There seem to be two fundamental explanations as to why Hillary Clinton continues to campaign so vigorously while her chances of securing the nomination are virtually nil. The first is that she knows that this remains her last and best chance to win the Presidency. The second is that she knows she is not going to win, but is trying to undermine Brack Obama in order to ensure that he loses the election against John McCain -- and that she'll be able to step in come 2012.
I very much side with the former explanation. For one thing, as hard as she as fought for the nomination -- and as dirty as some would say she has played -- there is a pretty clear line in the sand between doing everything in your power to win in 2008 and actually trying to ensure the defeat of your rival to set yourself up for 2012. The former is Clintonian; the latter is Nixonian and conspiratorial. But the more fundamental reason is this: I don't think there's any reason to expect that Hillary Clinton would be especially viable in 2012. In fact, I can think of five reasons why she would not be:
1. She'll get blamed if Obama loses (everyone will). It is hard to imagine a more frustrating set of circumstances for the Democrats. Firstly, the sitting Vice President wins the popular vote, but loses a disputed electoral vote at a time of peace and prosperity. Then, the Democrats are unable to defeat a President whose disapproval scores are in the high 40s and low 50s at the time of the election. And finally, the Democrats are unable to win an election against a mediocre Republican nominee in spite of a 10-point advantage in party identification and the presence of both a war and a recession, each of which are blamed on their opponents.
If Barack Obama loses the election, there will be a lot of blame to go around. And some if it, however fairly, will fall at the feet of the Clintons. This would be particularly the case if Clinton actually were trying to undermine the nominee and there was the sense that Clinton had not supported him (to reiterate, I think it's somewhere between premature and ridiculous to assert that this is their angle).
You think black voters, for instance, are going to go running back into the arms of the Clintons? One thing that's been forgotten is that black voters did not reflexively gravitate toward Barack Obama from the outset. Instead, Clinton began the cycle with something like a 60/40 edge among them. But Clinton lost their votes every bit as much as Obama won them. And there is one and only one surefire way for them to reconcile that rift: for the Clintons to enthusiastically support Barack Obama, and for him to become the 44th President of the United States. I would guess that, if Obama loses the election and the combatants for the 2012 nomination are Hillary Clinton and Mark Warner, Warner would have 70 percent of the black community's support by Labor Day.
2. Read My Lips: No New Rationale. The handful of candidates that have come back from a previous defeat to win the Presidency -- and essentially all of them were Republicans, not Democrats -- invariably had something fundamentally different about the electoral landscape working for them the second time around. Richard Nixon benefited from the backlash to the counterculture (and the absence of a Democratic nominee as compelling as John F. Kennedy). Ronald Reagan no longer had the chore of campaigning against his own party's incumbent President. George H.W. Bush had spent eight years in the Vice President's chair under an exceptionally popular president (as had Al Gore in his losing effort).
It is hard to think of an analogous condition emerging for Hillary Clinton between now and the next election. After all, while this is Hillary Clinton's first attempt at the Presidency, she has both the burden and the blessing of her husband's legacy. Clinton has proudly run on that legacy, and she has made an awfully big deal of her experience for a candidate who is relatively lacking in it. The implicit case being made is the one for a third Clinton term rather than a first Hillary term. If (when) she is finally defeated by Barack Obama, there will be the sense that the Clintonian arc has finally run its course.
When Clinton's gas tax gambit failed to achieve its intended results in North Carolina and Indiana, that may have been as clear a signal as we were going to get that the Clinton brand of politics is a step too slow for the Internet age. That does not mean that Barack Obama's new way will necessarily become the dominant technology. He could well turn out to be the Betamax to Mark Warner's VHS. But Clinton will, at the very least, have to reinvent and rebrand herself, lest she become today's Blockbuster Video.
I can think of two ways that Clinton might attempt this. The first would be to figuratively, and perhaps even literally, divorce herself from her husband. Rodham for president in oh-twelve. One cannot begin to contemplate the probability of this, although the psychodrama of it all would compel the national spotlight. The second way would be for her to emerge as a real champion of the Democratic cause in the Senate. This would require focus and hard work -- two things that Clinton is certainly capable of (although Carl Bernstein thinks that she is indifferent at best about this prospect).
But it would also require the support of senior leadership within the party. For whatever happens to Barack Obama, the 111th Congress is likely to be a fairly happy place for a Democrat to be. They will, in all likelihood, have expanded their majority, perhaps even to a filibuster-proof margin in the Senate. They will benefit from an unpopular war and a sluggish economy. They would likely be able to accomplish more under a President McCain than under a President Bush, for the simple fact that McCain still has some political capital left to lose. There is no reason to believe that the Senate Democrats would roll over and play dead for Hillary Clinton, particularly when:
3. She has burned too many bridges within the party leadership. If Clinton's goal is to become the new Ted Kennedy, that is harder to accomplish when Ted Kennedy is still alive and kicking, and happens to hate your guts. Calling Bill Richardson 'Judas', or saying that that John Kerry is 'dead to us': these are not the sort of actions that a political franchise takes when it is concerned about its long-term future. Clinton's comments to USA Today, which triggered the Kennedy outburst, may ultimately be remembered as the moment that her campaign, having committed the crime, jumped into the White Ford Bronco and tried to make the best of it. If superdelegates are still around in 2012, she is not likely to have the head start with them that she did in this cycle.
4. She's a creature of the partisan environment. If you're a Democrat who buys that Barack Obama is electorally vulnerable, there are two subtexts you can read into that. The first is approximately this:
"This is the most favorable landscape that the Democrats have had in years! We can't afford to screw this up!"
The second, expressed to some extent in this John Judis article, is really just the opposite:
"This is the most favorable landscape that the Democrats have had in years! We can't afford to miss the opportunity to nominate some who [politically, racially] represents the party as we've always wanted it to be!".
But whichever framing you prefer, this argument is really more salient to Hillary Clinton's candidacy. The reason is that while Obama has a fighting chance against McCain among independent voters, Clinton routinely loses that category, and often by large margins (although her numbers have improved recently). And she wins few friends among Republicans. Mathematically, the only way that such a candidate can win an election is if her party has a substantial edge in partisan identification -- which, as it happens, the Democrats presently do. But if you believe in the median voter theorem (and I largely do), that edge may not be very long lasting. Instead, the Republicans will tact to the left, giving up some ground on policy, but winning back some support. There will be some legislative victories for the Democrats, but if the Republicans repair their image in the process, there will no longer be the raison d'être for a candidate whose whole appeal is in her refusal to compromise.
5. The Reader's Digest Problem. I have a friend -- a Clinton supporter, actually -- who joked to me that Barack Obama shouldn't worry about his current polling, because by the time November rolls around, half of John McCain's supporters will be dead. Gallows humor aside, Hillary Clinton has a little bit of this problem as well. And I do not think it is merely a matter of her supporters tending to be older than Barack Obama's. Obama's argument is at its core a generational argument, and Clinton is that the waning edge of that generation gap. I would imagine that a fair amount of her support comes from people who became wealthy during the Clinton era, or got married and started a family during the Clinton era, or migrated to this country during the Clinton era. As those experiences fade from memory, so will some of her support.
If Barack Obama becomes the nominee and loses, there will be good arguments for giving him another try in 2016 or 2020. He will certainly be young enough, he will magically have solved his experience problem, and he will benefit from a younger generation tends to be both more racially tolerant and more racially diverse. For Clinton, however, there is no day better than today.
5.12.2008
Five Reasons why 2012 is a No-Go for Clinton
by Nate Silver @ 2:35 AM
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29 comments
nice!
The Bloomberg "hate your guts" link isn't working.
Speaking of 2012...
If the Democrats lose the White House yet again in November, there likely will be a change in the nomination rules (You allude to this with your comment about superdelegates still being around then).
What would that new landscape look like, though? Here's a look at several of the plans that are being bandied about within the parties.
As someone who has studied Median Voter Theorem quite a bit I can this: The advantage may not be able to be maintained over the long run, but what an Obama presidency will do is bring two-dimensional MVT into play. The two axis model is far more friendly to super majorities.
Excellent reasoning. Certainly, with both Dem candidates, I've tried to figure out different scenarios and motivations for their choices, as a committed skeptic (Or as I prefer 'political pragmatist').
And I concluded that 99% of the gaffes were gaffes, not demonstrations of sexism or racism. And the Clintons simply enjoy campaigning as much as - if not more than - governing. Bill, for example, has always expressed admiration for hard campaigners, like Nixon, who's anathema to most Dems.
I do think one thing could be fundamentally different in 2012, however. If Obama wins, the economic mess may take longer than 2 years to sort out. THen he could lose Congress to the GOP in 2010 and be stymied with any new legislation, reaching the end of his term with low ratings.
That would re-open the door for a second Hillary run. She does have four years to heal the rifts with core constituencies. I'm not convinced she's progressive enough to do so, but coupled with some of your scenarios, a second run remains potentially viable if the economy proves as stuck as I think it might.
Actually, if Obama's numbers don't improve soon, it might be in his best interests to withdraw from the race and let Clinton run against McCain. If he withdraws and poisons her campaign, by blaming her directly for destroying the party, she will lose badly in November (when the black vote goes 90-10 against her in all those swing states).
Then he can spend four years as 'president in waiting', while working with a Dem congress to pass 'broadly supported' legislation (meaning McCain is forced to sign Dem bills), and blaming 'Bush's failed policies, and those who continue to support them' for the wars and recession, without really 'going negative' on McCain.
He could also quit his church, and join a evangelical mega church like Willow Creek, which would position himself better with the center leaning evangelicals (like those who support environmental action). He could also take a more moderate stance on 'womans' issues like abortion.
No one would dare run against him for the Dem nomination and the Republicans would be forced to put McCain up again, despite him loosing even more support by then, or risk having a split party themselves.
I basically agree, poblano, with your larger point that the notion that Hillary Clinton is now running for 2012 doesn't make any sense, even from what seem to be the sometimes warped perspective of her campaign.
A couple thoughts about your subpoints (and one about an earlier comment)....
1) The handful of candidates that have come back from a previous defeat to win the Presidency -- and essentially all of them were Republicans, not Democrats -- invariably had something fundamentally different about the electoral landscape working for them the second time around.
Shouldn't the comparison be to candidates who've lost the nomination and come back to win it? Surely, if Clinton were plotting a 2012 campaign, her first thought would be the nomination, not the presidency. And under this scenario, she would of course not have been a losing general election candidate. Here there is an excellent Democratic example: Al Gore.
In addition, a number of losing Democratic presidential candidates came back to recapture their party's nomination: William Jennings Bryan and Adlai Stevenson are the most recent examples.
2) John Judis's argument (quoted in passing) seems bizarre to me. If Obama represents all that Democrats have wanted the party to be politically, so does Hillary Clinton. With the single, admittedly significant, exception of the Iraq vote, the two are nearly ideologically and politically identical.
Despite Obama's race--and the bizarre accusations predictably tossed at him by the GOP (and echoed by the Clinton campaign)--Obama is exactly the kind of centrist whom the Democrats have tended to nominate since 1976. If this were a gamble made possible in a favorable year (and, FWIW, I don't think it's such a gamble), it would be a silly candidacy to blow a party's political capital on.
3) Anonymous, now that it's clear that the world has not bought the Clinton talkingpoint, unsupported by any hard numbers, that Obama is a weak candidate (or even a weaker candidate than Clinton), these fantasies about Obama suddenly deciding that he's a weak candidate are particularly bizarre.
If Obama runs and loses, there will be strong arguments for and against him running again in 2012.
Racially, some will say, we tried that and it didn't work and others will say, we tried that and it almost worked and voters have had four years to deal with it.
Personally, while he will have been branded a loser, he will have had four years to deal with the experience question, and he has far more fans who will come of age in the next four years while his opponents have far more fans who will pass away in that time.
I think Obama will win in 2008, but win or lose, he is the early favorite for 2012.
I guess the question is, where are Hillary's chances better: to become the nominee now, or to become the nominee in 2012 if Obama loses now?
Hillary's chance of becoming the nominee now is approximately zero. So the Clintons must know that, however slender their chances in 2012, they'll can't help but be better then than they are this year. If so, it follows that Hillary is staying in the race not to beat Obama now, but to damage him and position herself in 2012.
One other explanation: the deeper the divisions she creates, and the closer to the convention she gets before pulling out, the better her argument that they only thing that can heal such deep divisions with so little time before the general is a unity ticket with VP candidate Hillary.
But either way, her objective at this point is to damage Obama entirely for her own gain.
Ugh.
I'm trying to imagine a better way to go down in popular memory as a complete doofus than to rack up a 170-delegate lead for the nomination, backed by 1.5 million donors, and then say nah, she can have it.
Ben's right -- the next President will inherit recession worsened by appalling consumer debt, an untenable fiscal stance, little room for the Fed to help, and the task of unwinding massive imperial overstretch. Gonna be hard for anyone to come out of that looking good.
2008 has been a generational election. Some may still point to identity politics, but its more a rise in Milleniums and X-er support that has really carried Obama forward.
In Generational Strauss and Howe-speak, Obama is a cusp-Nomad (Xer/13er). There are arguments that 2005/2008 is a 4T turning shift much like 1929/1932 with good arguments that FDR (over Al Smith) was also a cusp-Nomad.
The question for 2008 is - is there enough of voter realignment? It may be close. By 2012, there will be no question.
If Obama loses the general election then the one and only candidate in 2012 will be Al Gore.
I think at that point he'd HAVE to run.
Plus she'll be 69 in a year when people will be asking "What the fuck were the 90s?"
I don't think Al Gore will run in 2012. Or 2011, or 1010 ... that's the problem. He needs to run.
The first anonymous is a real genious. Briliant analyses.
If Barack (somehow) loses in 2008, while he will certainly be able to point to more experience in the senate by 2012, he will also have made more senate votes that can be used against him.
It's a hazard of any longtime member of the senate these days, I think. Remember Kerry.
Obama is kind of at a sweet spot in his senate career - long enough that he has enough good votes to point to, but short enough that nothing easily twistable into damaging rhetoric has come up.
There is a closer parallel here which I think everyone is overlooking. When was the last time a Democrat won the WH only to inherit from the GOP a fiscal and policy mess consisting of the fiscal and cultural costs of a failed war, red ink in the federal budget, a stagflationary economy, record high oil prices, reduced US power and influence abroad, and the constitutional hangover from an imperial presidency.
Answer: Jimmy Carter in 1976.
If Obama wins in Nov it will take smarts, courage, guts and sheer luck to avoid repeating Carter's presidency. I think he can do it, but the odds are not altogether in his favor.
If Obama is unable to work with a Dem controlled Congress and falls in popularity the way that Carter did, Hillary can run against him trying to unseat a sitting President just as Ted Kennedy did in 1980. It didn't work for Ted in 1980 but then he didn't come within a whisker of being the nominee in 1976, either.
If you see the Clintons as staying in the race from this point forward for purely selfish reasons, it makes more sense to me that they are anticipating a failed Obama presidency rather than his loss in Nov 2008.
If you want to ascribe really sinsister motives to them, you could go farther and speculate that they are hoping to prevent him from obtaining a broad mandate for change in this election in order to enhance the probabilty of that outcome. This could be seen as revenge for his remarks comparing Bill Clinton with Ronald Reagan which were briefly controversial before the NV primary.
First, to Pablano: I've only recently discovered this site, and I like it a lot. Obviously for the numerical analysis, but also for your writing (the white Ford Bronco cracked me up).
Second, to I Broke My Right Wing: could you expand on 2-axis MVT, or point me to a tutorial? Google didn't help.
Third, on Clinton's motives: the possibility not mentioned is that she's continuing to campaign for reasons of present leverage, not future presidencies. She might want to be VP, senate majority leader, or lead author of the health-care bill (I'm hoping for the last, it's where her talents would be best-used). If she concedes now, she loses all leverage.
Overall, I agree that she's not viable in 2012 EXCEPT as laid out by anonymous above me, if Obama wins but is severely weakened by the inherited terribleness that is our present situation.
peace,
lilnev
Petraeus 2012
Has anyone considered that she is staying in the race to HELP Obama?
It's too late to take her name off of the ballots. Obama is favored in MT, OR, and SD, but WV and KY are predicted to be landslides for Clinton. I haven't seen polling on PR, but suppose she's favored there.
The media finally came to the understanding after IN/NC that the nomination is almost impossible to take from Obama.
If Clinton wins 3 (or even 2) of the 6 remaining primaries against the Party's nominee despite pulling out of the race, that is going to hurt Obama.
After polls close on the 20th, this argument dries up. Right now, though, it's clear Obama benefits from not losing to a withdrawn candidate.
I have often felt that HRC is not that good a candidate -- that her strength during this election cycle comes from the perception she is aristocracy. Should she lose, the ruler will have no clothes, and she will not seem nearly as attractive in four or eight years. This is her last best shot.
There seems to be some anger against HRC Obamiacs for her continuing campaign. There is feeling that she is only weakening him.
We remember the Teflon prez reagan. The problem is that teflon only remains no stick if treat it special. Barack is a dream candidate only if you never wake up.
It will be Chelsea Clinton in 2016 (the year she reaches eligibility) or 2020, which would make a better slogan -- Chelsea 2020!
my thoughts is that in 2012 a 70 year old Joe Biden will not run for a 2nd term which will allow Sen Obama to select his "heir" perhaps Keane, or McCaskill to run as his 2012 running mate, setting them up as the Democratic front runner in 2016...that is if Sen Obama had two successful terms
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