

Not only is Dario a really nice guy, he's the only one in here who always stays on topic.

Mason said...

VC-
Perception may be reality, but it's not a "gaffe" because Al Gore never actually, you know, said that.

It's more like a "meme".

Tito said...

Listening to XM now.

It's a replay of Press Pool, which is live from 2-4 ET I believe. Anything you heard Andrew was speculation.

No announcement as of yet. Besides, I didn't get no freakin text message.

Mason said...

Hoax

Spidey sense says si.

live renats said...

"rugnuts" ... don't make me blush.

Andrew said...

To clarify: They're saying he was vetted and that tonight he was informed that he was the choice and to remain quiet. It could have been a hopeful voice in the Reed camp that was putting out an exaggerated leak and turning a talk or a phone conversation with Obama into serious VP talks or the VP nomination, so don't read too much into this. It doesn't sound very Obama-like for this to leak before the text messages, so I'll admit I wouldn't put too much stock into this. I didn't think he was a finalist either.

Darío said...

Thank you filistro, you´re a women no?.

Virginia Conservative said...

Andrew, this reminds me of The NY Post saying Gephardt was Kerry's choice in '04. Hoax!

live renats said...

Btw, not only can Dario not spell, he bores the 'drudge' out of me.

Mason said...

Obama also claims he owns one house, but how does he live in DC when Congress is in session?

Most members rent. There are actually the congressional equivalent of flop houses in Capitol Hill, where one member will buy a large house and rent it out to other members, usually but not always, of the same party.

filistro said...

yes, Dario.

live renats said...

Guess I hadn't finished 'picking'.

Tito said...

Andrew -

Whatever you might have heard had to be the level of some kind of psychic leak because the show that is on now was originally broadcast six hours ago. So if someone said he was informed "tonight", well, that'd be more than mere speculation. That'd be fantasy.

Mason said...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,283612,00.html

Confirmation - BHO rents a townhouse in NE.

Andrew said...

I didn't realize it was from six hours ago, but yes that's where I got it from. Take it with a grain of salt.

DCM in FL said...

I for one would like to see McCain explain how he olnly owns 3 homes & that the other 4 [or is it 6] are 'timeshares' of a sort...

What sort ? I have one week in a timeshare [if the Storm In FL has not destroyed it yet since it got pounded today].

Of course, whether they are Cindy's, in trust or his [or joint with his ex-wife still] that is a lot of RE. But the 'ranch' is Sedona is actually a spectacular 6 house w/pool sprawling estate in the Red Rocks where mere mortals can no longer afford...

it is not the modest rancho cabin that McCain tries to pretend it is [they did a multi-million $$$ update/remodel in the past few years & posed in an Arch Digest spread].

Run the Arch Digest spread in an ad - defend that as a perk of dumping wife #1 for Cindy & the corporate jet too that flies them & friends into Sedona.

I wanna fly on a private jet too just like all the other regular guys.

But at least they do not let John fly the jet since he has such a history of crashing & flaming out with jets...

filistro said...

Every one of the gaffes I mentioned sank deep into the national psyche because it reinforced an already established mindset about the politician in question.

The danger of thsi one to McCain is not that he's rich. It's that he's rich, senile and out of touch.

DCM in FL said...

Re: housing in DC

or maybe Obama does the old Lincoln share a room [& a bed] while in DC to save on rent ? lol - sorry, my bad

Virginia Conservative said...

Bill Kristol had the best response.

McCain used to have one house--the Hanoi Hilton.

Tito said...

Bill Kristol is a cu... Well, you know - what John McCain calls his wife.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

The most idiotic response from the McCain campaign was the following as per talkingpointsmemo.com.

"The McCain campaign is road-testing a new argument in responding to Obama's criticism of his number-of-houses gaffe, an approach the McCain camp has never tried before: The houses gaffe doesn't matter because ... he was a POW!

"This is a guy who lived in one house for five and a half years -- in prison," spokesman Brian Rogers told the Washington Post."

Can you believe it?

They played the POW card.

And they played it FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE DECK! *snicker*

Regarding the Reed story. I also heard that through the grapevine. I'm still counting on Obama to pull a zinger and pick Mark Warner.

deanscream said...

Mason- that clarifies that, but McCain is essientially doing that with the other 4 (those 3 he owns, including that mansion are fair game)

DCM - I don't believe that McCain can fly anything anymore, after all he spend 5.5 years in a POW camp....thats why hes on the Straight Talk Express?

DCM in FL said...

VA CON

but back in those days John had one wife too and look how that turned out...

[although he also cheated on her allegedly even before his aldultery w/Cindy]

filistro said...

Oooh, that's risky, VCon. Bring up Hanoi and people will wonder...DID those prison years damage a few brain cells? How else does a guy forget how many houses he owns?

Virginia Conservative said...

Mark Warner knows better than to become a part of a risky ticket when he could get a what will essentially be a coronation for his Senate seat (even *I* may vote for him, thats how much Gilmore sucks)

Virginia Conservative said...

Go ahead and denigrate his brave service filistro. It will backfire.

Mason said...

VC-
Thing is, I don't think he wants to over play that card. He doesn't want to end up like Rudy:

"Subject verb 9/11."

It's a useful part of his narrative, but if you use it every single time you get in trouble, it loses it's punch.

Mason said...

Filistro-

Get out of my head please.

Thank you.

Virginia Conservative said...

I don't think being tortured for five and a half years in a damp one room cell will ever lose its "punch".

DCM in FL said...

deanscream,

actuallly I understand they changed [flip-flopped] the name of his bus now.

since John professed his love of ABBA music & has trouble with facts, they are calling it the Starlight Express...

can you see him in a musical on rollerskates ? since he does skits on SNL, I can !

[and in MN Norm Coleman has the nerve to criticize Franken for his SNL days while McCain is luvin it]

rock on, John Mac !

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Hey deanscream, the question was how many houses do you and Mrs. McCain have. Here is the link for you buddy. You can thank me later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajB-vsqgZ3o

Mason said...

And Rudy didn't think 19 terrorists flying 767s into buildings on national TV would either

Yet, here we are.

Any time you expose someone to repeated stimuli, they eventually learn to tune it out at an unconscious level. It's just biology.

John Nail said...

The "House" Story is a gift that will give a few more good days:

1) "Staff" - per the McCain tax returns. In 2007 they spent $273K, up from 4158K the year before for household staff due to their new homes. So they spent more on "help" than all but 2-3% of America earned last year.

1A) Did the help have green cards

2) "Kids" - how much did they spend buying their 20 something kids like blogger Meghan lofts/condos

3)"Credit Cards" - now that Pandora's box on the McCain's is open how about the Amex charges listed in their tax returns. Cindy $1M, Meghan, $50K etc.

More will likely come up but this is like Christmas very early

deanscream said...

I don't think being tortured for five and a half years in a damp one room cell will ever lose its "punch

Not until Obama makes it "uncool" to serve in or respect the armed forces.....



Has anyone (Obama or McCain) made any statements on that Drinking Age at 18 law?

filistro said...

VCon, I feel guilty. You're like the noble old stag, ringed about by hunters, staggering under all the spears but still fighting gamely.

Where are all your friends tonight? Somebody needs to be in here helping you.

LAT said...

it is pretty bad to use the POW every time there is something going wrong with your campaign. Every talk show tonight actually went into the McCain camp going into Rudy Gulliani territory with his use of 9/11. They should save it for foreign policy and security but the economy? The fact that Kristol went there tells you everything you need to know.

Virginia Conservative said...

I bet you guys felt real confident in 2004, didn't you?

McCain will win. Watch for the swiftboaters.

Virginia Conservative said...

The Rezko thing is all over TV tonight BTW, even on the liberal MSNBC.

Its working. Stupid of Obama to bring up houses!

Mason said...

VC-
Nope.

1) Incumbent President.
2) Middle of a war.
3) John Kerry resembles a totem pole.

liberal_defender_of_freedom said...

Everyone just power down the PC's and go to bed. VC has just announced McCain will win. Sorry for him spoiling your site guys.

Well VC, since Pickens and Obama are buddies now, who's gonna fund em?

Virginia Conservative said...

1)Risky Unkown Candidate
2)Russia invading Georgia
3) The Surge brought us victory in Iraq.

Have fun blaming it on Diebold.

Mason said...

VC-
Rezko. Made. Money. Off. Obama.

realistxxx said...

Virginia Conservative said...

I don't think being tortured for five and a half years in a damp one room cell will ever lose its "punch".

Ah, but there's the rub. According to the Bush Administration's definition of torture that Johnny Mac supported, he was merely subjected to enhanced interogation. He and Bush now believe he wasn't tortured, based on the current official US govt. definition.

I can see how enhanced interogation loses it's impact both now and then compared to TORTURE.

Mason said...

No one cares about Georgia. Most people can't point it out on a map, much less figure out why Russia would want to invade it.

deanscream said...

Hey deanscream, the question was how many houses do you and Mrs. McCain have. Here is the link for you buddy

I've seen that video, everyone has. To answer that question, McCain has 4 houses (not changing my answer, just correcting myself)I have a disney timeshare, do you consider that a house? If so than McCain has 7 houses

filistro said...

LOL on the "Starlight Express" by the way! That was brilliant, dcm.

What's more, McCain has clearly been listening to it. He's already used the lyrics against Obama!

Mason said...

DS-
Why didn't he know that, then? It's one digit? How hard is it to say, "My wife and I own four houses and a few timeshares."

The problem isn't the rich bit. Rich people have multiple houses. That's what rich people do. Heck. Some middle income people have multiple houses. The problem is that he didn't know off the top of his head.

deanscream said...

Mason - I'm not running for President nor am I John McCain. I cannot answer that one because i have never run for public office.

Mason said...

DS-
Yeah... That's what's weird about it. Hell, I know the minimum of how many houses my coworkers have.

At least the ones who talk about such matters.

*shrug* Whatever.

Shap said...

I count less than 5 posts on topic here, the rest is just flame wars.

Everyone, please stop feeding the trolls!

Darren said...

Obama won a news cycle with "houses" but it's on the eve of his VP pick and 2 conventions. There is no deeper black hole for a gaffe to fall in. The media had 6 weeks of dead air to fill between primaries when Wright and "bitter" came out.

Obama may add this to his fall stump speech and run some ads but it will be old news by Saturday. The media will move on and he will be the only one talking about it.

By the way, what happened to Conegate? It was only 5 days ago. That died a quick death.

Mason said...

Shap-

We know about DNFTT, but you have to balance that with the theory of the Big Lie.

When stuff is said that is completely disconnected from reality, it has to be tamped down.

PeteKent said...

VC had the best line of the night with remark about the home McCain had as a prisoner.

You make this 7 home thing sound like a big deal. I don't think it’s Kerry and the rich charge redux. McCain is a gritty plain spoken man; Kerry had the hauteur of a Boston Brahmin so that stuff stuck better to him. Also Mrs. Heinz was an outspoken foreign woman. Very different from the much more demure Cindy McC.

I do think the gaffe was in simply not knowing how many houses he had, and it reflects on the age thing. But that is proving to be dangerous territory. As he proved at Saddleback, McCain is very good when he is on his game.

The question itself was odd and somewhat impertinent. Attacking someone for their wealth and possessions is not really fair game unless those gains are ill-gotten.

Unfortunately for Obama he has his own housing crisis to deal with. The Rezko thing was pretty much inside the beltway stuff during the primaries, but now it has already become the subject of a counter commercial.

Timing here is really not on Obama's side. He has got to announce his VP pick soon and that will suck all the air out of the room and the seven house story will die for lack of Oxygen.

What McCain said was a gaffe, but the Rezko thing has real legs given Obama's history of "malassociations". We'll wait and see.

******

On another subject I don't know how many of you have XM radio and listen to POTUS, but if you do, you can hear the entirety of the candidates' stump speeches.

Obama spoke in Chester, VA, today. I believe that is suburban Richmond. Some observations: he continued to whine about McC's attacks on him, especially the questioning of his patriotism. Bad move to do that and recite at length your opponent's attacks. He of course brought up the house thing. He covered a lot of other standard stuff, including ending the War and getting back that $10 BB/mo we are spending on it. He also used that voice he uses when he tries to sound Black, dropping his Gs. A big contrast to how he sounds in debate forums. Will the real Barack Obama please stand up.

What was most striking was how tepid the applause and how disengaged the crowd seemed, despite Obama's near shrillness. You could tell his decline in the polls and the lack of adulation was getting to him.

Never forget that Obama is no pro. This is his first time on the national stage for any sustained length of time. Time will tell how well he bears up.

The tortoise and the hare, my friends, the tortoise and the hare!

Mason said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Mason said...

Pete-
Why do you write anymore?

No one reads you. You may as well pipe it to /dev/null.

PeteKent said...

Who are you, Mason? I have never noticed you before.

What is you POV?

Are you a troll?

What is dev/null?

Matthew H said...

Wow, VC. You're doin' good.

But the whole "it's OK because 40 years ago I was a war hero" gets old real fast. At some point, it occurs to people that having been a war hero is not really something that's useful to a President. I don't think Putin is shaking in his boots because McCain got a stick shoved in his butt for five years.

You know, the weird part is, McCain was in the military for 25 years or so. Five of those years were living in the hut getting pounded. But the other 20 years were the ones where he actually would have done things that would be useful to a President. But you never seem to hear about those years.

Anyhow, VC, as you point out, it doesn't matter what the facts are. It's the impression. And the impression is that McCain is richer than anyone can imagine, out of touch, old, and forgetful.

The greatest part is, though, that his defense goes into an even better image:

John McCain is pussy-whipped.

That's why he lashes out at women, because he's so badly whipped by his wife. If she wants the drinking age to be 18, he'd better lower that drinking age, or the home he'll be living in is the doghouse. He'd better be nice to her on the trail, or she'll take her jet and make him walk home. She runs his life: you can see it when they're together. She releases the pet dogs to make him look more at home, and makes sure he doesn't stay up too late on the trail.

W-H-I-P-P-E-D.

Never mind that Cindy McCain would make a better president than John (and quite possibly a better president than Barack). We're not electing somebody who's pussy-whipped into the white house. Ain't gonna happen.

Subterranean said...

ROFL, can you imagine how frustrating it must be to be McCain's campaign manager? At this point they should probably just cut his media access entirely---it's only going to get worse.

Can someone link me to a summary of the Republican primaries? How the hell did this guy get nominated?

I mean, WTF. Five years of enhanced interrogation doesn't qualify as executive experience. At least give me Romney, who has proven his ability to field-strip American industry and auction everything off to the highest bidder. THAT I can respect.

Mason said...

PK-
I've been around. That you haven't noticed me is not my concern.

pluckon said...

Obama had a good day, but I'm not at all confident that he will sustain his attack on McCain. I think he's got Kerry's disease. I think the whole Democratic Party has it, and I think it has damn near crippled our officeholders.

The Republicans in general, and McCain in particular, are incredibly weak in fundamental terms, but they're tactically formidable. The Republican slander machine is well matched to the hollowed-out, Republican media. It is a testament to the strength of those tactics that they can be used to support such disastrous people and policies.

By this time next week, McCain's houses will be forgotten, and Obama will be formally nominated. A week after that, the Republicans will be back on the attack, and Obama will be holding another seminar, watching his approval rating sing slowly into the ground.

It's not what I want to see, but I think it's what will happen. Democrats have forgotten how to fight, and when that happens you lose.

Foregone Conclusion said...

I'm going to say it right now. THE HOUSE STORY DOESN'T MATTER. Politicos slowly lose touch of what ordinary people think - they get a skewed idea of what ordinary people think instead. It's a touch elitist (and conservatives and liberals can be equally guilty of this) to think that 'heartland voters' are Neanderthals who can only be reached by turning economic issues into social issues; thus 'seven houses - BAD!' They're thinking people, but they don't care about the seven houses! Even I'm bored with the story, and I'm a political freak.

If Obama hits McCain on things like his votes against the G.I. Bill and SCHIP and his transmogrification into a typical conservative, and then sells his own plans, Obama will win this election, and he will win it on the issues.

And did any of you see this article about McCain's shoehorning of his POW record into everything?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/21/mccain-camp-plays-pow-car_n_120428.html

I particularly liked his rebuttal on health insurance. Obama isn't the only one with message problems.

Cugel said...

It doesn't matter how many houses McCain has! It matters that he doesn't know how many houses he has!

That's what makes him out of touch. And Obama is hammering this directly for once:

"If you don't know how many houses you have, then it's not surprising that you might think the economy was fundamentally strong. But if you're like me, and you've got one house, or you are like the millions of people who are struggling right now to keep up with their mortgage so they don't lose their home, you might have a different perspective," Obama said.

McCain is so out of touch that he doesn't know how many houses he has. This is exactly like George H.W. Bush looking amazed and delighted to watch a super-market checkout scanner because he'd never seen one before.

The minute I saw that video, I knew he'd lost that election.

This isn't as big as the Bush gaffe, because it's not visual, but it's big nonetheless. It totally undercuts McCain's attacks on Obama as "elitist" which were always incredibly stupid. But, he was getting away with it because the media weren't calling him on it constantly. They NEVER want to stand up for the truth, instead automatically going to a "he said, she said" style.

BTW: McCain has 12 houses, not 4, not six.

"McCain's campaign says the Arizona senator has four residences: condos in Phoenix, Arlington, Va., and Coronado, Calif., and a house in Sedona, Ariz. All are owned by his wife, Cindy, and their children, who also own eight other residential properties. . . .The dozen properties are worth more than $10 million, current assessments show."

信次 said...

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