6.12.2008

Carne Asada con Obama



That is a picture of the signage at an extremely popular (and very good) taqueria in my neighborhood in Chicago. They have a conspicuously large sign which is visible from a major intersection and is probably worth a couple thousand bucks a month in advertising impressions, and have decided to devote roughly the bottom third of it to a homemade testament to Barack Obama.

Not that this anecdote should mean very much in the larger scheme of things. Obama barely carried my home district, the ridiculously gerrymanderd, Hispanic-majority IL-4, in the Illinois primary in February.

The Latino experience in America is primarily still an immigrant experience, and immigration boomed in the 1990s when the Clintons were in office. A lot of Hispanics who are now becoming citizens, or who are now registering to vote for the first time, came to America then, or had friends and family who did.

But I've been saying for a long time that one should not confuse the outpouring of support among Latinos for Hillary Clinton in the primaries with a lack of support for Barack Obama in the general election. Voting is intrinsically relativistic. I've made this comparison before, but would Hillary Clinton be regarded as running strong among Catholics if her opponent were John F. Kennedy?

I mention this because a couple of national polls -- the new NBC-WSJ survey as well as Gallup's extensive May tracking data -- now show Obama with roughly a 2:1 lead among Hispanic voters. Exit polls had John Kerry winning Hispanics by only about 55-45 in 2004 (although that figure is disputed), so this is a gain the Democrats are making right at the same time that Latinos begin to vote in much greater numbers.

One saving grace for McCain: Hispanics do not vote monolithically. Mexican Americans vote differently from Puerto Rican Americans from Cuban Americans. And so we should not necessarily assume that Obama's numbers are going to improve among Cuban voters in Florida.

50 comments

Anonymous said...

Nate,
I saw this on first read and wanted to ask for your opinion ... if obama does maintain a consistent lead over mccain, how much of a bradley effect do you see happening in november? Also, can the upsurge in young voters and AA voters counter the possible bradley effect?
Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Nate,
I saw this on first read and wanted to ask for your opinion:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/12/1135634.aspx


... if obama does maintain a consistent lead over mccain, how much of a bradley effect do you see happening in november? Also, can the upsurge in young voters and AA voters counter the possible bradley effect?
Thanks.

Nate said...

I don't buy into the Bradley Effect. If anything, there was a reverse Bradley Effect in the primaries.

Gavin said...

So is this a teaser for the relaunching of the Burrito Bracket?

Anonymous said...

Ahhh, La Pasadita. For those who don't know, there are actually three restaurants. Two right next to each other and the third across the street. It's definitely one of your stranger set ups.

Anonymous said...

Rasmussen's new North Carolina poll has McCain up only 2 (45-43)!

Anonymous said...

In an earlier life (2007), our blogmaestro started the Burrito Bracket:

http://burritobracket.blogspot.com/

Alas, even as he began to write about politics, he left us on the edge awaiting the "finals."

Please, Nate, gorge yourself for a week and finish the tournament!

Anonymous said...

this billboard has been up since at least the beginning of the year, and definitely pre-super tuesday.

then again, it's chicago so it's not like obama was ever lacking in latino support.

Ben said...

Ah, La Pasadita! One good reason to segue over to Ashland. I wonder what his margins in Chicago will be. 80-20 in IL-4? 90-10 in IL-2?

Anonymous said...

Carne Asada? Barbacoa! Ahhh, La Pasadita, the finest tacos in Chicago-so great they need 3 locations in the same block. You must live no more than a couple of blocks from me. Mondays at Gold Star-half price everything!
Anyway, as to the Bradley effect, does anyone have any evidence pro or con?

gleam said...

Ahhh La Pasadita. The one on the east side of Ashland is better. And, of course, even though your burrito brackets disagreed, the tacos (especially the pastor) at Carniceria Leon -- now Carniceria Mi Tierra) - are superior. And, Nate, you should really start posting or at least lurking (if you're not already) at LTHForum.com.

I, too, live in IL-4, down in pilsen, on the opposite side of 290. Really a ridiculous gerrymander.

Anyway, I've started to see a lot more Obama signs and bumper stickers down here over the past couple months. I think he'll do just fine with Latinos, especially as he starts pushing his biography and his positions. If only there were campaign footage of him participating in the 5/1/06 immigration march.

Ben said...

Maybe Chicago folks can help him out -- start a viral search for home video of Barack's march!

Anonymous said...

How in the hell is it possible to have a district gerrymandered that bad! Jesus!

Anonymous said...

I had no idea that La Pasadita, Gold Star, Honky Tonk BBQ, and the Skylark were all in the same district.

IL-4: best district ever?

Hollywood said...

De Pasada is better

RedsManRick said...

I live a block away from that taqueria. The "Elect Obama" message has been up for quite some time (a year?) and there are a number of yard signs posted on my street. I cannot recall seeing any Clinton or McCain signs.

That said, the demographics of the neighborhood (roughly equal mix of Hispanic, black, white -- though white is a decent mix of young professional and older eastern european) probably are a distant secondary consideration to the home-town hero effect.

dbt said...

I've been very skeptical of the "Bradley Effect" ever since the daily howler took it on after New Hampshire:

http://dailyhowler.com/dh010908.shtml

(Yes he sometimes gets things wrong. but he should still be required reading for libs.)

Alex in LA said...

Hey Nate,

Long time reader, first time commentator. As a Mexican-American, i agree with your assessment for the most part. It's mostly generational. My parents and grandparents emigrated to this country during the Carter era, lived through the Reagan era and came of age politically in the Clinton era. I've heard my grandfather say things like, "My two favorite presidents were Carter and Reagan." Ronald Reagan is very well liked in the Mexican-American community for what is perceived as his pro-immigrant stance in regard to amnesty. Mrs. Clinton is seen in the community as a loyal friend, so she got strong support from the community. But in regards to John Mccain thinking he has a chance, no way. The R next to his name destroys any pro-immigrant cred he has. But like I said earlier, it is generational. I grew up in California's 32nd congressional district and there are elements of more established conservative Mexican-Americans. I know my fair share of neo-cons. *shudders.

So anyway, yeah, I think Obama will take the latino vote nationally, especially in the southwest. However to add to your point that the latino vote isn't monolithic, i'd just like to point out that even within the respective communities, it's not.

Anyway, I'd like to thank you for your amazing site, dude. Keep up the good work.

Joe said...

It's kind of interesting that the Mexican population in the US votes for the (somewhat) more liberal party, given that they are overwhelmingly Catholic and have a culture based very much on traditional family structures. The previous commenter notes the conservative Mexican-American presence in California. I would submit that a longer tenure in the U.S. might allow naturally conservative tendencies to express themselves. Chicago's Mexican population has been here for a shorter time, generally, so perhaps the community is still maturing.

I AM NOT FAT said...

Definitely a very cool thing to see. People are invested in the Obama candidacy. I do not think the same can be said about McCain. How many voters are really excited about voting for McCain? Really I think very very few. Obama on the other hand is probably generating more real excitement than in a very long time. Maybe ever. Those excited people will not only be donating to his campaign in record numbers but also doing things like this - Making their own signs - doing their own advertising. It's a beautiful thing - because it's true people powered democracy in action.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the Bradley effect was ever thought to be a major factor in primary elections.

Anonymous said...

You don't have to say "Puerto Rican Americans." They're all Americans. It's liek saying "North Dakota Americans."

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure that on a whole Obama was underestimated in primary polling.

Anonymous said...

i'm kind of amazed at the insane number of wicker park locals in this comment section. the only thing i like more than 538 is a nice steak taco from la pasadita. when i was still in law school, i'd have them for "breakfast" all the time on my way downtown.

Anonymous said...

Pasadita's not bad; neither is the Gold Star. Around the corner on Division, Rite Liquors is the best slashie (liquor store-cum-bar) in the city.

I realize we're a self-selecting bunch, but what a shame so many posters here will be meaninglessly inflating Obama's margin of victory here in Illinois...

So, Nate, White Sox, Cubs, or neither?

Anonymous said...

(sorry, i can't resist)

I log on and see a shoutout to La Pasadita and Cut-Rate Rite Liquors!?!

Outstanding!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kimballhoman/409245023/

If there's ever to be a secret meeting of Chicago fivethirtyeight.com devotees, I hope it's held there.

TB in Logan said...

Hey Nate,

IL-4 is my district too! It is hard canvassing and trying to recruit new supporters because most of my neighbors do not speak English. In fact, I find it a bit frustrating when I go to the ward meetings.

However, on a side note Las Pasadita's has the best torta in town.

Question: If Obama keeps on the same trend IE five point gains and McCain does not shore up his base or make gains in O's what is the likelihood of an O landslide. Specifically what is the percentage window.

Anonymous said...

Nate,
Long time reader, first time commentator (lol, I've always wanted to type that), anyways I see you have it at 278-260, whereas it's 272-266 on realclearpolitics, which state/states are conflicting between the two websites?
Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Aggregating data from the various comments' sections, we may conclude that:

- many of 538's readers are computer scientists.
- many are from Chicago.
- not many are Hispanics.

(Serious: we had a fascinating commentary a little while ago about Chaldeans in Michigan, and here - so little commentary by Hispanics about their communities?)

Michael Taylor said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Michael Taylor said...

Nate,

In the spirit of fivethirtyeight's attempt to forecast electoral outcomes in unconventional ways, have you considered altering the standard electoral map of the US.

The current red vs. blue with color variation map that is used highlights the large land area of the red states, but isn't really effective in showing the popular and electoral vote distributions. Would you consider replacing it with a US population cartogram, where states are sized not along geographic area but based upon either population or electoral vote?

Tim Quigley said...

So this afternoon I ran a quick errand. Living here in central PA, the local NPR station only plays classical music in the middle of the day so once in a while I poke over to see what blowhard Rush Limbaugh are grumbling about. Call it some opposition research, if you will. So what was he grumbling about today? How Obama was losing Hispanics. How the Dem. party wasn't unified. How Obama is a media created fake. And I thought to myself...I just read that Obama was crushing in the Hispanic polls, the party is unifying faster than anyone thought, and coming from 30 points down can't possibly be only media generated. Maybe someone needs to get good old Rush some new research assistants. Sounds like the ones he has are like the ones that Bush has...don't bring data he won't like!

Anonymous said...

In Manhattan, the Grey's Papaya (famous NYC hotdogs, for those who don't know!) on 72nd and Broadway, on the Upper West Side, put up a massive poster covering the front of the store which says simply, "YES Senator Obama". I can't recall if they did it prior to the NY primary or after. But I heard some grumbling from Upper West Side residents (Hillary country!).

Anonymous said...

Well maybe you should learn from them and have an elect an Obama ad on this site instead of a giant MCAIN ad.

I've lost my respect for this site.

Aaron said...

Don't lose the respect Anon 4:10. I am sure Nate donates to the Obama campaign, and every time you click that ad McCain sends money to Nate. Its even better than if McCain put an ad on the bottom of the ocean. No one here is swayed by that ad. It could only be better if Nate set up an automatic transfer.

Actually, I wouldn't mind another non-political add or two on the site (to help cover Nate's costs) if it meant an arrow pointing to the McCain ad saying "make McaCain donate to BHO... click here".

PT Love said...

Commenting on some comments...

gleam - you're absolutely right, the east side Pasadita has the clearly superior carne asada. That said, the southwest Pasadita is worth checking out for the fabulous steak chachos (basically a really good nacho platter with a bunch of carne asada dumped on top). I'll go to that one, order the chachos, then run across the street for tacos and/or burritos while they're putting it together....

michael taylor - Nate actually had cartograms up when he was still doing the Obama/Clinton matchup comparisons, but seems to have dropped them now (too cluttered?). I agree, they're a nice way to get a realistic perspective.

anonymous 3:43 (long-time reader): Nate's numbers aren't based on simply assigning each state to McCain or Obama - he's running simulations that generate many different scenarios, and the EV numbers he's reporting are averages over all the sims (probably better explained in the FAQ).

Joe said...

Hey, what about a 538 meetup at Gold Star? All drafts are half off on Mondays.

John C. said...

>>@"then again, it's chicago so it's not like obama was ever lacking in latino support."

Not completely true. I made a really half-assed map of the primary results within each of Chicago's wards:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seaworthy/2246957518/

There are two big chunks of the map that are pink (representing wards that Clinton won): the one at the top is composed mostly of white working-class Chicagoans, and the one in the middle is largely Latino (including Pilsen, Little Village, etc.).

Sean said...

I'm in Logan Square too, and my wife and I both voted Obama! Go Chicago...

Lorne Guyland said...

Not that it means much empirically, but I did find it interesting that the McCain campaign is already spending campaign $$ trying to shore up that Cubano vote in FL.

Michael & PT: check the archives on this, but originally there were no maps here, only the cartograms; but Nate had trouble getting a functional one that was also legible...

Rasmus said...

Too bad I´m approx. 4250 miles too far away from the Pasadita to try it, but what I saw on the Burrito Bracket looked really good.

joe said...

"However, on a side note Las Pasadita's has the best torta in town."

These are the last words I expected to see when I came to this site tonight, but none are truer.

I passed by La Pasadita tonight on the way to my rehearsal space, and now I regret not stopping by for a torta.

Then again, I'm sure my girlfriend is happy I didn't ;-D

I would definitely hit up a 538 Chi-town meet up. Gold Star is on my way home from the space, and we rehearse on Monday nights.

Looks like I may go home a little later than usual next monday!

Lee said...

Spent many a drunk night buying burritos at La Pasadita. Lived next door to Cut Rate -- came home from work one day to hear about a stabbing/murder there -- two 70 something guys got into it over a woman.

gleam said...

If you think the tortas at La Pasadita are good, you desperately (desperately) need to try the cemitas at Cemitas Puebla, on North near Central Park. Go. GO.

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平平 said...

^^ nice blog!! ^@^

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平平 said...

^^ nice blog!! thanks a lot! ^^

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