7.26.2008

The Sleeper Issue of 2008: Beer

I got dinner and drinks yesterday with a couple of friends from St. Louis, and inquired whether they had heard about the takeover of Anheuser-Busch by Belgian beer conglomerate InBev. I was met with a couple of incredulous stares. Asking a St. Louisan about whether they've heard about the Anheuser-Busch takeover is tantamount to asking them they've ever seen Albert Pujols hit a fastball. This is very big news in St. Louis and other parts of Missouri.

The objections aren't just a matter of patriotic pride over Anheuser-Busch's flagship Budweiser brand, which might be the most recognizably American brand in the world. Rather, the issue is that it is a near-certainty that InBev will cut jobs. If InBev is smart, it will delay or limit the number of job cuts in St. Louis itself. But consolidation and cost-savings are how money is made in mergers between mature companies, and that means a certain number of 'redundant' positions are going to be eliminated. Indeed, Anheuser-Busch had already announced job cuts of 10-15 percent in June in an effort to trim its fat and make itself a less meaty target for InBev, whose takeover bid it initially considered hostile.

Ordinarily, it would be hard to tie the takeover to the political campaign. Like it or not, this is capitalism at work, and it is not clear that the merger had anything to do with the recession. Alcohol stocks are notoriously recession-proof, and BUD had remained basically flat over the past two years before ticking upward on rumors of the InBev bid, which paid its shareholders a substantial premium.

However, Cindy McCain is the chairwoman of Phoenix-based beer distributor Hensley & Co, which has substantial holdings in Anheuser-Busch. The Wall Street Journal reports that Hensley & Co stands to make around $1 million on the transaction.

This is still an issue involving a candidate's wife, rather than the candidate himself, and so the Obama campaign might need to handle it fairly delicately; it might be territory better suited for a 527 group, for instance. The other issue is that it is not immediately clear what policies might have been implemented to prevent the transaction, as Obama himself said in a trip to St. Louis earlier this month.

There is, however, one potential remedy. The deal arguably runs afoul of antitrust laws, as it increases the amount of consolidation in the domestic macrobrew industry, which SmartMoney.com describes as "basically an oligopoly of Anheuser, SABMiller and Molson Coors. Though InBev does not own any domestic labels, it does owns three of the ten best-selling brands of imported beers: Heineken, Beck's and Amstel Light.

Obama, therefore, could pressure the Federal Trade Commission on the matter, or request oversight hearings from the U.S. Senate Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition and Consumer Rights.

The ranking member of the Antitrust Committee is Wisconsin Senator Herb Kohl; Russ Feingold is also one of its 11 members. The Wisconsin Senators can speak to the the likely job cuts in Milwaukee brought about by the recent Miller-Coors merger, which bypassed both Milwaukee and Denver to place its new headquarters in Chicago. One can imagine Obama and Feingold holding a "Save our Jobs" rally outside Anheuser-Busch headquarters in St. Louis, with Feingold promising to hold hearings on the InBev merger and Obama pledging to appoint FTC commissioners who will aggressively defend American interests. John McCain, because of his wife's interests in the transaction, would be in no position to rebut their proposals.

That's meat-and-potatoes politics at its best, and nothing goes better with meat and potatoes than a little beer.

157 comments

Rhode Island X said...

I'm not sure if anyone will see it as any more than a coincidence. I can't see it being held against McCain.

I suppose it could find a way into an "elitist" narrative, but that hasn't been sticking to McCain as one might expect. (Right?)

DCM said...

I think it would be GREAT if Obama would become a crusading populist on bubba issues like jobs & monopolies & especially oil & healthcare + social security for that matter.

Hillary, yes. Barack, not so much probably...

Maybe his VP pick will be the front man/woman for these issues. One can always hope !

Englishbeerdrinker said...

I know I should be looking at this more cerebrally, but right now I just feel a great surge of hope that InBev will take over and announce that they will immediately stop making that crime upon humanity known as Budweiser.

Seriously, patriotic pride in Budweiser? I understand that whole Prohibition thing may have skewed American perceptions of what a good beer is, but Budweiser makes British lager seem good, and if you've ever tasted that piss we call Carling, you'll see what I'm getting at.

Still, my Missourian friend will be pleased he no longer has to feel guilty about his home state's beer.

Anonymous said...

Better to let the deal go through and remind every Missourian just who profited from the deal.

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Mark said...

...nothing goes better with meat and potatoes than a little beer.
That is just obviously false. It is intuitively obvious to the casual observer that a lot of beer goes better with meat and potatoes than does a little beer.

JGabriel said...

Anon@6:59Pm: Better to let the deal go through and remind every Missourian just who profited from the deal.

Then compare the losses and gains: (Whatever number) millions of dollars lost in St. Louis vs. 1 million profit for the McCains.

Followed by a tagline like: "The McCains will send tens of millions of dollars in American jobs just to make 1 million for themselves."

Of course, it's probably better if the purchase doesn't go through, but if it does, the contrasts between who loses and who profits should definitely be promoted.

.

Gerthein said...

"which might be the most recognizably American brand in the world."
Not as long as McDonald's, Disney, Ford etc. are around. You'd be surprised at how many Europeans actually have never heard of Budweiser.

Juris said...

Methinks Cola Cola beats them all.

Gerthein said...

Knew I was missing an obvious one. :)

Juris said...

Doh! Coca Cola.

Anonymous said...

It's not clear from context, but I understood Nate to be saying that Budweiser is "the most recognizably American brand [of beer] in the world." Is that true, or is there some other American beer as widely known (as widely disparaged?) as Bud?

John Peterson said...

If by "sleeper issue" you mean "puts us to sleep," then I agree totally.

Englishbeerdrinker, you can do A LOT worse than regular Budweiser for a macrolager. Of course, our California, Colorado and Oregon microbrews put your English beer to shame.

Hellmut said...

Yes, Coca Cola is to America what beer is to Belgium. Globally, Budweiser is just an aftertought.

Although in Missouri, it might be the other way around. Missouri is a battle state and the world is not.

It would be unwise, though, for Obama to soil himself with petty attacks. If the Obama campaign plays the personal enrichment card at all, it should be played by surrogates.

May be, such an attack can be useful in the context of depicting McCain as out of touch with the economic challenges of ordinary Americans.

It is more important, however, that Obama begins to focus on the economy himself. In that respect his triumphant tour of orient and occident has been a distraction.

Anonymous said...

It's always funny to hear the International Law crowd flipping out over a foreign company doing business in America. What's the matter? I thought we were supposed to all be good Citizens of the World. Or are we only supposed to like Germans when they're cheering for the Lightworker?

I'm a proud supporter of Corporations Without Borders.

Anonymous said...

This should tie in nicely with McCain's "I will veto ever beer" blooper . . .
( http: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=xob2HyCbj50 )

Anonymous said...

What's with the scare quotes around 'redundant'? Aren't workers pretty redundant if there jobs can be eliminated without affecting production and such?

Also, the last thing I want to see is Obama turning more protectionist. I'm general in support of a lot of liberal attitudes about helping the economically depressed. -- progress tax brackets, minimum wages, union rights, social security, lowering costs of higher education, etc.. But protectionism is the worst -- it discourages economic activity, makes things less efficient, and it helps people in a very nonuniform and not particularly need based way.

The Dude Abides said...

InBev is a Belgian company. On the day InBev's takeover of Anheuser Busch was approved, McCain was in Missouri to celebrate and raise money with the former US Ambassador to...BELGIUM.
http://www.firedupmissouri.com/mccain_belgian_inbev_brauer

I can't believe Obama's campaign isn't making a big issue of this in Missouri TV ads.

The Dude Abides said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Hey Anonymi, Just Pick A Name! said...

I am certain Nate meant that Budweiser was the most recognizable brand of _beer_, not in general.

There is some heavy symbolism, if nothing else, for Budweiser to be bought out and Miller to be leaving its HQ in Milwaukee at the same time -- both companies are icons for their respective towns.

The Dude Abides said...

Anonymous, of course protectionist barriers should be lowered if we can ensure fairness. The problem here is that foreign companies are taking advantage of our weak currency to acquire US companies and eliminate American jobs. This is a direct result of the W peso's huge fall against the euro. This can be an effective political issue in some swing states if the Obama campaign is adept enough to take advantage. The USA should be the country that's strong enough to do the acquiring, not the other way around.

Anonymous said...

"Fairness" is just a codeword for left wing socialism.

Brad said...

Youy could also tie in Bush's weak dollar policy that allowed InBev to come in and make the buy - we did this to ourselves - intentioanlly. The weak dollar policy also accounts for 30-40% of the increased price of oil.

Kennyboy said...

Budweiser, Millers, Coors; the canned coffees of beer. Take 'em all away...please.

Matt said...

And retard is just a code word for conservative

dukewilco said...

Regarding the imported beers, both Heineken and Amstel light are produced by the Heineken company. Heineken is not part of Inbev, but one of it's main competitors.

SNED said...

I actually am currently living in St. Louis, and the Anheuser Busch takeover is a big deal. Civic pride is much bigger in St Louis than in either place where I have lived (Miami Florida, and Tempe, Arizona). And AB means more than you would think here. I have been thinking that this could certainly be a very big campaign issue at least here locally. If it comes to pass that jobs need to be cut, and the McCain’s have profited form this, it could certainly be an issue for a 527 to capitalize on. I think that an official Obama ad going after Cindy is a bad idea, but this can be something to move the needle in a very close state.

Modeler said...

This site looks more like an unmoderated Daily Kos diary every day. What happened to the quantitative analysis?

One of the appealing things about Obama is that this is exactly the sort of insincere political game he says he'd like to avoid. (Something tells me Obama isn't really upset about all of those new jobs in Chicago.) What next, embrace a gas tax holiday?

SNED said...

"One of the appealing things about Obama is that this is exactly the sort of insincere political game he says he'd like to avoid. (Something tells me Obama isn't really upset about all of those new jobs in Chicago.) What next, embrace a gas tax holiday?"
Your comment is exactly what you are complaining only from a right wing perspective.

Anonymous said...

When Barack got the post primary bump in June it took about 2 weeks for the state polls to catch up to the trackers. If this "Oversees" bounce lasts then we can expect to see the state polls reflect the rise in the next couple weeks.

Modeler said...

Sned,

Fair enough -- my comment certainly isn't quantitative. My point was targeted at Nate, who sets the tone for the site. If he wanted to start quantitative discussions, I'd love it. But if he wants to stick to water-cooler analysis, I might chime in as well.

I'm not sure where right or left come into play.

1) I do think Obama is appealing because he tries to avoid these ridiculous games.

2) I do think it would be insincere of him to make a political issue out of this, especially if it involved implicit criticism of moving the headquarters to Chicago.

3) I do think this is comparable to the insincerity of Clinton embracing a gas tax holiday.

So am I right or left?

Anonymous said...

This site is very pro Obama, does anyone else find that Chris Matthews acts like an adolescent? That guy irritates me. When Russert died Chris would go on and on about how Russert was one step ahead of him. Like no shit, Russert was one of the best ever and you are average at best. People must like his personality because his political acumen is horse-shit.

Anonymous said...

Obama won't go near this, it will only open the gates to the republicans attacking Michelle. Not to mention Obama seems to be in an attack free mode the last month. I'd like to see some more attacks, but this Budweiser thing is childish.

Abqbob said...

Just a test. Post disappeared.

JGabriel said...

Anon@8:33pm: If this "Oversees" bounce lasts then we can expect to see the state polls reflect the rise in the next couple weeks.

Thank you. I've been saying this for about a week now.

Anyway, Obama is finally seeing a small lift in the tracking polls (could be noise, could be the lagging effect of the Obama foreign policy tour), as predicted, and if it's the result of Obama's tour then we should see those gains increase and consolidate over the next 1-2 weeks - barring the unlikely event of any major gaffes or scandals.

.

Leo said...

Another St. Louisian here. If Obama decides to go this route (and I am not sure that he should) he should pair the AB issue with an attack on McCain's role in the Boeing/Airbus tanker contracting fiasco. The issues play almost identically here, although the AB takeover operates on a more emotional level (AB is more important to the St. Louis identity than Boeing).

However, I would be wary of Obama taking too populist/protectionist a stand just as a play at Missouri. This is a tough state for Obama, and if he wins it he will almost certainly have the election put away. It would be very risky to tempt the ire of the great free-trade consensus simply for a state that is unlikely to be decisive.

Anonymous said...

Obama doesen't need to find weak lines of attack like the Budweiser one. He should stick to economic meat and potatoes like this:

"McCain thinks we are in a mental recession. Why would he help you if he believes its all in your head. Losing your job with the economic downturn, your house with the foreclosure crisis, and your car with these high gas prices is all in your head. Stop your whining!"
or
"Don't worry folks, Mccain is going to give tax breaks to the multi-nationals, and in 40-50 years when China and Indiana have matured industrially, it may be more feasible for them to bring those jobs back here. Your grand children will be fine."

Anonymous said...

Nate,

I love the site, but this post was very disappointing. As opposed to meat and potatoes politics, I would consider the move you recommend politics at its worst, especially when there are so many substantive issues on which to challenge McCain.

Anonymous said...

The Dude Abides:

>> The USA should be the country that's strong enough to do the acquiring, not the other way around.

Heaven forfend that anybody outside of the USA be successful.

I can't believe liberals have spend years lecturing us about world opinion and the virtues of Europe, and then turn around and post something like this.

Matt said...

I have heard some talk from the pundits like Chris Matthews that Obama can't seem to crack 50%. I know McCain hasen't cracked 45% but is it possible that Obama has a 48-49% ceiling? Whether it be race or perceived inexperience? I would like to hear other opinions.

Anonymous said...

Good point!

E-mail it to the Obama team yet?

I hope Obama is not too high-minded for something like this. In case you haven't seen it, he brushed it off as ok if it's to be a one-off event in his interview with Brian Williams.

Obama gets on my nerves when he is so freaking high-minded.

Matt said...

Being high minded is great in theory, but in practice against a Karl rove trained disciple(Steve Shmidt), high mindedness gets chewed up and spit out.

Obama lost the 5 point lead he had in June to a consistent republican media attack message. As someone who is addicted to cable news and who's job allows the freedom to watch it all day, I see the benefits of a media spin Machine.

The McCain camp had Obama on the defensive the entire last 3 weeks before the overseas trip through tactical consistent media spin. we saw the Clinton's do it in the primary. Talking Points Memo has a great clip of their latest co-ordinated media attack here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFclFVnq2LU&feature=user

This attack has not stuck yet like the others.

Mark said...

The anti-trust case for this would be fairly weak. Contrary to your post, InBev in fact only owns a single one of the top 10 imported beer brands, Beck's. Heineken and Amstel are products of the Heineken International, which is one of InBev's competitors; the rest of the top 10 are Mexican, Canadian, Australian, or Irish, none owned by InBev. InBev's other brands, like Stella Artois and Leffe, have much lower U.S. market share.

Anonymous said...

Yawn. There are still numerous brands of beer one can buy that are not controlled by the big three. I believe there is also a Jesse Jackson conection to Bud (beer nuts anyone?)--his sons also hold a beer distributorship. Why don't you rant about that?

Anonymous said...

So Budweiser is Belgian just like Coors is Canadian and Miller South African. Who cares.

Anonymous said...

This is part of a disturbing trend. This is part of McCain's plan to establish himself as the anti-beer candidate. First he makes his pledge to veto every beer. Now his wife is selling off her assets in AB. To Belgians?!?

I think Senator McCain wants to bring back prohibition - the good, old days he remembers so fondly.

Senator McCain, I say to you sir, you can take away my beer when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.

jack said...

The Dude Abides:

The problem here is that foreign companies are taking advantage of our weak currency to acquire US companies

This is not an unfair situation. Our currency is weak because of inflationary policies, balance of payments, etc. It is no different than taking a trip to Rome when the Dollar was strong and the Euro was weak. Taking advantage of a situation when the circumstances warrant it is not unfair. It simply is what it is. Don't confuse being in a bad situation (as we are) with being in an unfair situation.

DCM said...

Appears that the EV Distribution shifted back a bit toward the left today as far as a center of gravity & peaks.

Not sure what the simulations picked up on today that would account for these particular results...

EV total vote projection for Obama went up a slight tick [again] with win prediction & holding fairly stable.

After the Q polls this week the EV Distribution shifted quite a bit down & peaks moved left.

Polling released in the last few days have primarily been good [or at least not bad] for Obama.

So, what data impacted the sim runs to cause today's changes, especially to account for the peak cluster around 240 w/o impacting the other projection #'s ?

Anonymous said...

Obama is a secret Jew.

Proof:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/3a4ba638-c3b7-47a6-bd7d-ed366a6b4f42.rp350x350.jpg

Anonymous said...

We cannot let Barack Schlomo Obama win this election. His Jewish values are against the values of America.

Anonymous said...

While it might be wise to make this a political issue, I don't think it would accomplish anything. I don't believe the Obama is that big of a populist.

Anonymous said...

With about 100 days left till the general election, there' s no time for Obama to make this an issue - he's got bigger things on his plate. And believe it or not a $1 million windfall for Cindy McCain is not a big number and was not ill gotten on her part.

Anonymous said...

I'm confused. Did she vote to approve the deal or something? Or does she just benefit from the deal because of her holdings? If it's the former then it's a great issue, if it's the latter then it seems desperate and irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

The liberals want to whine to Papa Government about capitalist competition. What else is new?

WAHH WAHH! Come help me Papa Government I lost my job! I can't survive on my own! WAAAAAAAAH!

Thats the typical Euro Socialist liberal member of the Democrat Party.

DCM said...

PLEASE refrain from feeding the trolls...

Anonymous said...

Dukewilco is right- you have a factual error- Inbev does not own Heineken / Amstel.

Heineken is a huge global brewer with a great US brand. 2-3% market share. Beer may be recession proof, but "macro" consumption has been flat. The A-B product roll-outs were weak. The reality is that A-B was poised for internally-driven cost pressures- this infusion of capital and brand association makes a bad situation not quite as bad. Put that in a sound bite. Sigh.

Anonymous said...

The real sleeper issue is that John McCain was at least partially responsible for the 132 deaths of sailors aboard the U.S.S. Forrestal.
Who knows how many intentional murders he committed against non-combatants in Vietnam by napalming them laced with white phosphorus?

KRANKY

SNED said...

Modeler,

I apologize, I misread your comment!

Sanjay said...

The merger is not because of the recession but the timing has a lot to do with the current weakness of the dollar. Ultimately however, this is a good move for Anheiser, there business plan has been horrible as the market trend has been shifting to smaller, local breweries.

Elton said...

I love the site, but this post was very disappointing. As opposed to meat and potatoes politics, I would consider the move you recommend politics at its worst, especially when there are so many substantive issues on which to challenge McCain.

I agree. And not only are there better issues to tackle, but if Obama goes for more protectionist/populist rhetoric (as he did in the Ohio primary, insincerely) he may gain in some quarters, but he'll lose free-market Democrats like myself.

The Dude Abides said...

So, you brave anonymous posters who disagreed with my statement that the US companies should be the ones doing the acquiring, you do understand that it was within the context of a political strategy for winning Missouri's electoral votes, right? I find it hard to believe that airing political ads about McCain having a celebratory dinner with the former US Ambassador to Belgium on the same day that a Belgian company acquires A-B would be a losing strategy.

Whatever the merits of the larger issue of free, unfettered trade, IMO going after McCain in Missouri about the A-B issue is a winning strategy.

Anonymous said...

Matt@8:56pm: I have heard some talk from the pundits like Chris Matthews that Obama can't seem to crack 50%. I know McCain hasen't cracked 45% but is it possible that Obama has a 48-49% ceiling?

Possible? Sure. Likely? Not so much.

In fact, given the statistics, demographics, the historical trends, and most importantly, the historical trends with respect to the state of the economy, the most likely scenario is that McCain can't, and won't, break 45%. Ever.

Matt@9:15pm: Obama lost the 5 point lead he had in June...

... And has since regained it.

Jeebus Criminy, man, buck up. You're falling for Republican spin and Republican frames. Stop staring into the abyss of Republican spin and look at reality:

Obama is leading in just about every national poll since late May or early June. At his worst he had a 2% lead. Most of the time it was 3%-7%, averaging out to a 5% lead, nationally.

In electoral votes, Obama holds a lead in states totalling 293 EV, well over the 270 EV threshold, with another 21 EV in pure toss-up territory (VA, NV, and MT). And maybe another 80-100 EV leaning McCain. but within reach. Assume he gets 20-50 of them by the time the election rolls around.

Obama holds a polling lead exceeding either Gore's or Kerry's at this point in time in the race. About as strong or stronger than Clinton's in '92 and '96.

Stop worrying and stop fretting about whether McCain can win. Under the current metrics, absent a major gaffe or scandal in the Obama camp, he can't.

And start worrying about making the case to your friends and neighbors as to why Obama is a better choice than McCain for the presidency.

It shouldn't be hard, given the last 7.5 years of Republican rule; the bar has been set pretty low.

Ignore the trolls and the Republican spin. Obama's nearly got this campaign locked up already, and will completely lock it down sometime after conventions, if not sooner.

Hell, at this point, most people will just look at the loose change in their wallets or the savings in their bank accounts and vote Democratic. The Republicans are screwed, fucked, ravaged, and torn, mostly due to their own self-inflicted predations. Obama is most likely to win, under the circumstances, and, as the saying goes, only a live boy or dead girl can change that scenario.

.

JGabriel said...

Last post by me, JGabriel.

I accidentally hit submit before entering my user id.

.

JGabriel said...

Anon@10:01pm: Obama is a secret Jew.

Well, there goes the Republican argument that he's anti-Israel.

And there goes the Florida vote. Obama as a Secret Jew wins Florida handily.

Thanks, Anon@10:01pm!

.

JGabriel said...

Anon@10:44pm: ...believe it or not a $1 million windfall for Cindy McCain is not a big number and was not ill gotten on her part.

Hardly matters.

When Ann Richardson first ran for governor in TX, her opponent was an oil man who paid no taxes that year. Ann wasn't about to make an issue of it, because the oil industry was particularly bad that year, and hardly any oil men had income ot declare for taxation.

But her campaign insisted on it. And, it turned out, people who weren't rich oil men - i.e., most of the Texas population - were pretty pissed about having to pay income taxes while the rich oil men went scott free.

So. Middle class workers lose their jobs while Cindy McCain makes $1 million - not much to her, but a lot to most of the workers losing their jobs, and the friends and family to whom they complain about it - that's a big deal to the St. Louis newly unemployed.

Have fun!

.

JGabriel said...

Anon@11:26pm: WAHH WAHH! Come help me Papa Government I lost my job! I can't survive on my own! WAAAAAAAAH!

Yep. Keep up that attitude.

Really, you're completely right, and as a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, I'm absolutely taking advantage of the weak, and the poor, and the middle-class, and, y'know, anyone else who isn't rich by promising to work for them instead of the wealthy.

Because, of course, the middle-class doesn't know that the system works best for them when it works best for the well-off. And liberals - ooh, forgive me, I meant LIE-berals - take advantage of them by exploiting that ignorance.

I mean, gosh, everyone knows that the middle class does best when you raise their taxes and lower taxes for those making over 250k per year, like the Republicans and McCain want to do.

It just makes sense, right? More money for the rich and less for me is just the way it's supposed to be. It's the natural order.


Yadda yadda Ayn Rand yadda.

Go fuck yourself, Anon@11:26pm. You're just another Cheetos(tm)-eating wingnut on SS disability, the kind who tells everyone he's cheating on Social Security because he's too chickenshit to admit he's schizophrenic and needs the help, and projects his fear, paranoia, and weakness on everyone else, i.e., the perfect metaphor for the Republican party.

.

JGabriel said...

Sanjay: The merger is not because of the recession but the timing has a lot to do with the current weakness of the dollar.

Wow. Just, y'know, marvelling at the cluelessness...

Or, less snarkily:

Sanjay, do you think you could explain to us how the weakness of the dollar has absolutely nothing at all to do with our other economic crises?

Because, if not, your statement separating the recession (or near recession) from the weakness of the dollar is complete gibberish.

.

Gris said...

@Nate

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I'm repeating it as it is still in the post.

Heineken (and Amstel which is one of its brands) are NOT InBev, but is a competitor of InBev!

Trust me on this, I'm a dutch guy, so surely I know that our national brand is still independent :-)

By the way, you all know the similarity between
Budweiser and making love in a canoe?


It's both fucking close to water.


In that regard, don't be too sad that it's Belgian now.

Roone said...

Stella probably wants to brew Stella in the US to minimize shipping costs/quality risks.

Stella is wildly popular in the bar that I work at. It is 3rd in sales behind Guinness and local favorite Fireman 4.

That and Bud makes a shitton of sales. That and the distribution domination.

Anonymous said...

Just a stupid off-topic question:
Why are Americans proud of a beer, that is named after a Czech town?

Brad said...

I live in st. louis - the theory is that Busch stole the name because he loved the beer from that town, he denied, but...

Bud beer is crap, with great marketing. The problem is, InBev is not known for great marketing, or great levels of spending (they are cost cutters) and they will lose buyers because alot of these Bud drinkers are the guys still buying american cars. A foreign beer will not sit well. Sam Adamas need to come up with a tasteless American ale, they could steal share.

Brad said...

Today's Rasmussen tracking number:

"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows Barack Obama attracts 46% of the vote while John McCain earns 41%. When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 49% and McCain 44%. "

Pretty darn good, particularly conidering I think their methodology (pure compuer) understates Obama's strength significantly.

Cugel said...

"guys still buying american cars. A foreign beer will not sit well. Sam Adamas need to come up with a tasteless American ale, they could steal share."

You know I never thought of it that way! I never drink that pig-swill unless I have to, preferring instead really good micro-brew beers like Fat Tire or imports.

But for millions of Americans the way Beer "SHOULD" taste is flat and bland and slightly metalic and they won't have actually good beer even if they can get it.

This really is about enforcing U.S. anti-trust laws and forcing divestiture of industries that have been allowed to form monopoly control. That diversification creates more jobs.

Then re-writing labor and environmental standards into all trade agreements will help protect future job loss.

As for the millions of jobs already shipped overseas, we need to revise the tax code to eliminate subsidies for businesses that produce overseas rather than here in the U.S.

People talk about "Protectionism" as if it means tarrifs. There are lots of things we can do other than raising tarrif walls that invites retaliation.

These ideas that would help American workers have been off the table until now because Right-wingers hate regulating business. Now they're back ON the table and maybe we can make some progress to stop the destruction of the American middle-class dream of decent paying jobs, decent schools and affordable health-care.

Every other advanced industrial country has managed to do this, only the U.S. lags behind. But, to the friggin' wing-nuts we can't copy the "socialists" cause that would be bad!

Even if by every measure they are ahead of us in all areas of social welfare, we can't be like the French or Germans!

Chant after me: "USA! USA! USA!"

Brad said...

Great point Cugel, the repubs have bankrupted us with the devalued dollar, and hastened manufacturers moves overseas through other stupid policy decisions. We need to reverse some of them!

I live outside St. Louis on a farm (for sale, cheap, help me escape a red state!) and neighbors literally bring me microbrews they recieve as gifts because all they drink is Bud Light!!!!

GO OBAMA!!!!!!

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Brad said...

Team Obama, spam is not good.

That said, I have maxed out anyway and have even given to the DCCC.

EnzoValenzetti said...

Americans should just be happy that this merger will allow InBev to distribute delicious Belgian beers at affordable prices in the U.S.

We Europeans should be complaining. InBev is now probably gonna start throwing Budweiser at us.

Brad said...

"Americans should just be happy that this merger will allow InBev to distribute delicious Belgian beers at affordable prices in the U.S. "

Most Americans would not know good beer if they tasted it, they don't like the taste of hops! They find it "perfumed". I sure do, I loves Bell's as they are not afraid of flavor, but...that is not most Americans. They like rhe rice based concontion that is Bud is not beer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budweiser_(Anheuser-Busch)

Anonymous said...

Again, liberals hating America.

Brad said...

Hating America? Because we drink expensive micro-brews and support small business?

Conservative spin that ignores basic facts, yeet again...

moondancer said...

I grew up in St Louis, have a brother in law that works at AB, my great uncle was an executive there. It's not the job loss alone, it's the job quality that's threatened. What happens every time the "Gordon Geckos" get involved? Renegotiate the labor package, etc..

Brad said...

You are correct moondancer - kiss the pension goodbye. Kiss the gret healthcare to the curb. Do twice the amount of work you do, with half the support.

vtslayer said...

Reports have already leaked about big changes at Anheuser-Busch: Apparently following the InBev takeover the company will begin brewing beer.

Brad said...

vtslayer - miracle do not happen. That said, they had 52% of beer sales a couple years back...

Anonymous said...

is it possible that Obama has a 48-49% ceiling? ... I would like to hear other opinions.

A 49% share that is 5 points better than your opponent is only a problem in Chris Matthews' world if your a Democrat. If you're a Republican it's considered a landslide.

Brad said...

Any win is a win. I do not get the 50% obsession. Our current pres won without winning the popular vote for god's sake!

eve said...

One of our trolls posted an email on another thread (I'm not going to hunt for it) from a soldier regarding Obama's trip. The soldier has recanted the email.

Army Times sent an e-mail to Porter, a Utah Army National Guard member assigned to the 142nd Military Intelligence Battalion, asking if he could verify that he wrote the controversial e-mail and requesting an interview.

Porter’s reply declined the interview request, but said:

“I am writing this to ask that you delete my e-mail and not forward it, after checking my sources some of the information that was put out in my e-mail was wrong. This e-mail was meant only for my family. Please respect my wishes and delete the e-mail and if there are any blogs you have my e-mail portrayed on I would ask if you would take it down too.”

Shadow said...

And yet another big drop in the bucket towards turning the bellweather blue.

Paging Claire McCaskill for VP...

BlueDakota said...

Anyone else here worried about Obama's severe stuttering problem? It makes him look like he's incompetent. I hope he can fix it before the debates.

Just look at him on Youtube.com when you type in "Obama Stuttering".

It's horrible.

Anonymous said...

Bush won with 52% of the vote in 2004.

No Democrat candidate has gotten 50% since 1976, and no Democrat landslide since 1964.

The Democrat Party doesn't get majorities.

Stop Socialism said...

Anonymous said...
Again, liberals hating America.

July 27, 2008 9:30 AM

Yeah, they do. They aren't happy till they tax everyone for everything they have. This way all power becomes centralized into an opressing government, a nanny state, that dictates your every move. Nobody will have any freedom from this giant bureaocracy that will mandate healthcare, confiscate guns and wealth, and monitor your every move. Why do the Dems want such a state? Because we are too stupid and helpless to GO DO ANYTHING OURSELVES. Excuse nation is what the dems, led by Obama, is building

Stop Socialism said...

Anonymous said...
Again, liberals hating America.

July 27, 2008 9:30 AM

Yeah, they do. They aren't happy till they tax everyone for everything they have. This way all power becomes centralized into an opressing government, a nanny state, that dictates your every move. Nobody will have any freedom from this giant bureaocracy that will mandate healthcare, confiscate guns and wealth, and monitor your every move. Why do the Dems want such a state? Because we are too stupid and helpless to GO DO ANYTHING OURSELVES. Excuse nation is what the dems, led by Obama, is building

StopSocialism said...

That's because the people reject what Democrats offer when a Dem comes out and says what it is they really believe. People would rather go and build a life for themselves, than have a government that takes from one's successes and gives to people who don't make the most out of America's opportunity.

Anonymous said...

Stop Socialism has it right.

The American people will never elect a far left socialist like obama.

stopsocialism said...

Obama stutters like that guy on Howard Stern because he is bereft of any meaninful idea. Take the prewritten speech away and he talks like Beavis and Butthead.

Brad said...

Did you just see Obama on CNN? He was great in a town hall setting. You guys will lie and spin about anything.

Brad said...

Obama is more cetrist than McCain, McCain is more conservative than Bush!

Jeffrey said...

This would be perfect for a local St Louis ad. I don't think anybody outside of Missouri cares but local issues in key swing states will be important.

While we are on this subject:

When is Obama going to make a trip to visit Yucca mountain?

young conservative said...

Obama tours the world like he's the Rolling Stones...

wait, aren't they both rockstars?

Brad said...

Young conservative-

What is wrong with a politician that people like? That people are atracted to? People were also attracted to Reagan and Clinton and both basically govverned from the center and were the best two in the last generation. Carter and Bush II were the worst.

Why is being popular a bad thing?

Anonymous said...

The Messia-UH is a stuttering idiot.

Uh....uh....uh...etc.

Terrible without his vapid rhetoric scripted for him.

Anonymous said...

The new Gallup tracking poll has Obama up by 9, his biggest lead ever.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109102/Gallup-Daily-Obama-49-McCain-40.aspx

Anonymous said...

Gallup Tracking: Obama lead by 9 (49-40)

Brad said...

"Terrible without his vapid rhetoric scripted for him."

Do you watch him speak? Do you watch McCain? How can you say that? Go watch CNN, the talk he just gave, town hall style. He speaks wonderfully. McCain, well, not so much.

jeremy said...

New Gallup 49 - 40 !!!! McCain is a sinking ship.

young conservative said...

Brad,

A fratboy is generally popular, Miley Cyrus can be popular. Popularity should not significantly alter one's vote for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. You might want to re-evaluate what is important to our country with a statement such as yours.

Anonymous said...

So what? Hes sinking in Rasmussen. Gallup is an outlier.

Americans don't elect Euro-style socialists.

Anonymous said...

BEER!

Is there anything it can't do?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"So what? Hes sinking in Rasmussen. Gallup is an outlier."

LOOOL stupid guy, Obama will win in a landslide. If you look mccain in every interview, he look very disastrous. Obama will win easy in the debates in September. Never the older warmonger will win.

Anonymous said...

Even when the liberal far left loons in the media are for him he cant break 50%.

Wait for the swiftboaters!

Anonymous said...

Funny you stupid neocons loved Gallup when they were tied. It's not an outlier if it's been trending for three days straight moron.

Anonymous said...

I remember when you liberals said Gore would win the debates.

oops!

synchronicity said...

Cindy is hardly a "major" shareholder. IIRc, her max holdings in BUD would be around $5million. The company has a market capitalizations of over 48 BILLION.

I don't think someone owning one one-hundredth of one percent has much influence, even if she is the wife of one of the two candidates for President.

Here's another amusing question: will InBev retain her company as a major distributor, or look at somebody else?

Anonymous said...

Rasmussen is trending down and Fox News only had him up +1.

Its a tied election. Deal with it liberal loons.

stopsocialism said...

Standing up to and not appeasing nutbag leaders of TRUE warmongering nations...is in itself NOT warmongering. Get it right, boy.

Anonymous said...

Ah the economy. The subject where republicans are supposed to be good. Too bad the US economy disagrees and tends to prosper under democrat rule and flutter under republican.

Anonymous said...

It can't be a trend if it only happened in poll on one day. Look at the RCP averages Fox is obviously the outlier dumbass.

Anonymous said...

I bet Gallup oversampled loony liberal socialist states like California and Illinois.

Maybe like VP Bore he can win the popular vote, but won't win in the heartland.

Anonymous said...

"Even when the liberal far left loons in the media are for him he cant break 50%."

Stupid guy, The older warmonger has never break 45% and obama has only 77-80% of Dem at this moment for him...loool

Your older man who has losing its bearings is toast.

Anonymous said...

obama cant win the white working class voters in the heartland.

He will lose badly there, and lose th election.

Anonymous said...

Gallup has been giving Obama the worst national numbers of any pollster. After a week of major Obama events for 3 straight days they show a significant improvement for Obama. How far up your ass do you actually have to stick your head to believe this is oversampling?

Anonymous said...

McCain's new campaign slogan:

"Dishonor before defeat"

I think McCain is personally honorable, but the GOP has to run a dishonorable campaign. Not only is McCain four more years of Bush, but also four more years of Karl "ignore subpoenas" Rove and Grover "ties to terrorism" Norquist.

Anonymous said...

Gallup Polls have been up and down since they have began tracking, Rasmussen has been most steady;

2004 election final polls

Rasmussen: Bush 50.2 Kerry 48.5

Gallup: Bush 49 Kerry 47

Actual: Bush 51 Kerry 48

Rasmussen was the most accurate

Realist said...

If McCain is the old one, then why has Obama been the one with far superior mastery of the word "UH"?

Obama stutters like he's DRUNK....or maybe SENILE.

Anonymous said...

What for the swiftboating liberals.

Your Messiah-UH is going to join Kerry, Gore, Dukakis, Mondale, and McGovern.

Realist said...

ONe more thing, comparing Bush to McCain is completely dishonest and weak. Anyone who does this is instantly discredited as a partisan fanatic.

Anonymous said...

I dont know why the loony left is so desparate to run against Bush again.

He already beat you twice!

Anonymous said...

You know, if he won by 5, he will win by a landslide.

Lool, the older guy is behind by 5 and 9 and they are happy.

Stupid guy...looool

Anonymous said...

Keep trashing seniors. They are the ones that actually vote especially in Florida!

Keep making ageist cracks. It will only strengthen McCain, esp. in Florida.

Anonymous said...

The swiftboaters will start their engines soon. Beware, liberals.

VOR said...

Ahhh, swiftboating. The proud heritage of intellectual dishonesty on the right. And adding to the political lexicon at that.

vtslayer said...

Wow. The trolls are really out today. Realist and the various Anonymouses: you do realize that this is a website about polling and election prediction, right? Your partisan attacks have no place here.

Realist said...

That goes for both sides vtslayer.


BTW, VT is a nice state. Stowe rules.

Anonymous said...

President Barack Hussein Obama

I love it :D

AndrewT said...

Karl Rove plugged 538 on Fox News this morning, which may help explain the trolling.

young conservative said...

how is "trolling" defined here? Partisan attacks or people who aren't drooling over the Obama mystique?

eve said...

For awhile the comments section was so good. Lots of interesting statistical analysis that was so different from any other site.
Now there are more attack posts than posts of people really wishing to have an intelligent discussion.

I think I will stick to reading Nate's posts and skip the comments.

moondancer said...

Realist

I beg to differ. Both in lack of character and policy, Bush/McCain are joined at the hip. Krusty is running away from his President like he had the plague, except for fund raising of course. Not until two weeks ago(when Krusty completed a half-dozen flip flops) they had the identical platform on every campaign issue. And with the 95pct voting record with the chimp why not? It's "weak" to think different.

Anonymous said...

Moondancer Bush isn't running. Get over it.

This election will be about obama and his toxic associations that showcase his poor judgement (Wright, Ayers, Rezko, Daley, Michelle, etc).

DCM said...

young conservative

all are welcomed on this site to comment but the request is to try to remain on point [or close to it] regarding electoral polling analysis & prediction.

partisanship is acceptable as long as it is disclosed & decorum is maintained.

as for your inquiry about "trolling', I refer you to Wikipedia:

Troll (Internet) -
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Internet troll)

"Do not feed the trolls" and its abbreviation DNFTT redirects here. For the Wikipedia essay, see "What is a troll?"

An Internet troll, or simply 'troll' in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion5

Etymology

The contemporary use of the term first appeared on Usenet groups in the late 1980s. It is thought to be a truncation of the phrase "trolling for suckers", itself derived from the fishing technique known as trolling.
-------------------------------
The word likely gained currency because of its apt second[ary] meaning, drawn from the trolls portrayed in Scandinavian folklore and children's tales; they are often ugly, obnoxious creatures bent on mischief and wickedness.
--------------------------------

PLEASE - DNFTT !!!

Realist said...

moondancer,

you're comments are totally discredited due to lack of ability to refrain from childish namecalling.

You are no better than "obamastutter"

At least his name was accurate.

Anonymous said...

Moondancer is typical of the childish lemmings who support obama and want to run the country.

Grow up, child, and move out of your parents basement. Maybe when you actually pay taxes you won't be so keen on raising them. But thats if you ever become successful, which I doubt you will be unless its in some Big Government job.

DCM said...

PLEASE people - you are feeding the trolls !!!

ignore Moondancer & obamastutter or you encourage them to linger & spew their bile.

also best to ignore the 'concern trolls' that pop in [like Pete Kent]

Kill 'em with fire! said...

Everyone keeps complaining about trolls and in the same breath breaks the golden rule: feeding them.

By naming them in your commentary, responding to their baited posts or simply cherry picking from their words you are doing yourself and this site a disservice. Internet trolls aren't pimples that need daily care to go away. They are malignant tumors that need to be cut lest they spread.

Many of you here want to treat them like pimples. I say enjoy your break outs.

DCM said...

Kill 'em with fire!

wow - instead of cutting them out could we maybe use radiation therapy ?

Let's NUKE 'em !
----------------

on a serious note, wonder if Nate will be running any simulations today or posting.

would like to see if the EV center of gravity will climb back over 300for Obama again for a more comfortable MOE.

Brad said...

The discourse here wasa at to high a level, and it showed Obama will win. The repubs just can't handle it.

Rove quoted 538 on Fox during his lying session, maybe one of these is him.

LOL!!!

GO OBAMA!!!!

aaron said...

Obama should stay out of this one for one simple reason: the antitrust case is laughable. You can't prevent a merger just because the resulting company would be "too big", especially not in the US. Given that there is already healthy competition within the beer industry in the US (and the acquisition might even reduce BUD's popularity), any attempt to stonewall the deal will come across as pandering.

Obama doesn't want to be seen as too much of a demagogue/protectionist. This is probably an issue on the same level as the baseball steroids scandal, and it would have been equally silly for Obama to become involved in that mess.

Shinobi said...

I'm from St. Louis. And the truth is this is more than an economic issue for that city, it is also a culturaly one. Brewery Tours, trips to Grant's Farm (owned by AB), Busch Stadium (Also I think owned by AB), the clydesdales at ball games all of these things are costs, that I'm sure InBev will not see as worthwhile. But they are a major part of St. Louis culture.

That might be another interesting angle on this issue. How do we preserve our local cultures in the face of globalization? And that affects a lot of people as well.

Anyway, I really hope this doesn't go through.

Mikey said...

A few years ago A-B bought the Latrobe Brewing Company, brewers of Rolling Rock.

Over strenuous local objection, A-B shuttered the brewery and moved the brewing of Rolling Rock to A-B's own brewery in Newark, cutting jobs in the process.

So at the risk of being insensitive I have to say that appeals to preserve the local culture of St. Louis strike me as hollow and even hypocritical.

I agree with some of the commenters above. As a free-market liberal the last thing I want to see is Obama getting involved in something like this.

David said...

Anti-trust? Give me a break. This is capitalism at work, as you expressly state, and it would be foolhardy for Obama to come out against this in any significant manner. The last thing he needs to do right now is alienate independent voters who favor free markets.

Mattie-T said...

InBev doesn't own Heineken or Amstel Light.

beersales314 said...

The writer lost all credibility with me early into the article when he wrote that Inbev owns Heineken & Amstel Light. Those brands would be owned by another one of the world's leading brewers--Heineken. Do your research next time!

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