5.30.2008

Turnout in Puerto Rico

The new Greenberg Quinlan Rosner poll of Puerto Rico provides some hints at what turnout might be on the island.

In the survey, Puerto Rican adults were asked to rate their likelihood of voting in Sunday's primary on a scale of 1 to 10. 46 percent rated themselves as at least a 6 out of 10. How many voters is this?

Puerto Rico had a July 2007 population estimate of 3.94 million. However, Puerto Rico is a young country; roughly 30 percent of Puerto Ricans are under age 18. That leaves 2.76 million Puerto Ricans who are old enough to vote; 46 percent of that total would be 1.27 million.

But saying you are going to vote is different than actually doing so -- particularly when the primaries are held on a Sunday afternoon and the polls are only open until 3 PM. What percentage of voters who say they're going to vote actually do?

We can get some clues about this from SurveyUSA polling in recent primaries. Characteristically, SurveyUSA discloses a lot of information about the way that they conduct their surveys, including the proportion of adults who wind up getting classified as "likely voters". In Pennsylvania, for example, SurveyUSA classified 39.4 percent of Pennsylvanian adults as likely voters in the Democratic primary, whereas in practice, 23.9 percent of Pennsylvanian adults actually voted. The ratio between these two numbers (23.9/39.4) is 60.7 percent, which is what we'll call the follow-through rate.



The follow-through rates have ranged from 34.7 percent in New York to 64.0 percent in Indiana (they have tended to be higher in recent primaries). Does this mean, by the way, that SurveyUSA is identifying too many likely voters? Not necessarily, because unless you know which voters to screen out, you might throw the wrong voters out of your sample and wind up doing more harm than good.

In any event, the fact that SurveyUSA uses a relatively lax likely voter screen is helpful because that's also what GQR is using; there are no questions, for example, about prior voting behavior. In fact, GQR did not even ask voters whether they were registered, so their screen was probably too lax. But this is more or less an apples to apples comparison.

And as such, taking the high and low end of the range, we'd estimate that somewhere between 34.7 percent and 64.0 percent of Puerto Rico's 1.27 million "likely voters" will actually turn out to vote. That would represent a turnout of between 441,000 and 813,000.

Intuitively, this seems like a pretty reasonable range. Puerto Rican officials expect a turnout of about 500,000. Joe Sestak, who might be echoing the expectations of the Clinton camp, says 450,000 to 500,000. Puerto Rican elections expert Manuel Alvarez-Rivera guesses 600,000. The record for turnout in a Democratic primary is 870,000, when Ted Kennedy made a visit to the island in his challenge to Jimmy Carter. So there are a lot of numbers coming up in that mid-to-high six figures range.

Unfortunately for Clinton, this is probably not the margin she would need to win the +Florida version of the popular vote count. Presently, Obama holds a lead of 273,877 votes if Florida (but not Michigan) is counted for Senator Clinton. Obama is likely to net about 25 or 30 thousand votes between Montana and South Dakota, so we'll round that number up to 300,000. That's how many votes Clinton will need to win in Puerto Rico to lay a claim on this version of the popular vote.

The problem is that if turnout is only 500,000, Clinton would need to win by 60 points (e.g. 80-20) in order to secure that margin. And that just ain't going to happen. 20 points? 25 points? Possible, considering how little anyone knows about this primary. 30 points? Who knows. But 60 points isn't going to happen.

Even if turnout got up to the 870,000 number from the Kennedy-Carter election, Clinton would still need to win by about 34 points to net 300,000 votes out of her effort. That seems like a stretch.

Moreover, there may be something of an inverse relationship between turnout and Clinton's performance. The GQR poll says that Clinton's margin is 19 points among likely voters, but only 13 points among all voters. She's also outfundraised Obama in Puerto Rico about 2:1, which suggests that she has more support among the island's mainland-connected elites. So if Clinton wants to maximize her percentage of the vote, she might hope for a lowish turnout. However, Clinton not only needs to maximize her percentage of the vote; she also needs to maximize turnout. And that could be a problem for her because it looks like the percentage of Obama voters goes up as you drill down deeper into the population.

31 comments

Anonymous said...

Seems to make sense. You assume implicitly that those who are UNLIKELY voters won't vote. This is reasonable especially if those respondents say that they do not expect to vote in the election. This is sometimes reinforced by the fact that they're not registered.

Anonymous said...

The popular vote count that she's been using includes Michigan. Ridiculous? Yes. But she doesn't care.

I did some math with the exit polls and found that Obama could claim 70% of the vote for Uncommitted (he could probably claim up to 80%) Anyway, adding those 165,000 from Uncommitted Michigan and 30,000 votes from South Dakota and Montana, and the number I came up with for his lead was 130,000.

In other words, if she nets 130,000 votes, she would be able to claim the popular vote from the perspective of including Michigan. I actually DON'T think she will net that much. I think turnout will be around 700,000 and she will win by what the poll suggest (around 15 points). Basically she nets about 100,000 votes. I really consider this a best case scenario for her. I can see turnout being lower but not higher. And I can see her margin being smaller but not really larger one. Obama is advertising quite heavily and Puerto Rico has a large Afro-caribbean population.

So, even by that COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS metric (including Michigan) I do not think Hilary will be able to claim the popular vote.

Anonymous said...

What a delightfully ironic conundrum for Clinton...

Win by a big margin with a low turnout to gain more delegates, only to find your popular vote argument gone, and you're still behind in delegates.

Or win by a smaller margin with a big turnout to drive up the popular vote argument, and find you're still behind in delegates.

Anonymous said...

I thought I should probably clarify a few things about my comments above on Obama's claim on Uncommitted. I actually wrote a whole diary on it (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/28/143759/581/501/524273)

But basically, Uncommitted got 237,000 votes. According to the MSNBC exit polls for Michigan, the people who would have voted for Obama if he was on the ballot were three time as many as the Edwards supporters (35% compared to 12%). Of these Obama supporters 79% voted Uncommitted (18% voted for Hillary). For Edwards, only 57% voted Uncommitted.

In other words, upwards to 85-90% of the people who voted Uncommitted were Obama supporters. He can claim that 70% of the vote from Uncommitted is his without anyone being able to really challenge it, so that's 165,000 votes. If he claimed 80%, the number goes up to about 190,000.

So, when we follow Hillary's metric (using FL. and Michigan), Barack's lead is anywhere from 110,00 to 140,000. If he gains 25,000 from South Dakota and Montana, then in order to Hillary to pass him in this count, she would need 135,000 to 165,000 (depending on how much of Uncommitted Obama wants to claim).

Again, I don't think she will actually net that many votes.

Jonny said...

In an interesting new poll, if Europe could vote they would strongly go with Obama. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?view=CAMPAIGN&grid=A1NoGoogle&pg=/ETHtml/content/portal/2008/05/29/U_S_election:_World_poll_results_in_full.jhtml
I wonder if demographic voting patterns in America translate into other countries.

Rasmus said...

jonny,

in Germany not even the COnservatives like the REpublicans. I never met a McCain supporter and very few Clinton supporters.
There was a german poll about that that showed that the Democrats would get 72% of the vote and the Republicans 18% or so, and in the Democratic PRimary Race Obama would win with about 65-35%.

Jonny said...

It is the same here in Britain, Rasmus. In a other poll the large majority of Conservative Party voters support Obama and the Liberal Democrats are the most enthusiastic, unsurprisingly.

hosertohoosier said...

A similar poll was conducted in Canada, and found Obama would win 32-18 (50% undecided) either as a Liberal or Conservative against our own politicians (and Obama won 2-1 among Democrats abroad in Canada).

I think the international polls are mostly reflective of name recognition and an extremely narrow range of issues. Do a google trends Clinton vs. Obama race (a reasonable international comparison, that admittedly doesn't count the developing world). Obama kills Clinton.

Clinton's strengths are in grasp of policy and domestic issues - and that isn't going to translate well to indifferent Canadians or Europeans. By contrast, Obama is the vaguely leftish and inspirational candidate we are supposed to like - and that is something that is much easier to convey (plus Obama's better looking).

hosertohoosier said...

Oh and don't forget who reads the papers, and specifically the stuff that covers foreign elections. It is the "well-informed" upper middle class, which form the core of Obama's base in America... That is why most of those international polls are problematic.

Mugsy said...

PR really does seem a wild card - I guess the disparity of opinion on matters like turnout indicate the vast uncertainty of what is going to happen. If it goes massively for Hillary, look for the "Obama can't court Hispanics" mantra to be touted by HRC's camp.

On another note, what's with the Michigan polls? Another with McCain leading, but again upwards of 15% undecided. Are there really that many folks who don't know how they will vote??

Rasmus said...

New Rasmussen NY poll:
Clinton +30
Obama +19

50% of NY Democrats believe Clinton should drop out, 52% of Republicans want her to stay in.

Anonymous said...

It's actually interesting to see the Obama/Clinton spread with and without an LV screen. Where there are other polls published like that?
The impression is that elsehere, LV would be better for Obama, not for Clinton. Why is PR the opposite? Who are those low-information PR Obama supporters?

Anonymous said...

Poblano - you, more than anyone, should continue to point out in every analysis that there is no such thing as a popular vote in a primary.

If it were a relevant metric, there would be no such thing as a caucus state, let alone the FOURTEEN that decided to hold them.

Anonymous said...

The popular vote is such nonsense. If Hillary Clinton and her supporters use Puerto Rico in the popular as how America thinks and anyone believes it, then we as a nation are dumber than I thought. My mother happens to be from a US territory (not PR) so I am kind of partial to them, but come on. If Hillary Clinton and her supporters want to use Puerto Rico which can't vote in the general in her popular vote total and not count the state I live in, Washington (a caucus state) which does, there is definitely something wrong here.

Mikey said...

I may be alone in this but I think it's reasonable for Clinton to include Michigan in the popular vote total if you credit all the "uncommitted" votes to Obama.

Giving Obama those votes produces a net of about +90,000 votes in MI for Clinton, which means she'd have to win PR by about 210,000 to make a credible claim to the popular vote.

Seems like a high bar to clear.

Kevin said...

The relatively new book Nudge describes another reason why poll numbers overshoot the real number: According to the authors, people who have been asked whether or not they will vote are more likely to actually vote than people who have not been asked (even if they were exactly as likely to vote beforehand). Being asked activates some sort of psychological planning trigger or something.

Day Off said...

I'm hoping for a Clinton win of under 20% and a turnout of under 600K - If Obama then wins SD & Montana by double digits - one would hope that would silence the Clinton supporters. It's pretty crazy considering Clinton's constant yammering about how she's "won the big states" that she now seems to be counting on a popular vote win in... Puerto Rico (which as everyone knows doesn't even vote in the general election) --- it's just absolutely nuts.

Day Off said...

I would also like to add that I agree with the commenters who are stating that the whole popular vote metric argument is insane. This nomination process was never about the popular vote. You just can't add votes from different types of primaries (open, closed, semi-open) and particularly caucuses (14 states!) and primaries where neither candidate campaigned (florida & michigan) & and one primary where one candidate ran basically unopposed (michigan.) It's just absolute madness that people are paying any credence to the popular vote argument. It's such a deceitful ploy by the Clinton campaign - it reminds me so much of George W. Bush & Rovian politics. It's elitism of the worst kind - They are misleading people because they figure folks are too stupid to know any better. And unfortunately (in the case of many Clinton supporters) this is true.

Anonymous said...

The Michigan DNC chairman said there were 30,000 write-in votes that were thrown away since the election wasn't supposed to count. That's why people were told to vote for uncommitted. They considered those votes as mostly for Obama. It really bothers me that HRC keeps saying she won the popular vote, by counting only ballots with her name printed on them regardless of context.

Anonymous said...

Lot of you are saying PR shouldn't count because it's a territory. Hard to reconcile that stance with "playing by the rules", since the DNC says PR does count. If you personally don't want to count them because they won't be a factor in the general, then don't count any of the solid red- and blue-states either because they won't matter to the result either. At least be consistent in your counting or lack thereof.

As to the 275,000 votes Clinton needs, last I checked RCP it was 165,000 including Florida. Your number includes caucus estimates. If you're going to drop Michigan because no one knows how many people really voted for Obama (and RCP included several MI estimates in their popular vote spreadsheet a few weeks ago), then counting caucuses that won't reveal how many people showed up at all and whom they supported strikes me as cherry-picking which soft numbers you want to include. In any case, the 165,000 mark is the only hard popular vote number we have now that the Rules committee has validated the Florida primary, and it is definitely the number Clinton will be using. Your analysis should be based on that if you are attempting to predict whether Clinton will claim the popular vote after PR.

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bingyi said...

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平平 said...

^^ nice blog!! ^@^

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平平 said...

^^ nice blog!! thanks a lot! ^^

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租車公司 said...

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