7.04.2008

No Fireworks, But A Few Small Changes

This is the closest thing I've taken to a day off in quite some time, but briefly:

As I hinted yesterday, the amount of variance in each simulation run now differs from state to state. There are actually two different components to this. The first is how responsive a state is to national trends. We had already figured out a way how to estimate this. However, we now apply it specifically to each simulation. For example, let's say that New Hampshire polls move 120 percent as much as national polls. If in simulation #3,268, Obama's national trend has moved downward by 5 points, New Hampshire's polls will move 120 percent that much, or down 6 points. If in simulation #7,008, Obama's national trend has moved upward by 10 points, New Hampshire's polls will move up by12 points. It's as simple (or as complicated) as that.

Separately, however, there is also a question of how much variation there is within a given state's polling, period. You could have a state where the polls are relatively uncorrelated with national trends, but where the polls nevertheless seem to fluctuate wildly, marching somewhat to their own drummer. The way we account for this type of variance is to take the standard deviation across all polls conducted in a state after having stripped out the national trendline. Then, we run our demographic regression against these standard deviations to see whether anything systematic seems to be driving the amount of volatility in a given state's polling. It turns out that there are a few such things: variance tends to be lower in states with large numbers of African-Americans, for instance, but higher in states with large numbers of elderly voters.

The most important implication of this is that the polls are liable to be more stubborn in the Deep South (excluding Florida) than they are elsewhere in the country. So even though Obama has whittled down McCain's lead to the single digits in states like Georgia, Mississippi, and South Carolina, those are going to be tough points for him to make up. On the other hand, the polls have been quite volatile in Appalachia, where you have a lot of conflicted, downscale voters who are not particularly fond of either of these candidates. So, even though we show McCain with the same 8-point lead in both Georgia and West Virginia, our model gives him a 91 percent chance of hanging on to win Georgia, but just a 75 percent chance of winning West Virginia.

You will notice, by the way, that this second adjustment doesn't distinguish between cases where the polls vary a lot over time, and cases where they vary a lot at the *same* time (as they do in Florida right now, for instance). That's perfectly okay, because both things increase our degree of uncertainty about exactly what's going to happen in November.

Lastly, I have swapped out a couple of variables in the 538 regression analysis. The 'partisan' variable has been replaced by a liberal-conservative Likert scale for each state drawn from 2004 exit polling. This seems to provide slightly more unique information to the model than the partisan ID index, particularly as partisan identification tends to change more quickly over time than one's political philosophy. I have also added a variable for Hillary Clinton's performance in the primaries (the results from caucus states are adjusted). Yes, all else being equal, Obama does worse where Hillary had done better.

p.s. Happy 232nd birthday, America!

49 comments

MC said...

Shouldn't a state's motion relative to the national movement taper at the ends? That is, if Obama is +8 in NH and his national numbers increase by 45 points, His numbers in NH can't go +54 points. On the other hand if Obama goes -45 nationally he's not going to go -54 in NH.

Also, I'm curious, when you select random numbers for the simulation do you draw them from a normally distributed curve with a median based on the national polling numbers and a deviation based on the estimated error calculated by days to election?

Juris said...

Thanks for the wrinkles on wrinkles. Also, I hadn't noticed before that you backdated the Super Tracker to January. Definitely gives a different long view.

You deserve a break. But I can't help but put in a couple of suggestions. First, is there some reasonable way you could do a mock Super Tracker for 2004? I suppose you'd need to do a regression model to smooth that, too, and there's be a lot of data entry, but it would be instructive, I think.

Second, you've made a lot of constructive changes to your model, and kept us well informed about them. But the FAQ is quite out of date and also doesn't cover some of your recent new maps, the Senate, etc. Thanks for anything you can to do catch us up with that.

Happy 4th while it lasts. It's already the 5th where I am this weekend at GMT+2.

Anonymous said...

I agree with mc. Perhaps you should store a variable for each candidate in each state and also over the entire nation that is something like $reachable$ = ($undecided$ + $supports_opponent$) and then scale a shift toward Obama in Utah by $Obama_Utah_reachable$/$Obama_US_Reachable$ versus scaling the same shift in DC by $Obama_DC_reachable$/$Obama_US_Reachable$. This would also require you to recalibrate your state variances/stubbornesses, etc. It isn't theoretically impossible for the country to shift toward Obama by 35%, but it is impossible for DC to do so, and if your model allows for such a possibility then there is a problem, even if there's no realistic chance of such a thing ever happening. A statistical model should never be such that it can predict a theoretical impossiblity.

Also, now that you have a couple regression varible slots open, maybe you should consider using this one: http://calorielab.com/news/wp-images/post-images/fattest-states-2008-big.gif

Anonymous said...

Superior stuff Nate. Keep surpassing our expectations.

Anonymous said...

Obama's win percentage went down with this change.

McCain bias! McCain poll pimp! Hussein!

Mike Barook said...

Dear Nate,

Love the work you do. However, I wish you wouldn't refer to groups of people as "downscale." It sounds condescending, regardless of your intent, which I am sure is analytical and benign. I am one generation away from poverty myself. My mother was on relief during the Great Depression and my father was literally penniless (in Czechoslovakia) at the same time. I know from them that people who have been through poverty and hard times aren't dumb, sometimes they have a wisdom that we more comfortable folk lack.

Phillip said...

West Virginia 23,995 48 <-48th rank in personal income of all the states. YOUR inferring that downscale sounds condescending is you brain adding a connoted prosody to what he said, which is something you should consider at your end as the reader and not take so personally (as the anecdote you apply suggests you do).

phillip said...

your* brain.

counsellorben said...

"I have also added a variable for Hillary Clinton's performance in the primaries (the results from caucus states are adjusted). Yes, all else being equal, Obama does worse where Hillary had done better."

Will this variable decay over time?  Obviously, this is a contentious issue, but I would expect that, after the convention, we would start to see Obama's performance improving where Hillary had done better, especially if she is stumping for him in those areas.

Also, to mike barook, I understand your point about labeling a particular group, but polling and models do focus on groups and their behavior, and I cannot think of any label for many groups that is not either condescending or pejorative.  In this instance, if you can offer a better term of reference for this group, I am sure it would be adopted.

Mike Barook said...

Phillip at 11:00

Yep, I know that West Virginia is not doing well economically. I'd have to be a person who needs to look up "prosody" not to know that! That wasn't my point. It's the connotation of "downscale." Sure it's 'just my brain.' That's what connotation is, what your, my and other brains do with the word aside from its purely literal definition. So really, we'd need to see what other people think. It's currently at the he said - he said stage.

to counsellorben @ 11:01

There was much talk about this strata of the population during the Clinton-Obama battle. I never heard "downscale" used, I heard "working class," Appalachian, Scotch-Irish a couple times. What's wrong with stating the income range, people making between $X - $Y in WV, or even white people making $X - $Y in WV?

Phillip said...

Based on your utterly reasonable reply Mike, I rescind my objection. Happy fourth.

JeffC said...

I agree with mc. I think the key variable is reachables for a state. I see what you are trying to do, by creating a beta to track the way that a poll corresponds to a national trend. If we had 1000 national polls and 1000 state polls, I think this would be very helpful. I don't think its possible with the limited information because I'm afraid that the variance between poll dates would be too much and that it would throw off the beta. I like the idea of using reachables. If you wanted to make it more sophisticated, you could always look at the crosstabs of the national polls and extrapolate.

Really interesting point on GA and WV. This seems to contradict the conventional wisdom and Obama's campaign, which seem to be saying that Obama should spend on WV and ignore GA. I think the real issue will be to track how well the faith-based issue seems to be playing with evangelicals. There is no doubt that he needs to shoot the moon to pull GA out. He needs to increase black turnout and draw a reasonably high evangelical percentage and hope that Barr catches on at least a little. The key factor will be the evangelicals. I'd wait to see how this plays out before pouring too much into the expensive Atlanta TV.

I am really curious to see a WV poll. I tend to agree with you that he isn't losing there by as much as people might have thought after their primary. As a relatively cheap media market, perhaps it shouldn't be a total writeoff yet. A considerable portion of the state will be getting OH and PA TV. Adding in Charleston wouldn't cost that much more.

Nathan said...

Nate, have you considered the possibility of overfitting, given that you're starting to put in fairly arcane variables like Hillary's vote share? As far as that variable goes, my guess is that it's quite strongly correlated with other variables you're already using like income levels and the Likert scale, but that the uncorrelated part has no predictive power for the election - it's related to things like the amount of money each candidate was spending at that point in the election.

Blame said...

Don't forget that some of these polls are biased.

If Obama puts his money into what we think is the wrong state, it is probably because he has internal polls that we have no access to.

I would say the same about McCain except I think he is more likely to make his decisions over a BBQ while bonding with his mates.

I think reseaching the details of polls might give further acuracy. As examples:

Was the presidential vote the first question? If not were previous questions more about Republicans, or about an issue that McCain is winning. Ether would bias the poll in McCains direction. Worse we do not neccesarily have the full list of questions.

Are the order of candidates rotated? "McCain, Obama, Barr" will lead to less votes for Obama than "Obama, McCain, Barr".

At the least you could list suspect polls with bias rating. How about: UB (unbiased) RB (Republican Biased) DB (Democrat Biased) and a quality grade.

Anonymous said...

once you get this all figured out can we have the win percentage tracker back? Pretty please?

Stephen C. Rose said...

downscale alternative = clinton voters

Alexander said...

I noted that the month of January seems to be back in the Super Tracker, and that this suddenly makes Obama's February bump in the trendline shrink from around +5 to +2. It seems strange that the trend swings wildly depending on the cutoff point. Nate, could you explain what's happening and to which extent it affects the outcome?

I am a Fractal said...

hey nate,

any luck finding anyone to make columns sortable in the polling chart?

i know this might be asking for a lot, but it would be nice if there were certain mouseovers... for example, when you mouseover the states in the state map, it could show, state name, latest polls, projection, in a nice little mouseover popup.

when you mouseover the bell curve for ev projections, it could say something like obama 297 mccain 241, 76 simulations.

when you mouseover parts of the super tracker, it could for example, say the date of the dot and what polls each dot is based on, their date, weight, etc.

i suppose its kinda low priority as you keep adding new major features, but who knows, when you're thinking about bells & whistles those are nice bells and whistles...

counsellorben said...

Mike Barook said "I never heard "downscale" used, I heard "working class," Appalachian, Scotch-Irish a couple times."

It's Scots-Irish.  Scotch is a drink (a very good drink).  Many people who self-identify as Scots-Irish would be more offended to be called "Scotch" than "downscale."

I am not joking at all, many are seriously offended by the term "Scotch" when applied to people.

Mike Barook said...

Dear counsellorben,

Thanks for the info. Scots-Irish it is.

Mike

Anonymous said...

I know people have asked this before, but could you please change "win percentage" to something less ambiguous like "win probability?"

Anonymous said...

That one scenario today where Obama loses OH/PA/MI, but still wins the election...I'd love to see that map!

Anonymous said...

Excellent idea to let the variance vary across states. It seems to me that states' variance ought to vary by number of undecideds as well.

If Obama trails McCain by 5 in one state (49-44) and trails McCain by 5 in another state (42-37), the odds of winning the second state should be considerably higher.

I haven't closely followed all the methodological changes to date, but if I recall the two states would currently be treated the same, with undecideds split 50:50.

Modeler said...

I really appreciate the intent of this change, but I really can't help but feel that you've made this model much more complicated than it needs to be.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but it should be straightforward to get the covariance matrix for your regression coefficients. If you include state variables in the model, you'd get the variance per state as well. You could then run your simulations by varying each the regression coefficients based on the covariance matrix, and voila, you would have not only state-by-state variance, but demographic-by-demographic variance as well.

Is Georgia relatively stable because of black people or because there is something special about the state? Looking at the variance of the "Georgia" variable vs the "African American" variable would make that clear.

Other advantages to this approach:

1) You would no longer need ad-hoc weighting of the polls vs regression model or minimum weights for polls. Your regression model would be your projection, and the "state" variables would account for the state-by-state error in your demographic model.

2) You would no longer need to worry about the smoothing parameter for the "super tracker." The trends would be built directly into the regression model.

3) You would identify demographic correlations between states in your simulations. For example, you might find out that Obama rarely wins NC without winning VA, and it's more likely for him to win NC without winning CO. This should lead to some interesting strategy discussions and "tipping-point" style analyses.

Modeler said...

One more quick question: It seems that what you've done here is consider the correlation between each state and the national trend, but you don't consider correlations between similar states. Is that correct?

BG said...

Forgive me if this is already discussed in the comments, but doesn't this change too rigidly tie a state's performance to the national pop vote? I mean, we don't know that NH moves 120% every time, do we? I thought you were using a bell curve in your simulations? Are you still using that bell curve so that each trial run actually picks an appropriate New Hampshire response based on the bell curve with 120% as the mean?

Ruairí said...

Anonymous said...
That one scenario today where Obama loses OH/PA/MI, but still wins the election...I'd love to see that map!


I’ve had that happen a few times on simulations I have run. Almost always, Obama picks up Florida and Virginia as well as Colorado, New Mexico and Iowa to win 275-263. Sometimes he loses New Hampshire but still wins 271-267.

SarahLawrenceScott said...

How about the 20 simulations where McCain loses OH/PA/MI and still wins? I suspect the simulations do it by giving him NH and IA (or maybe OR in place of one of those two), but that's a pretty weird looking map too. Of course anything with a 0.2% probability is going to look pretty weird.

Ruairí said...

McCain would need Florida (of course) and everything west of Wisconsin and Illinois (he can afford to lose either Iowa or Minnesota but not both – let’s give him Iowa). Add in New Hampshire and it’s 270-268. Of course, if Obama wins in Nebraska’s 2nd District, we get a 269-269 tie!

Ruairí said...

Sorry - that last comment didn't include the Pacific States, of course, or Hawaii!!

Anonymous said...

Could you consider graphing your national win % or electoral vote over time? I think that would be interesting.

GregM said...

New RI poll with Obama +24: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/rhode_island/election_2008_rhode_island_presidential_election (Not too surprising)

Also, an interesting Rasmussen poll says Libertarians favor Obama over McCain(http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/libertarians_favor_obama_and_other_looks_at_election_2008). This seems somewhat surprising.

I am a Fractal said...

Anonymous said...

That one scenario today where Obama loses OH/PA/MI, but still wins the election...I'd love to see that map!


uh oh...

feature idea!

when you mouseover the bell curve of the EVD, a popup of the map of that simulation (one map per pixel, right?) shows up. so you can see all the theoretical maps of each simulation? oh no. that would be too much fun.

Anonymous said...

"when you mouseover the bell curve of the EVD, a popup of the map of that simulation (one map per pixel, right?) shows up."

The problem is that the map as it currently is has closer to two results per pixel, and to get one result per pixel the right column would have to be much larger.

obsessed said...

For those yearning to see maps per simulation, here's a fun page:

http://www.270towin.com/simulation/

Of course it doesn't use the 538 data, but it's fun.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone noticed an Insider Advantage poll showing McCain ahead by only 2 points in Georgia? Is that an outlier or has something changed?

Ruairí said...

Anonymous said...
Has anyone noticed an Insider Advantage poll showing McCain ahead by only 2 points in Georgia? Is that an outlier or has something changed?


More likely disaffected voters who might have been prepared to vote for McCain in a pinch now switching to Barr.

Anonymous said...

More likely disaffected voters who might have been prepared to vote for McCain in a pinch now switching to Barr.

Yeah, except that Barr's number fell from 4% in their last survey to 2% in this one. I'm just wondering whether Insider Advantage is for real.

Ruairí said...

Anonymous said...
More likely disaffected voters who might have been prepared to vote for McCain in a pinch now switching to Barr.

Yeah, except that Barr's number fell from 4% in their last survey to 2% in this one. I'm just wondering whether Insider Advantage is for real.


Not sure where you are getting the 2% gap for Barr from: I read the poll McCain 46%, Obama 44%, Barr 4% and 6% undecided. Barr is on 4%, no? InsiderAdvantage is on Nate's pollsters list so I presume they are legit.

Anonymous said...

Not sure where you are getting the 2% gap for Barr from: I read the poll McCain 46%, Obama 44%, Barr 4% and 6% undecided. Barr is on 4%, no? InsiderAdvantage is on Nate's pollsters list so I presume they are legit.

Mea culpa. I got that wrong. I believe (maybe in error) that Barr's number was higher in their last poll. Maybe it was 6% and fell to 4%. Or maybe I'm comparing Insider Advantage to someone else's poll. So many polls, they run together.

Ruairí said...

I can't see Barr doing anything anywhere outside of Georgia, but if he even brings Georgia into play, that's a nightmare for McCain from a campaign/advertising point of view. Hard to think of any other state where he might make a difference.

pechmerle said...

"downscale" has that marketing-lingo ring to it. But there are sensitivies out there. My Kentucky-born mother always sniffed out the implication in labels like this. She Hated comments that were condescending to those with Appalachian backgrounds.

Obama is still not finished paying for that 'bitterly clinging to guns and religions' remark. (That's despite the fact that, based on some of my Midwestern relatives, it is entirely accurate.) I firmly expect that line to appear in the last ads that the RNC runs about a week before the election.

Ruairí said...

pechmerle said...

Obama is still not finished paying for that 'bitterly clinging to guns and religions' remark... I firmly expect that line to appear in the last ads that the RNC runs about a week before the election.


Couldn’t agree more. That remark was never properly dealt with (hard to see how you could actually, especially given – as pechmerle said – that it is essentially true!). Once the NRA gets into its stride it’s going to have a significant effect. As in the following:

The National Rifle Association plans to spend $40 million this election year, with $15 million dedicated to depicting Barack Obama as “bitter” toward guns and as a challenger to the Second Amendment, Politico.com reports.

Keying off a spring fundraising speech in San Francisco in which Obama said that small-town Americans turn to guns and religion to cope with their anger about the economy and Washington, D.C., Chris Cox, head of the NRA’s political arm, told the Web site, “We look forward to showing him ‘bitter.’”


http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/01/report-nra-to-launch-ads-against-obama-depicting-him-as-bitter/

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jakam said...

It's weird that they called North Dakota before SD, NE, and KS, because it looks like ND is the only one of the four where Obama came within a single digit margin.

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平平 said...

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平平 said...

^^ nice blog!! thanks a lot! ^^

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