6.18.2008

Does Obama still have an Appalachia Problem?

I've alluded a couple of times to the fact that Barack Obama's problems in Appalachia, which had seemed to be so pervasive before, suddenly seem to have righted themselves. While he is not running as strong as Hillary Clinton probably would in the region, his numbers now look fairly normal for a non-Southern Democrat.

Two purely Appalachian states have had polling released since the end of the primary campaign. Those are Arkansas, where Rasmussen showed Obama with a 15-point improvement, and Kentucky, where SurveyUSA showed him cutting his deficit from 24 points to 12.

We can also look at the before and after versions of Quinnipiac's Swing State polling, concentrating on Obama's numbers in Southern Ohio and in Southwest and Central Pennsylvania, which are usually classified as part of the Appalachia. Obama's numbers have improved significantly in those regions too:

Region           May         June      Change
Southeast OH -20 -15 +5
Southwest OH -14 +3 +17

Southwest PA -13 +2 +15
Central PA -14 TIE +14

Arkansas -24 -9 +15
Kentucky -24 -12 +12
=============================================
AVERAGE -18.2 -5.2 +13.0


Beyond Ohio and Pennsylvania, this could have implications in West Virginia, where Rasmussen had him trailing John McCain by 8 points just before the primaries concluded. If he gets the same 10+ point bounce in West Virginia that he has gotten elsewhere in the region, the state suddenly looks extremely competitive -- which is why our model is inferring that West Virginia should be a pale shade of pink rather than a ruby red.

75 comments

Western Swing said...

I mentioned this in the Afternoon Polling Update thread but no part of Arkansas is in Appalachia. Arkansas wasn't included in the thirteen states within ARC.

Anonymous said...

Obama Pollster Pimp O-P-P

what my homies are callin me

i can turn red states into blue

with regression analysis version 2

jed jethro & ellie may

i got m voting obama's way

grannie clampet may be gone

chi-town politics will right that wrong

bitter clingers guns and religion

vote for obama there is no division

538 EV that's my goal

everybody is gonna vote for o-bomb-o

Diggsb said...

This is getting ridiculous.

(Ridiculously awesome that is)

asmodeus said...

Obama's appalling appalachian, er, apple problem (or was it Appalachia's problem with him?)was just one of a series of phoney primary season arguments. Like some people wanted to believe that some people voted for Hillary over Obama not because they preferred her or merely because they had heard of her and not him but because everyone in that part of the world was an unreconstructed, unmitigated racist. Racism is likely to be a small percentage of every community's population - so e.g. California just as much or as little as Kentucky - and not tied to a particular street, town, city, state, region, country or even race. I think the media went hunting for weirdos in Appalachia which would have given a false impression of the natives' feelings towards Obama there.

MVRed.com said...

Living in Ohio it is well known across the state that Southwest Ohio is Republican Country, hell even Hamilton County, home to Cincinnati, votes Republican quite a bit. Therefore it's hard for me to believe Obama is doing that well in that area of the state.. Perhaps it was just a bad selection of people to poll or what have you.

www.MVRed.com

Brian Dell said...

Show's pretty much over. McCain is going to have a hard time raising money when donors can see he is going to lose. Which makes it even more likely he will lose, etc.

Exciting for history but sad in terms of policy, given that Obama's commitment to free trade is questionable and his commitment to appointing deferent judges (who don't put a thumb on the scale for [insert oppressed group here]) is even more questionable.

Anonymous said...

But happy news in terms of policy, if you don't happen to think that 700 year-old rights should disappear.

asmodeus said...

I would second what Anon said in reply to Brian Dell except I would replace the words '700-year-old voting rights' - with 'our beautiful planet, Earth,'

Daliant said...

I think your West Virginia prediction is where your method is really going to get interesting. It will be fun to see new polls come out there to see if they follow what your system expects.

McCain must feel like he just entered the Twilight Zone. Everything used to look manageable for him. Like this might actually be a close election. He might want to give things a couple of weeks to settle down, but after that, if things still look like they do now... I can't see how he can't completely change his current strategy if he wants to have a chance. Forget about Michigan and Minnesota - he is going to have to start playing full-time defense in Florida, Ohio, and Virginia. That might make an interesting blog article for you - if you were McCain, what would your strategy be right now?

Anonymous said...

Agreed on the planet, Asmodeus... but I didn't even mean voting rights (although those matter a lot, too). I was thinking more about the right not to be thrown in jail forever without ever being told why, or given the chance to defend yourself in court. Funny that that was a no-brainer in the 13th century, but seems a tough one in the 21st century!

Anonymous said...

Agree you shouldn't confuse Arkansas with Appalachia. It may be Dogpatch but it's still not in them mountains.

Mac said...

McCain Trolls !

get some Kool-aid

its going to get ugly

lol

Anonymous said...

Daliant said:

"That might make an interesting blog article for you - if you were McCain, what would your strategy be right now?"

I think over the last few days we've seen what his strategy is going to be - attack, attack, attack. So much for a high-minded campaign.

WeS said...

If this is what it's turning out to be...this may be a big landslide. I've been saying it's going to be a landslide because of my bias views and the state of discontent in the nation, but now we have some stats!

Obama 08!

asmodeus said...

Right you are, Mr Anon: I added the word 'voting' without noticing. Knew what you meant. Remember, though: Denmark's a prison/Then is the world one ! (Hamlet ActII Scene II)

Anonymous said...

I'm intrigued that central Pennsylvania shows up as a "TIE" right now; this polling was done a month after Penn State, Bucknell, and Juniata (among several others) let out for the summer. The students will be back for November.

Anonymous said...

Offtopic comment - Hi Nate, I'd love to hear your take on the Politico story today that speculates Obama could win the pop vote and lose the electoral college.

Anonymous said...

The 538 regression giving Obama a lead of 1.7 in WV, with the overall projection being a McCain lead of only 1.1, is striking to me. I'll wait to see a poll, but if it's inline with this, I'll definitely be a believer, Nate.

Anonymous said...

Offtopic comment - Hi Nate, I'd love to hear your take on the Politico story today that speculates Obama could win the pop vote and lose the electoral college.

He wrote an earlier article on this issue though may have an update now. (You can find link to the article if you go to heading "electoral math" in left column of this page.)

See here:

"Saturday, June 7, 2008

How the Electoral College Hurts the GOP

There's been some discussion recently about the possibility that Barack Obama wins the popular vote and loses the electoral college; see Mark Ambinder for a pretty good articulation thereof. However, our simulation model thinks that this is actually a bigger worry for John McCain. . . ."

Benjamin said...

Arkansas is not in Appalachia.

Blue Box said...

This is a fun site, and as an Obama supporter I'm of course happy to see these numbers.. But people, this is JUNE. There are still 5 months to the election. Dukakis was up nationally after convention by 18 points and LOST. So while there's lots of room for optimism, let's please please keep this in mind~ It is JUNE. Projections like I saw yesterday here as to what time of evening on voting day Barack will have a winning number of electoral votes are fun to think about, but a real reach at this point. Let's not forget that the Executive branch is still owned by the Repubs, they are masters at the game, and a lot can happen... the national campaign has barely begun. And even if you or I may think the Repub is a vastly inferior candidate, this is no reason to assume anything..

Kiran said...

Arkansas is not Appalachia. But I think Nate has determined that the Ozarks are for the purposes of his models are quite similar.

He groups Arkansas with WV, Tenn, and KY in "highlands" so he probably just confused the term.

KAP said...

Daliant,

I posted a blog entry on just this topic (where to spend your time and money most strategically, based on 538's results) a few days ago; you can read it here.

Since that post, not much has changed, although Texas has gotten a big bump up the list. Doing the same analysis on Nate's numbers today, the current best states (for both candidates) to expend their time and money are:

1. FL 11.1%
2. MI 6.9%
3. NC 6.7%
4. TX 5.5%
5. VA 5.4%
6. IN 5.0%
7. OH 4.6%
8. MO 4.4%
9. CA 3.6%
10. PA 3.5%

KAP said...

And wow, can you imagine how the media would buzz? If Obama began spending a lot of time in TEXAS?

Anonymous said...

I've said before that obama's problem in the highlands was more a matter of style than race. I grew up in the southern foothills and it's sill true that we prefer our leaders hot to cool. as we enter the ge and O starts fighting, I think we'll see more voters move toward him.

Stephen C. Rose said...

Good points Blue Box. I find myself pinching myself because of the ineptitude of McCain or his staff or both. I think things like McGovern in '72.

But remembering the primary season and the reaction when Barack was considered unbeatable (he had it in Feb.), I see either a horrendous GOP smear effort which would backfire or some sort of McCain recovery similar to his unexpected resurgence in the primaries.

The latter would be pretty difficult though -- because of the variability and shakiness of his positions and his alienation from the rank and file GOP.

If an Obama lead solidifies, I imagine we will have more drama at the GOP convention than in Denver.

ANON REGISTRATION PLEASE

Ohio Voter said...

I have been checking in to this site off and on because it seemed like a pretty solid analysis. This will be the last time I bother because your numbers are so clearly off base.

Weighting the recent and clearly tweaked out Quinnipiac and PPP polls like you have is ridiculous, and yields the (obviously biased) results you've listed in OH and FL.

I think it's clear that you are, as an above commenter suggests, trying to discourage certain donors and supporters by painting the map blue. An an Ohioan, I feel pretty content in stating that, given only anecdotal evidence, the party breakdowns of the recent polls (Quin, PPP) are definitely wrong. Seeing you jump at data that is so obviously skewed makes me question a few other states as well...

A single tweaked out poll back in April somehow keeps Obama on top in IN. You think that's going to play out? WV as barely red? Maybe you didn't pay attention during the primaries. VA is leaning blue? Plausible... but suspicious given OH, FL, IN, WV.

I've lost faith in your analysis. Rasmussen will be my polling and analysis of choice from here on out.

VOR said...

That's hilarious, Ohvoter. Rasmussen has a partnership with 538.com.

And that's not the only thing you don't understand. Like the fact that 538 actually evaluates pollster reliability. But I'm not going to try to explain anything more to you since, as you say, you're gone. Back to Findlay or wherever.

Clark Miller said...

To be fair, Ohio Voter, Nate's commentary on today's voting raises the voter ID question and notes that these two polls do not standardize voter ID. As Nate points out, there's a huge debate over whether one should weight to voter ID (but then to what standard?) or to go with a likely voter model that seeks to find out who is likely to vote (and, therefore, allows for some possibility of capturing turnout trends). Weighting voter ID gives you the benefit of consistency from poll to poll, but it means you lose dynamics.

You might also take a look at the pollster ratings Nate has compiled. For sure, Rasmussen gets really good results, but PPP and Quinnipiac have very solid ratings, too.

Leo said...

"I feel pretty content in stating that, given only anecdotal evidence, the party breakdowns of the recent polls (Quin, PPP) are definitely wrong."

Quoted without comment.

Another Mike said...

Ohvoter, Nate has used and applied the same weighting for pollsters and recency of polls for quite a while. To do as you suggest and make a subjective judgment as to the validity of a particular poll because its party id breakdown is right or wrong, is precisely what Nate doesn't do and is the reason the site has such credibility. 538 weighs every poll.

KAP, I think you've got a fundamental mistake in your analysis of how campaigns should allocate resources. Your methodology is more geared to maximizing EV total. Instead, the true goal is maximizing the odds of winning 270 EVs. To do so, the best current list of states to concentrate upon is Nate's Tipping Point States. I do wish, as many others have also stated, that Nate would make a list of states showing the percentage of simiulations in which winning the state makes the difference between winning or losing the election and, to keep it focused on true battleground states, in which the margin of victory in the state is within a certain small percentage (e.g. 5%). This would give a better idea of where campaigns should focus resources to maximize their chances of winning the election.

Anonymous said...

Ohiovoter: check the sample sizes. Nate's not being arbitrary here.

zlionsfan said...

Well, it wouldn't be an analytical site without the obligatory posts from people who don't get it ... "never mind all the analysis, you're wrong because I say you are."

I'm looking forward to the next Indiana poll. And maybe one in Louisiana.

And yes, the EVD looks something like Virginia, although I think it's a little squished once you get southeast of Richmond.

Anonymous said...

Ohio voter: actually, since I'm not sure which part you missed, look at the date, the sample size, the pollster rating, and the trendlines. They're all input into the same model for all states and all pollsters. There's no favoritism here.

David L. Blaylock said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Well, now we know Obama is going to win in a landslide. Just like we knew Guiliani and Clinton had a lock on the nomination, 5 months before Iowa voted.

All this complex statistical analysis is a complete waste of time until late October. The Obama and McCain campaigns are framing messages, not trying to juice a fleeting lead in state-by-state polls. The Obama fan club here would do well to lay off the kool aid. For those armchair analysts who think McCain donors should be discouraged with 5 months to go, you have obviously never heard the phrase "a month is a lifetime in politics".

MVRed.com said...

Maybe if you guys lived in Ohio you'd understand. I live in Youngstown, OH, a heavily Democratic area that the Democrats normally get 60% of the vote. This time around that is very suspect since this was also Hillary country and a lot of the Reagan Democrats here are looking to back McCain.

Here is some numbers to ponder on. At my place of work there were 20 women who supported Hillary, 5 are now going to vote for Obama, 12 are going to vote for McCain, with the other 3 undecided or going independent.

Folks, until we see some real data from quality polls, this data means nothing to me.

Southwest Ohio is HEAVILY Republican! There is no way in hell Obama leads there, he won in 2 counties in SW Ohio over Clinton, while the other 10-15 went to Clinton.

I'd agree if Obama had a lead in Northern Ohio, but he is losing all throughout rural Ohio.

such sweet thunder said...

The 538 regression giving Obama a lead of 1.7 in WV, with the overall projection being a McCain lead of only 1.1, is striking to me. I'll wait to see a poll, but if it's inline with this, I'll definitely be a believer, Nate.

Before Obama became the presumptive nominee, McCain was running ads in WV. Jerome, an advocate of Hillary Clinton at MyDD, floated this as loose evidence that the nomination fight wasn't over yet -- and that certainly seemed like a sound observation.

But it looks like camp-McCain may have known what the polls are beginning to show. I agree with the poster here who said Obama's Appilachia problem is probably more based on style than ethnicity. That party of the country, and the East Coast to a lessor extent, loves fighters. When given the choice between two equally laid-back candidates, it looks like many may be attracted to the Democratic candidate.

Anonymous said...

Some of you really need to seek for a grip on history, because Obama is not currently projected to win by any kind of landslide. The notion that Obama's currently projected high-300s win or that anything over 375 electoral votes is a landslide is counter-historical nonsense. Wins over 400 EV have been commonplace over the past 100 years, so either landslides are the norm, or that term should be reserved for truly remarkable elections, such as those resulting in nearly 500 EV or more for the winner. Either way, Obama is now projecting out to a solid but unremarkable victory, no more stunning in magnitude than Bill Clinton's wins (370 EV and 379 EV) or Calvin Coolidge's 1924 victory (382 EV). While not nailbiters, none of those are or deserve to be remembered as landslide or near landslide elections. We are still a long way from 1932, 1936, 1964, 1972, 1980, or 1984.

Jeff said...

I love the "anecdotal evidence" stories... "Obama can't possibly be winning OH because everyone I know is voting for McCain!"

Sorry, people... polling is a lot more accurate than your anecdotal evidence. Can polling be wrong? Of course, but Ras is the only recent OH poll that shows Obama behind, and it's by a statistically insignificant amount. It could be right, or the other major pollsters could be right, or none of them could be right. The purpose of this site is to try and make some sense of them, and if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to read it.

Jallenrule said...

Glad to see the McCain ads disappear from your sidebar (even if temporarily). If your site were a golf course, it would be a PGA worthy, yet the McCain ads were like having a pile of bird shit on the putting green.

MVRed.com said...

Here's my thoughts on the state that I live in:

http://mvred.com/2008/06/19/latest-polls-mean-little/

Thoughts on the polls altogether and my thoughts on Ohio this fall!

Mard said...

Nate:

Your EV Distribution chart shows a major spike at about 390 EVs, however by my math Obama is expected to win about 360 EVs if he wins the state you have marked in the Obama v McCain projection map. What states do your models see flipping to give Obama an extra 30 EV? My guess would be NC and GA since that could put Obama at 390, but from the shades of red on your map it doesn't seem your model predicts GA turning for Obama. Could you look into it? Give us a preview, what's the next state to turn blue on your projection map? :)

Modeler said...

Kap,

I really like your idea of trying to determine where a candidate should allocate resources. But I think you need to take into account the fact that $100,000 in NH goes a lot farther than $100,000 in CA. The metric you should be trying to maximize is expected EV / $.

TheOtherJosh said...

Your argument of "PPP and Quinnipiac are crummy polls" is very convincing MVRed.

I will be sure never to return to your blog.

Anonymous said...

A number of remarks around here let you know who people want to see win. I have no problem with that. But I do believe the objective of this Web site is to piece together that likely results as we're progressing throughout the election season. And it is on that note that I thank any and all individuals responsible for making fivethirtyeight.com possible.

Cugel said...

I suppose it's just impossible to prevent people who have no understanding of what this site is about from posting nonsense. It's too bad, because it's distracting from a reasoned discussion, but I suppose inevitable.

What on earth do people THINK the state by state election projection would look like at a time when Obama has a +4% national lead?

Nate just published the graph last Monday showing the expected electoral vote breakdown from a +5 national vote margin is 330 electoral votes. So, given Obama's current +4 lead he should have somewhere between around 315-330 EVs. Which is right where the projection shows him to be right now!

Will that lead hold up? Who the hell knows? But, unless the national polling changes then that Blue-Blue map is something Republicans are just going to have to get used to, because that's exactly what you would expect to see!

And unless something changes for McCain there's no reason to change the projections on this site.

What do these idiots want? That Nate should somehow "project" that the race will tighten up, just to feed their "gut instinct" of what they think will happen in November?

If anything that Obama bounce is MORE pronounced in blue/purple states like Ohio, Virginia and other battlegrounds, because there are a lot more disaffected Democrats and Democratic-leaning Independents who are currently moving to Obama. You can bet that he's NOT bouncing to the same degree in states like Mississippi or Oklahoma where there are a lot more Republicans and fewer Democratic voters for Obama to "consolidate." That means he's bouncing MORE in states where voters are more persuadable for Obama.

To get to around 330 EV, Obama would need to win a bunch of states like Michigan, Ohio, Florida, Colorado and Virginia. And that's exactly what the state by state polling is now reflecting.

So, the national polling and the state-by-state polling are showing exactly the same thing, which is mutually reinforcing. And the regression analysis matches up very well with a 330 EV projection which in turn is exactly what you'd expect if Obama is winning by +4 nationally.

So far, everything ties in together to paint a consistent picture of an election with Obama in a relatively NARROW lead historically, but a WIDER lead than Bush had in either of the last two elections.

In short, the election so far is looking more like Clinton in 1996 (although NOT to quite that degree) and less like Bush 2004 (squeaker), which would NOT exactly be a total shock if it turned out that way. Instead it would be a reversion to NORMAL historical elections where one side or the other had a narrow but significant advantage.

As a poster above pointed out, this is still nothing like Reagan 1980 territory, let alone Nixon 1972, Johnson 1964 or Reagan 1984.

jqb said...

Obama's appalling appalachian, er, apple problem (or was it Appalachia's problem with him?)was just one of a series of phoney primary season arguments. Like some people wanted to believe that some people voted for Hillary over Obama not because they preferred her or merely because they had heard of her and not him but because everyone in that part of the world was an unreconstructed, unmitigated racist.

You're misinformed. The perception of an Appalachian problem was evidence-based.

jqb said...

this data means nothing to me

No one cares.

jqb said...

All this complex statistical analysis is a complete waste of time until late October.

Then why are you visiting this site? Concern trolling? General jackassery?

Anonymous said...

All very much correct, Cugel, except that a four point popular vote win in a presidential election where only two candidates win electoral votes is a historical rarity -- 1896 being the most recent example, and the only one somewhat resembling a 21st century election. McKinley's 4.31% popular vote win resulted in his receiving 60.6% of the electoral votes. Scaled to 2008, that would be a 326 EV victory for Obama.

Matt said...

I love this site...the only way to save America (for real this time) is to elect Obama.

Anonymous said...

I (still) agree regarding Indiana -- I haven't seen anything to justify the large push it has been given in the Obama direction. And FWIW, Nate's own regression model isn't seeing it either. Smart model. Now maybe I'm wrong and the next poll really will turn Indiana blue -- but for now, methinks there's a rather large thumbprint on the scale...

MVRed.com said...

You're wrong. The only way to preserve capitalism, and to stay away from socialism is to elect McCain!

BTW, This site is so far off on states like Indiana and WV, Obama does not stand a chance in these states, but somehow or another they are toss up's according to your math.

Your 538 Regression truly destroys what will likely happen in the fall.

Florida is going Republican folks.

Mason said...

MVRed -
Your opinion is all well and good, but the evidence disagrees.

Matthew H said...

What evidence? The evidence I see is that McCain is up 8 in WV, and while survey results are a bit wild in Indiana, two of the last three were solidly red and the third had Obama at a mighty +1.

The only 'evidence' is this Obama bounce theory, and we have no evidence this actually works. Take out the bounce theory, and West Virginia is soldly red and Indiana is a pale pink, which is as it should be.

I mean, seriously, if I offered a bet of $1000 that Indiana, West Virginia, and Nevada would all vote for McCain, and all you had to do to win was for one of them to go Obama in November, would you take it? According to 538, that's a sucker bet, but I'm pretty sure who the actual sucker would be.

P.S. I'm a Bill Richardson supporter who's currently leaning heavily towards Obama. This isn't a pro-McCain pipe dream.

Anonymous said...

MVRed, Your assumption about Cincinnati may or may not still be valid, but I think you're forgetting that Dayton is likely counted in that "SW Ohio" sample. Montgomery County went for Kerry in '04.

VagabondJim said...

When did Arkansas become appalachian? It's in the Ozarks and on the west side of the Mississippi River!

Now, there may be simalar demographics between KY and AR, but...

Naomi said...

"When did Arkansas become appalachian?"

According to Michael Barone, Arkansas is part of the "Jacksonian" migration, and therefore fits in with the Appalachian states in terms of voting patterns. Coloradoans, on the other hand, are not Jacksonians, and are therefore culturally distinct from Appalachians, even though they are also mountain people.

It all seems a bit arbitrary to me.

Anonymous said...

Arkansas ain't Appalachia, but it has some of the same demographic and historical roots.

At last, we learn, perhaps, that the Appalachian hatred of Obama was really just hostility towards anyone not from there (which is nothing new, and better in some books than masked hostility you see in the Deep South).

That, and gas prices matter.

Charles Pluckhahn said...

I'm going to be curious to see how Hillary Clinton is deployed. It's looking quite unlikely that she'll be on the ticket, but that doesn't mean she goes away.

Starting today, she's getting back into the fray on Obama's side. This afternoon, I'm going to be on a Clinton conference call organized on that theme.

I don't know what will happen, but my hunch is that you'll a lot of her in the Ohio River Valley, Missouri, Arkansas and Appalachia.

The big reason I originally supported her was because I thought she could connect with white working class voters who've been going Republican in recent decades.

Little did I know that this would eventually turn into the sort of code talking that characterized her campaign between Februrary and May (and which drove me away, but I think Clinton definitely "found her voice," as she has put it, during those months.

It was NOT all racism, or even predominantly so. This cohort of people has been overlooked, somewhat disrespected, and definitely taken for granted by Democrats for a long time.

Clinton paid attention to them, and I think there's a chance she'll make a difference even if she's not on the ticket. In fact, maybe especially if she's not on the ticket, because if she fulfills her pledge to "work my heart out," she'll come across as being authentic and sincere.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic about this one, but I'd suggest that people ought to stay tuned for some pretty good news.

Charles Pluckhahn said...

Turned out to be a thank-you call. Nothing specific about her campaign plans. Oh well. I'll just have to wait 'n see like everyone else.

Steve said...

As a socially liberal and fiscally conservative person, I voted for Reagan the 2nd time (too young the first), Bush I, Bush I, Dole, Bush II. Then I voted for Kerry because at least he didn't seem to lie about everything. Character matters.

I supported McCain in the 2000 primary race. I figured if McCain ever go nominated, I'd vote for him.

I'm voting Obama this year.

Is it 'change'. Probably. I'll be glad never to see a Bush or Clinton in the white house again--sick of their politics and self-centeredness on both sides.

Do I think Obama is Carter II? No. Carter I had some good ideas and some not so good ideas--and he inherited a really crappy economy to boot--not that he helped it.

I'm voting Obama because he is smart, thinking, and by all appearances, fair. Will he raise taxes? probably. Do I want him to? probably--at least in some areas.

Will he shut down Iraq? Probably not immediately--I think in the end he'll be fairly prudent there. Do I know that? no.

Will he spend money? Yes. Will he spend as much as Bush--no.

Will he kowtow to the left? I don't think so--he'll have mainstream centrist support and will hopefully govern to just to the left of center.

Essentially I consider myself a rationalist--lets be pragmatic about what we do--govern to center and be reasonable.

I think Obama is that man. I think McCain isn't the man I voted for in the 2000 primaries. I don't think the man has any vision and isn't a leader.

So yes, I'm voting for Obama because I do want change. I want someone who can form complete sentences and communicate complicated ideas with ease. I want someone respected in the world who can deal with other nations not as if they were inferior to ours or subjugates.

Will I be proven wrong in 2009 or 2010? Maybe. But one never knows until the man is in office.

Of course I live in Georgia so my vote may not mean much....

Chris said...

As mentioned above, no part of Arkansas is in Appalachia. It is also incorrect to say that Kentucky is "purely" Appalachian. Only the eastern half of Kentucky is in Appalachia. West Virginia is the only state in which every county is an Appalachian county.

Anonymous said...

Steve,

Just a bit of CITOKATE -- Carter and Volokher are credited for ending stagflation, and Carter's Federal Reserve Chairman (Volokher) is regarded as the best Fed Chairman in history. He did alright, with the economy.

;-)

Folks, I live in liberal Appalachia, in a Machine State. WV is what we call a corrupt state. It'll vote however the coal companies/unions want it to vote.

Now, as to why Appalachia didn't like Obama, I can speak to a few things.

1. Innate Hostility to Foreigners
2. Liking people to run more than once to get to know 'em (maybe that's just PA).
3. Liking fighter-type politicians
4. Obama sounded like all the other politicians who show up for votes and nothing else (these are bitter, untrusting folk, some of them, and they've reason enough for it).
5. Racism -- yeah, it's there, and mixed is worse than black.

Fast Eddie Rendell can say what he wants -- those "white folk who won't vote for a black man" WILL vote for him in the General!

Kromkowski said...

I think "Appalachian" is the wrong term.

Demographically, what we are talking about is the statistically significant group of people that respond to the Census Ancestry question "American or United States".

Second, when we talk about a demographic group we need to be careful to understand that we are not talking about individuals we are talking about the probabilities of an aggregated unit.

Consider drawing samples from a tub of marbles some percent p of which are red. As the percent p rising our sample scoop will "on average" have more red marbles. We are saying nothing about an individual marble.

Is a team with a batting average of .300, definitely going to get a hit on every at bat? No, but its more likely to get a hit than a team whose batting average is .180? Is every one on the .180 team a crappy hitter. Not necessarily?

Finally, we are not talk about "causation". Responding to the Ancestry question with "American" rather than "Polish" or "Italian" or "English", doesn't "cause" you to vote Republican. It's just "correlated", so that as a matter of prediction or betting the odds.

The historical reasons that consider and hypothesis about ethnicity and politics are complex interesting and messy. Politics is local but so it turns out is ethnicity/ancestry in the US. We remain remarkably "unmelted", unhomoginized, and dynamically changing.

Use the American Fact Finder, Census 2000 Summary File 3 (SF3)
TM-PCT047. Percent of Persons of United States or American Ancestry: 2000

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ThematicMapFramesetServlet?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-tm_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U_M00137&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF3_U&-_lang=en&-format=&-CONTEXT=tm

VT is a special case, because Marxists/secular Left eschew "ethnicity" and there is something similar going on to what happens in ME. ME is special case because there is a distinguishing between Fr. "Canadians" and "American" so you get a weird response.

If you run the map by 3-digit zip you can get a better sense.

Anonymous said...

Obama's bounce has proven to be both anemic and ephemeral. It has been magnified in some of these polls because of misampling and over identification of Democrats.

Issues matter and they are trending away from Obama. He refuses to concede the need for more domestic energy exploration thereby getting cross wise with the a large majority of voters on issue number one; his unscripted moment in hailing the trial of the 1996 WTC bombing culprits as the way to fight terroism shows him to be dangerously ill-informed; the success in Iraq coupled with our turning back of the Taliban in Afghanistan is going to make the people wonder if his strategy of heedless withdrawal regardless of the facts is the right one; and his withdrawal from the campaign finance system has generated bad press from every quarter and sown the seeds of doubt about how "new" his politics are.

About the only thing good to happen for him this week was his wife's appearance on the View and even that re-hashed a lot of bad press for her while the media focussed on her "make over".

Expect him to fall in the polls through the middle of next week, barring any interruption in the news cycle. McCain could even take the lead nationally in a weeks' time, if the drilling and financing stories continue to spin negative for Obama.

The drilling issue has the potential to ressurect the Republican Party in general and we will see how truly nimble Obama is in reacting to it.

My guess is that he is too beholden to the left wing (being a leftist himself) to move on the issue and will believe that his $500 million campaign war chest will guarantee him election.

It might if we were electing an underwear model, but not the President of the United States!

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