5.13.2008

Clinton wins West Virginia

I'm not planning on extensive coverage tonight, but we'll leave this thread up as a placeholder.

9:44 PM.. On second thought, I think the optics might look a little strange if Obama rolled out a big name superdelegate tomorrow. I don't think he wants to create the perception that he's trying to push her out of the race. On the other hand, Obama's media narrative is not all that bad tonight considering Clinton's margin of victory, he picked up a good talking point with Travis Childers' win in Mississippi, and his polling has looked good in Oregon. So, there's really not a whole lot to be lost simply by waiting for a week. But I do think we'll see a continued stream of not-so-big-name superdelegates toward Obama, in order to steal a few headlines.

Also, Clinton now has 77.5% of the two-way vote in WV-3. It looks like she will get that fifth delegate.

9:17 PM.. Clinton now has 76.8% of the two-way vote in WV-3.

8:56 PM.. As of about 15 minutes ago, I had it:

Clinton 31540 (66.8% of two-way vote), Obama 15661 in CD-1
Clinton 23491 (65.2%), Obama 12541 in CD-2
Clinton 16668 (73.8%), Obama 5914 in CD-3

So, it looks like it will come down to the wire as to whether Clinton picks up the 5th delegate from CD-3.

8:17 PM. In its polite, if somewhat perfunctory tone as well as in its substance, this really really sounds like a speech made by a woman with her eyes on the Vice Presidency.

7:52 PM. Among Democrats and independents who voted in this primary, 53 percent say they'd vote for Obama in November, as compared with 27 percent for McCain, and 17 percent who would sit out. That doesn't sound very good for Obama. But a SurveyUSA poll in February had him winning West Virginia Democrats just 48-39. Granted, that poll also had him losing West Virgina by 18 points. But because more than half of the West Virginia electorate identifies as Democrat, a candidate could tolerate a defection rate as high as 25 percent and still compete in the state.

7:05 PM. Exit polls imply a spread of 65-32-3 for Clinton. But, as any of you who read this blog regularly should know, the exit polls have tended to overestimate Barack Obama's support. That wasn't the case in Indiana or North Carolina, and it's possible that Edison-Mitofsky changed their methodology -- we'll know soon enough.

The two things to watch are turnout and the disposition of WV-3. The exit polls have Clinton winning Southwestern West Virginia, which should overlap heavily with WV-3, by a margin of 70-26. That's 73 percent of the two-way (Obama + Clinton) vote, so she'll need to outperform those exits by just a couple of points to hit 75 percent and take a fifth delegate from the district. WV-1 appears that it should definitely go 4-2 for Clinton. There's an outside chance that Obama can salvage a 3-3 split in WV-2 -- he performed comparatively well in Charleston -- but he will probably lose too many votes in the more rural parts of that district.

It occurs to me that my model may have underestimated turnout -- but not for the reason that it had been before. The issue is that we estimate turnout as a percentage of the Kerry vote. But in West Virginia, there are a lot of Democrats who did not vote for John Kerry (nor for Al Gore). Specifically, 30 percent of West Virginian Democrats voted for George W. Bush in 2004, which I'm pretty sure is the highest figure in the country. If Clinton has turned out those lapsed Democrats -- and she's the sort of candidate who can -- the turnout may beat our expectations.

68 comments

Anonymous said...

Maybe exit polls have reverse Bradley effect?

There may be some WV voters who would never admit they voted for a black guy!

Anonymous said...

Wolfie just quoted some exit poll numbers that are consistent with your conjecture, Poblano.

I don't recall the precise breakdown but when asked who they would vote for if Obama is the nominee,they split roughly 35% would vote for Obama, 35% would vote for McCain, and the rest would not vote. So this is telling me that a lot of those 2004 Bush voters did indeed vote for Clinton today.

Adam Galas said...

With 3% reporting Obama is 22% behind 58-36.

Adam Galas said...

With 4% reporting, Obama is down by 24%, 59-35.

Adam Galas said...

With 9% reporting, Obama is down 26%, 60-34.

Adam Galas said...

With 10% reporting, Obama down 29%, 61-32.

Anonymous said...

Who really cares how many WV Democrats would vote for McCain? Obama isn't going to win the state regardless.

Write off WV. Move on.

Adam Galas said...

With 12% reporting, 60-33, Obama down by 27!

Adam Galas said...

With 16% reporting, Obama down by 29, 61-32.

Adam Galas said...

With 18% reporting, Obama down by 31, 62-31.

Adam Galas said...

With 19% reporting Clinton is gaining steam, up 33% 63-30.

Anonymous said...

"Who really cares how many WV Democrats would vote for McCain? Obama isn't going to win the state regardless."

The point only bears on Poblano's post above that he may have underestimated the turnout by looking only at the 2004 Kerry vote as the baseline, when he should have included Dems who voted for Bush as well but who will also have voted in the Dem primary today. Decent chance Poblano missed the turnout by quite a large margin, and of course I was rooting for him to get that spot on.

On the other hand, his estimate of the % received by Clinton, Obama, and Edwards is looking pretty good right now. But there's lot more votes to count yet.

Adam Galas said...

With 20% reporting, Hillary's lead is steady at 33, 63-30.

Her pop vote lead is 25,000, so extrapolating to 100%, she wins by 125,000.

Pretty close to what was predicted on this site.

Adam Galas said...

21% reporting, still 33% lead by Clinton, 25.8K lead in votes.

Anonymous said...

Poblano -- I agree with you about her speech. Running for VP.

Are we really seeing 6-7% vote for Edwards? That's implied by the totals that have been reported so far. What source are you looking at for details?

Adam Galas said...

22% reporting, still 63-30 with Clinton up 27,000 votes.

Anonymous said...

Poblano, how do the Edwards votes affect the threshold for delegate allocation? It's possible that without getting any delegates himself he can help Obama pick up one or two, right?

Adam Galas said...

23% reporting, 63-30, Clinton leads by just under 28k.

I am useing CNN.com as my source.

Adam Galas said...

24% reporting, 63-30, Clinton's lead in the vote is 29.5K.

Adam Galas said...

26% reporting, 63-30, Clinton leads by 31,500.

Extrapolating out, it appears she will win by 121,500 votes by the end of the night.

Adam Galas said...

28% reporting, 64-29, Clinton by 35, leading by 34,699 votes.

Extrapolating to 100% she will win by 123,925

marathon said...

Down in Mississippi, Childers is up 54-46 with half the vote in.

Three Democrat wins in three deeply Republican districts.

November is going to be a bloodbath.

Adam Galas said...

30% reporting, 64-29, Clinton by 39,281, will win by 130,936

Adam Galas said...

32% reporting, 64-29, Clinton leads by 40,762, will win by 127,381

Adam Galas said...

35% reporting, 64-29, Clinton by 44,660, will win by 127,600

Adam Galas said...

36% reporting, 64-29, Clinton by 46,190, will win by 128,306

Adam Galas said...

37% reporting, 64-29, Clinton by 48,355, will win by 130,689

Adam Galas said...

39% reporting, 65-28, 37 point lead for Clinton, she leads by 52,541, will win by 134,721

Adam Galas said...

40% reporting, 64-29, Clinton by 53,836, will win by 134,590

Adam Galas said...

41% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by56,868, will win by 138,702

Adam Galas said...

42% reporting, 65-28, Clinton byn 58,637 will win by 139,611

Adam Galas said...

43% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 59,547 will win by 138,481

Adam Galas said...

44% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 59,709, will win by 135,702

Adam Galas said...

45% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 60,694, will win by 134,876

Anonymous said...

Edwards seems to be holding his 6 to 7% of the total votes.

Adam Galas said...

47 % reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 63313, 134,708

Adam Galas said...

49% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 66970, will win by 136,673

Adam Galas said...

50% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 68275, will win by 136,550

Adam Galas said...

54% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 71,682, will win by 132,744

Adam Galas said...

55% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 73992, will win by 134530

Adam Galas said...

56% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 73769, will win by 131730

Adam Galas said...

57% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 77438, will win by 135,856

Adam Galas said...

58% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 77839, will win by 134,205

Adam Galas said...

59% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 79,256, will win by 134322

Adam Galas said...

61% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 83,118, will win by 136,259

Adam Galas said...

63% reporting, 65-28, Clinton by 85,385, will win by 135532

Adam Galas said...

64% reporting, 66-27, Clinton now up by 39%, winning by 87380, will win by 136,531

Adam Galas said...

68% reporting, 66-27, Clinton by 93,666, will win by 137,744

Another Mike said...

Your Clinton by 39 is looking pretty good right now. Have you looked at county results to see if this pattern should hold?

Anonymous said...

I agree with the suggestion that Obama will come out with his April fundraising numbers. That will be less "pushy" than a superdelegate rollout. At the same time, proof of continued grassroots small donor support should prevent any delegate defections.

Adam Galas said...

69% reporting, 66-27, Clinton by 94769, will win by 137,346

Adam Galas said...

71% reporting, 66-27, Clinton up by 98,864, will win by 139,245

Anonymous said...

I think it's pretty effing amazing that Poblano's prediction of a 39 point victory is so spot on. I imagine his figure for Edwards was mainly a WAG, but when you put the three predictions together this is a damn amazing regression prediction! Every bit as good as the ones for Indiana, NC, and PA.

In short, nothing changed! The media narrative has perhaps changed a bit, but there was no change on the ground. WV is extremely highly predictable given what was known about previous primary states.

Anonymous said...

Poblano - you're a fookin genius - 39% right on the money with 71% reporting.

Adam Galas said...

76% reporting, 66-27, Clinton by 108014, will win by 142,124

Adam Galas said...

77% reporting, 67-26, Clinton now leads by 41, 114,089, will win by 148,167

Adam Galas said...

80% reporting, 67-26, Clinton by 118,979, will win by 148,724

Adam Galas said...

81% reporting, 67-26, Clinton by 121,058, will win by 149,454

Adam Galas said...

82% reporting, 67-26, Clinton by 121,878, will win by 148,632

Adam Galas said...

84% reporting, 67-26, Clinton by 125,995, will win by 148,229

Adam Galas said...

90% reporting, 67-26, Clinton by 132,141 will win by 146,823

Adam Galas said...

92% reporting, 67-26, Clinton by 136,530, will win by 148,402

Adam Galas said...

93% reporting, 67-26, Clinton by 137,035, will win by 147,350

Anonymous said...

This is becoming spooky: you consistently get the spread right, and the turnout seriously underestimated. This is funny, because you don't expect the two dimensions to be orthogonal. Higher turnout dilutes the dedicated base which, we tend to think, should help Clinton.

I see two ways to account for this.

1. The demographics are aligned in such a way that turnout is after all pretty much orthogonal to Obama/Clinton spread. There's enough dedicated base for Clinton; the effect is pretty small and may be reflected in the small tendency to underpredict Clinton.

2. Higher turnout does help Clinton; the spread is predicted so well because the higher turnout is canceled out with other effects.

I like option 2 because it suggests an elegant model: the apparent static nature of the campaign hides a richer structure, where Obama continuously, overall, makes progress, demographic-by-demographic (the "same people" become somewhat more likely to vote for him); but the rising wave of the campaign brings into play more and more demographics which, to begin with, would have been less inclined to vote for him - more and more low-information voters.

This is of more than academic interest, as it is quite possible that, over the next six months, a similar process might unfold with Obama against McCain: Obama's magnificent campaign would build more and more support and excitement - to have it eroded by a growing interest in the elections among those who tune in late, and care less for him.

Which option do you prefer Poblano? Are you going to address the strange apparent orthogonality of spread and turnout?

Adam Galas said...

95% reporting, 67-26, Clinton by 140,298

Anonymous said...

Hi Poblano
I have two questions... firstly how is your website traffic developing as the blogoshpere recognises 538 as the best place for US election predictions?

Secondly, are you aware of any recognition in the media that pollsters' services may no longer be required now that 538 is online?

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