Thursday, July 3, 2008

Speaking of North Dakota...

...it's one of several states that haven't been polled in months and where the highest-ranked poll is in danger of dropping below the 0.05 weighting threshold and entirely out of our averages. The other states in this group are Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Maryland, North Dakota, South Dakota and Vermont. Rhode Island would have been too, but is getting new numbers today.

From among this group, the most annoying omission is North Dakota, which Obama is visiting today and may actually hope to compete in. For good measure, it's probably also worth polling South Dakota. As to the rest of these states -- it's fairly obvious in which direction they're going to go, although Maryland is very bourgie and would therefore be helpful for calibrating demographics, and it's surprising that Illinois, which has the fifth-largest population in the country, has been polled so little when California and New York have been polled so much.

For the time being, however, what we're going to do is establish a requirement that the highest-rated poll in each state will be assigned a minimum weight of 0.25, with any other polls in that state calibrated to that number. This is admittedly a little ad-hoc, but all it's doing is affecting the extent to which we weight the polling as opposed to the regression, which was an ad-hoc decision to begin with. It doesn't feel right to completely ignore polling that has taken place in a state when that polling is the best thing we have, even if that polling is a little (or a lot) out of date.

This precedent will also be applied to our Senate polling numbers, where it is somewhat more consequential, as some Senate races are polled quite rarely.

78 comments

Anonymous said...

New poll
Rassmussen 7/3

Montana: Obama +5

Anonymous said...

New Rasmussen poll in Montana.
Obama + 5

HAHAHA...It's impossible for Obama win in Montana?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/montana/election_2008_montana_presidential_election2

Anonymous said...

TYPO: North Dakota is in your list of states with polling infrequency similar to North Dakota.

Anonymous said...

I looked the exit poll from Nevada in 2004.

Kerry lost by only 21.000 vote.

For me, it's impossible for Obama lose in Nevada with the big turnout.

Las Vegas and Clark County will be big this year.

http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/NV/P/00/

http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/NV/P/00/epolls.0.html

Anonymous said...

I looked the exit poll from Nevada in 2004.

Kerry lost by only 21.000 vote.

For me, it's impossible for Obama lose in Nevada with the big turnout.

Las Vegas and Clark County will be big this year.

http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/NV/P/00/

http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/NV/P/00/epolls.0.html

Anonymous said...

Man, I really really like the 50-state strategy. Not only for this year, but for all races moving forward. Sometimes, people vote a certain way out of habit and because the other party ignored them.

Adam said...

Well - we'll see what happens after Labor Day and after the mud has been thrown around from both sides. Obama isn't going to win Montana and lose Florida and Nevada as polling from the past week or two would indicate.

I'd take that MT poll with a truckload of salt - just as I suggested people on my side should have done when that poll of NJ showed McCain ahead a few months ago.

Anonymous said...

I totaly agree with you adam, like everyone say's the poll's dont matter now, so why do we alway's get so excited when we see a poll we like? never really get it, for states like montana how dem's love thoses and republican's hate them, but then take for instence the ga poll's all the democrats were going nut's, with obama behind 1, then the two new polls came out within the last few day's and they are talking about there being to many republicans or w/e polled. so i totaly agree with you like nj is a state that alway's show's it closer before the election then the dem's alway's vote dem, i think nc, and mt could turn into that too just depends on who the candidate is. but yes i would take this with a small grain of salt.

James King said...

To be fair, Clinton did get Montana in 1992 - it's not impossible, certainly no less likely than North Dakota.

James King said...

Although after looking at the numbers, Clinton only won with the help of a considerable Perot vote.

Stephen said...

Adam--

While I agree it's too early for those of us on Obama's side to get excited about Montana, I don't think it's out of the question for Obama to win Montana while losing Florida. Southern conservatives and Western conservatives are different creatures, and Obama's been doing pretty well with the Westerners.

Anonymous said...

creatures? what on earth is that suppose to mean?.

SarahLawrenceScott said...

Even if the Montana poll is a fluke, it serves a very important purpose for the Obama campaign--it makes McCain give serious consideration to devoting resources there and probably in the Dakotas as well.

By the way, what's "bourgie"?

Higglytown said...

The Rasmussen Hacks are at it again, sometimes they are on point, sometimes they mess it up.

Here the first question was a negative about George Bush's popularity, before asking the McCain/Obama question.

Then on the issues such as offshore drilling McCain gets the support. I wonder if the McCain Obama question were asked after the other questions if we would get the same result. As Nate has said question order and context do matter. Also the 500 voters with a +- of 4.5% at 95% accuracy is hardly great evidence.

Anonymous said...

+4 in North Dakota? +5 in Montana? What, was there some mass migration down from Canada in the last few years?

Adam said...

Stephen,

I agree. Southerners are more so-con and westerners have a more libertarian streak. But I think it's debateable just how "southern" FL is anymore considering all the transplant Northeasterners that are quickly moving there.

So while Obama is doing well now with westerners and McCain is doing well in FL, I think the ad wars will change that.

Dems will tag McCain as dangerous on Social Security. That will get Floridians' attention and make it close. And I suspect that NRA will remind Montanans that Obama signed a paper saying he supports banning hand guns.

I don't know who is going to win in November. I objectively give Obama a slight edge now - but I think that the war is going to be waged along similar battle zones when push comes to shove.

Isabel Lugo said...

Also, DC already has no polls above the threshold.

Osaka said...

I think maybe there are some special rules about polling in DC. I'm not positive. It's weird living in Japan and seeing everything here - in Japan, you can't do polling (aside from generic party preferences) at all!

Steve said...

In Illinois we're too busy watching our two first place teams to bother with polling right now.

goethean said...

But I think it's debateable just how "southern" FL is anymore considering all the transplant Northeasterners that are quickly moving there.

...and Midwesterners on the Gulf side.

Anonymous said...

Nate.

What does this mean?

"Maryland is very bourgie"

I live in Maryland. It is kind of the opposite of PA, with the conservative areas to the east and west and the liberal area down through the middle. It is reliable Dem, has a fairly high proportion of African-Americans and a growing Latino population. How does this relate to your statement?

Ben said...

SarahLawrenceScott: "By the way, what's 'bourgie'?"

Bourgeois; middle class, usually upper-middle class. Maryland has the highest per capita income in the country (as of 2007). Other bourgeois states would be New Jersey and Connecticut.

Anonymous said...

Maryland is the greatest state in the union, lived there for over 20 years, and I loved it