MSNBC's First Read reports that the moderators for the three Presidential Debates have been chosen. They are Jim Lehrer of PBS, Tom Brokaw of NBC, and Bob Schieffer of CBS. Gwen Ifill of PBS will moderate the Vice Presidential debate.
This lineup is nearly identical to 2004, except that Brokaw is replacing Charlie Gibson in the second debate. Whether this is a direct response to ABC's much-criticized Philadelphia debate during the Democratic primaries, I don't know -- I'm frankly not sure about how these things are negotiated -- but it's probably a slight break for Obama. It's also a bit of a break in tradition for ABC, which has moderated far more debates than the other major networks (see table below).
One break for McCain? The first and third debates will feature both candidates seated, rather than standing at their podiums (the second is a town-hall format), depriving Obama of the opportunity to fully leverage the aesthetics of his height advantage.
(h/t DemConWatch)
8.06.2008
ABC Dealt Out Of Presidential Debates
@ 10:58 PM
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38 comments
Nate, I'm not sure where you're getting your information about Edwin Newman, but he was affiliated with NBC (radio and television) at least as far back as Jack Kennedy's assassination. He might have been billed as a correspondent for the Sun in some sort of sponsorship agreement, but it's not like he was independent of the TV networks.
"It's also a bit of a break in tradition for ABC, which has moderated far more debates than the other major networks (see table below)."
Is PBS not a major network?
Debates moderated: PBS:16, ABC:10, CBS:3, NBC:2, CNN:2.
News out Today. "Senator Hillary Clinton's name has re-emerged among Barack Obama's short list for potential VP candidates"
I don't know if Hillary would be a good pick or a disaster, but it would be exciting. Americans who love a good story would vote for that ticket just to see what happens next. The cable news shows would salivate, and McCain would be in bad shape for press coverage against those two.
Even thought this opens Barack up to plenty of criticism, that ticket would be like a train moving down the tracks. The election would be over.
Clinton re-emerging on medias lists means nothing.
of course this was a result of that ABC Debate.
That debate and the Las Vegas Debate was proven to be tilted towards Clinton. And it was proven that George S. actually asked questions from the media hack, Sean Hannity.
Sorry, that did hurt ABCs credibility, that is journalistic credibility.
If anything it decreases the odds of Obama picking her, because of a desire to generate buzz with an unexpected choice.
Hillary back on a list she NEVER WAS ON? How clever?
Really, the Clintons are a bitter bunch, right now.
We don't need that drama and baggage they bring along. Hell, you can't talk to Hillary without it going through 50 committees before a sit down. That is the Clinton way, let's pass on them.
I don't know that NBC/Brokaw and CBS/Schieffer will be any less of a disgrace than ABC/Gibson, but perhaps this will teach a lesson for these "moderators" not to get their debate prep from right-wing talk radio.
I had a nice hearty laugh when I read that ABC was being passed up for the debates. Well deserved after that horrible display of what they called a debate. Looks like that "debate" bit them in the ass at the worst possible moment. I hope C.G. and G.S. enjoyed their five minutes of fame. It came at a very steep cost.
Good riddance. That ABC debate was an absolute mockery of journalism and the entire democratic process.
I'm sure that Virginia Conservative meant recent history about Ohio. The electoral map and voting trends took some big twists and turns through our very short history.
It's really a shame that everybody just argues. Don't you know that is why there is a blog space here? If Nate Silver just wanted to try his hand at poll averaging this place would look more like Real Clear Politics where you can actually get some news... not just bias and opinion. This is the fastest way to create buzz at your expense... unless your time is worth nothing to you.
No one is going to change the mind of anyone. Either you are a capitolist, a socialist, or you really don't care which. One of those three. If I try to alter your way of thinking it's like trying to talk the terrorist out of cutting my head off just because I'm not a "good muslim". It just doesn't change a thing.
If you ask me if I am better off now than I was 8 years ago the answer is an immediate yes. My income has tripled, I own a $500,000 house, I got married to the best woman I have ever known and I'm happier than I have ever been. I truly believe if Obama is elected that will all change. So I probably have a pretty good reason to not want his kind of "change".
I have tried to be as respectful as I can with this explaination.
It came out today that Hillary is putting hreself up for nomination at the convention. She probably got the word that she is not going to be picked. So it's my guess they want her to still believe she's under consideration.
But that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
"I have tried to be as respectful as I can with this explaination."
i can appreciate your honesty. refreshing. i am an obama supporter but i can appreciate your logic and reason for not wanting him. i think that for the regular voter, ideological bent doesn't change a whole lot. a lot of republicans don't like bush. they want someone new, but only a small amount, at most 15%-at most- will vote for obama. everyone will grudgingly vote for their party.
For those who aren't politically involved, that's a different. they don't have an ideological bent. and if you can get them involved in active citizenship, then these will support you. Those are the one who change their minds about who to support. I mean, republicans don't always have the best policies for rural america, but they often vote republican. it's because, republicans have learned how to engage them, and how to relate to them before they became fully involved in politics and didn't a political frame to view their everyday life.
DarienCrow, why are you still here? You have repeatedly insisted that this site is biased in terms of its coverage.
If you remain at a site that you vocally assert to be journalistically unreliable, you are either an idiot or an asshole.
This reminds me of an old Saturday Night Live fake ad from the Bush-Dukakis race. "Bush. He's taller."
I am actually curious now. What is the predictive power of the candidates' height, neglecting all other factors. I seem to recall a study from the early 90s that concluded that height is a statistically significant factor in major elections, including President, Congress, and Governors.
ABC News has truly lowered their journalistic standards. Just go look at their web page: "Top Headlines" include "Top Stoner Flicks", "Lisa Marie Eating for Three", "Villains Take Center Stage", "Puppies Rescued Through Floor", "Hoax Exposes Sex Ad Responses", "Video Resumes: Light, Camera, Hire Me!", a book review about a stalker, an internet surfing addict rehab piece, and a day after competing energy proposals by the candidates, their political headline story is: "Michelle Obama: Barack is No Elitist. Potential first lady weighs in on ads mocking her husband as a celebrity."
They should be barred from journalism, not just the debates. Disgusting. When you read this post, go back and check their site again and see what new drivel they have up there.
Darien,
Minor Quibbles,
Unless there is no mortgage on your home, you don't own it, the bank does. Further, I don't know where you live, but 500K in DC gets you a middle-class 1500 sq foot rowhouse, but in Atlanta would get you a 4bdr, 3ba home.
Further, I suspect there is some youth bias to your income situation (as is the case with mine). My yearly income went up 8x during the Bush admin, but it had nothing to do with with Bush policies, but because I graduated college, grad school, post-grad, and had started from a job that paid 12 bucks an hour repairing bowling lane machines when it was 2000.
What I can say is that the Bush admin took a projected budget surplus over this period of 3 trillion, and started with a 3 trillion debt. We now have a 9 trillion debt and no surplus.
That...is going to harm this nation long-term
R-Boy endorses neither candidate as he is majorly jaded.
I am so happy to see ABC not moderating any of the debates. Their last performance was a disgrace.
"Capitolist" or socialist, Mr. Crow? It is that limited scope of thinking that there are always only two choices that so hinders the Republican party. Of course they like to use that inability (or unwillingness) to really think to manipulate voters into fairy tale politics of good versus evil rather than risk voters actually looking at policy positions and proposed plans.
Have you perhaps heard of Warren Buffett? He is a rather successful capitalist who supports Democratic candidates including Obama. Of course I could list many well known capitalists who are liberal and/or Democrats. You show yourself to be silly and unimaginative in you attempt to stereotype.
TYPO: The link to the url for the Philadelphia Debate doesn't work.
Dariencrow -
The only part of your post I agree with is the part where you say that no-one can change your mind. However, for the sake of third parties, I will address your comments.
"Either you are a capitolist, a socialist, or you really don't care which"
If this is what you think, then I feel that you owe it to your country to inform yourself better.
The capitalist (note spelling) system works best when it is supported by some degree of regulation, and by some degree of social cooperation for things like public education, law enforcement, emergency response, health care delivery, protection of the environment, and aid for the disabled, elderly, and poor.
That is how every major capitalist country operates - the United States, Canada, more or less all of Western Europe, Japan, Australia, etc.
Both major US parties endorse this model. If you want to get rid of all social cooperation, you're a "libertarian" or some such thing.
The Democratic Party is not "socialist". There are a number of outright socialist or communist parties running presidential candidates. Barrack Obama is not such a candidate.
As for your suggestion that you will lose your "$500,000 house" if Obama is elected, what the hell, if you'll excuse my language, could you possibly mean by that? We've seen a major collapse in housing prices under Bush, of course. And a bigger collapse than reported, because the dollar that those prices are quoted in is collapsing, too.
I'm a little confused by Nate's insistance that sitting actually hurts Obama. If anything, McCain is the one to usually insist on townhall style debates. Obviously, this is not because he likes looking shorter than his opponent, but rather because he likes the impromtu, less formal conversation that occurs.
Obama is great at making speeches. He also is a great thinker. However, he is not great at coming up with his own smooth soundbytes on the fly, and "normal" debate (#'s 1,3) are easier to prepare for, if only because network media is fairly predictable. I think the debate format helps Obama.
Thoughts?
I think it is a serious mistake for Obama to not have at least one podium debate. A podium makes him look presidential and allows for a more contentious debate.
Sitting at a table, even an asshole like Dick Cheney was able to win some debates. Not sure if this is still being negotiated by Rahm Emmanuel, but they should ask that the first or third debate be at podiums.
Some might have forgotten that during the 2004 debates Bush's half was cropped and moved upwards in TV so that he appeared as tall as Kerry. Are you sure it isn't going to happen this year if they were given a chance to stand?
Well, if you want to know what I actually think, they should have British parlimentary debate, a la "ask the prime minister." Obama probably couldn't handle the aggresive style, and McCain would likely go beserks ...
To the reasonable ones here: please do not engage in back and forth with trolls; it just encourages them and pollutes the site. Thank you.
hijadelSol79, I think you are right in your analysis that the traditional debate format of answering media questions favors Obama over the town hall style format. In the past, these types of debates had the candidates standing at a podium. If these debates were done that way, it would be even more advantageous to Obama given the visual of his height advantage and the fact that this seems to positively influence voters.
Another Mike -
"To the reasonable ones here: please do not engage in back and forth with trolls; it just encourages them and pollutes the site. Thank you."
I'm sure we mainly agree, but I do have to respond to this.
There is no reason not to rebut obviously false arguments, once.
I have noticed this to be the general state of affairs on progressive or other reasonable sites - right wingers make comments, the comments are reasonably rebutted, but then someone begins wringing his hands with concern and and beseeching that "trolls" be ignored.
I find the latter attitude to be somewhat akin to the "please don't hurt me" style of some liberals.
I haven't even found Dariencrow to be a troll (yet). He expressed his right wing opinion. It was objectively wrong, and that was addressed. It was a common right wing oversimplification - "capitolist" (sic) versus "socialist" - that deserves to be addressed as often as possible.
I certainly agree that repetitive trolls have to ignored and moderated eventually, but simply surrendering and refusing to answer any comments that deviate from the norm of a site is silly.
Wingnut sites so shut down "opposition" by immediately banning anyone who questions the groupthink. I don't think that's a very good practice.
I think harold is expressing a wise opinion. At Free Republic, for instance, the definition of a "troll" is anybody who is not 100% Republican. Because they ban all dialogue and idological give-and-take, they create for themselves the cmnfortable illusion that everybody thinks the same as they do.
So they're always saying that polls showign a tight race have to be wrong/skewed/biased/unbalanced etc etc, because "I don't know anybody who supports Obama."
And then, inevitably, they get an awful shock on voting day... but they never seem to learn that talking wth the enemy can be both instructive and productive.
When Bush took office in January 2001:
The unemployment rate was 4.2%, now it is 5.5%.
The inflation rate was 3.7%, now it is 4.1%.
Gasoline was around $1.45, now it is over $4.00.
The S&P 500 was 1,342 and now it is 1,261.
The trade weighted dollar was 122.7, now it is 96.0.
The Republicans keep warning us that if we elect a Democratic president things will go in the opposite direction.
Really?! Please?
I was surprised to see Schieffer get the nod after his bias was exposed in the Wesley Clark interview. Isn't his brother also a business associate of W's? I know Bob S. has been in the news biz a long time, but people who wear their ideology on their sleeves shouldn't be moderators, they should be post-debate commentators at most.
"If you want to get rid of all social cooperation, you're a "libertarian" or some such thing."
Please, can I ask that people who comment here have some idea of what they are talking about? Libertarians are not against "social cooperation," just most or all government.
And from today's "Top Headlines" from ABCNews.com:
"Suri Cruise STILL Drinks From the Bottle"
"Bob's Big Boy Fires Big Guy"
"Lohan 'Hearts' Ronson"
"Celeb Makeovers: 'G's to Gents'"
And my favorite:
"Lohan Fam Locks Horns With Newsman"
Who is the supposed "News" man? CNN's own Anderson Cooper, demonstrating that ABC is hardly alone in elevating gossip to prime time news.
mdf1960 -
"Please, can I ask that people who comment here have some idea of what they are talking about? Libertarians are not against "social cooperation," just most or all government."
This thread is pretty dead, so I'll address this.
I obviously didn't offer that up as a definition of "libertarianism".
Nevertheless, government institutions that protect the interests of, or provide a benefit to, the community as a whole, such as public education, law enforcement, emergency services, health care services, environmental regulations, food inspection, public health monitoring, provision of clean water, and so on, ARE a strong form of social cooperation.
These things were democratically established.
Many libertarians DO want to shut down government provision of much of this, and if you don't believe me, just log onto a libertarian site and ask directly. You'll get some dissembling, but you'll also get some honest confirmation.
Certainly, libertarians don't oppose voluntary social cooperation.
To be more precise, libertarians are against any legal requirement that the individual respect socially cooperative institutions. You can decide for yourself whether this would have any effect on the extent of social protection, and whether or not you want the "market" only to protect you from the things the institutions I mentioned above protect you from.
If you think I'm wrong, or if you're a libertarian who disagrees with what I said, please feel free to reply PRECISELY. Talk about the government services I mentioned in this post and specifically how you would deal with them if given the chance, and how this differs from what I said.
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