Note: results revised slightly from original version to be somewhat more consistent/inclusive/conservative about which polls I was including.
Let's start by looking at the state of the popular vote, since those are the only metrics that Hillary Clinton has any realistic shot of winning.
Below is a table of the remaining primaries, and Clinton's projected margin of victory (or defeat) in each of them. The margins come from a straight, unweighted average of all polls that were released in those states since the Texas and Ohio primaries. I cheated in Montana, which doesn't have any polls, and plugged in a +10 for Obama.
The turnout estimates come from a regression model I ran at the state level, which attempts to explain the proportion of the 2004 John Kerry vote that has turned out in each primary. There were four factors, apart from the Kerry vote, that impacted these numbers:
1. Whether the primary is open or closed -- open primaries draw significantly more turnout.
2. The level of campaign activity in each state, as measured by the combined number of days spent by Obama and Clinton in that state in the 30 days prior to the election.
3. Whether the primary was held on Super Tuesday -- the Super Tuesday primaries drew somewhat less turnout than those contests held before or after Super Tuesday.
4. The percentage of African-American voters in each state -- African-Americans are turning out in somewhat larger numbers relative to their share of the Kerry vote.
Note that I had to guess at the level of campaign activity in each of the forthcoming states. My guesses were that Obama and Clinton will spend a combined 22 days in Indiana, 20 in North Carolina, 12 in Puerto Rico, 10 in West Virginia (note that Puerto Rico and West Virginia have a day on the calendar to themselves -- unlike the other states), 8 in Oregon, 6 in Kentucky, and 5 in each of Montana and South Dakota.
Also, I had to make an accommodation for Puerto Rico, since (obviously) John Kerry did not have any votes there. So I used was the vote total for Aníbal Acevedo Vilá, the winning candidate in the 2004 gubernatorial election (i.e. "President of the Island"). There are many different sorts of assumptions that one could reasonably make about turnout in Puerto Rico. As Jay Cost notes, Puerto Ricans have a tradition of high turnout; on the other hand, those have been in elections with Spanish-speaking candidates, who have built get-out-the-vote infrastructures on the island. You could probably come up with a number anywhere from about 300,000 to 1.2 million in Puerto Rico and have a reasonable justification for it; my number (about 800,000) passes my own personal sniff test.
If the current polling holds, the remaining primaries will be pretty much a wash; Clinton will gain a net total of maybe 70,000 votes and ten pledged delegates, give or take perhaps 50,000 because of the Puerto Rico turnout question. Somewhat obviously, this would not alter Obama's course to the nomination -- although it might slow it, depending on if and when Clinton decided to drop out.
How close would Clinton be in the various popular vote and delegate counts?
I have specified no fewer than 5 different versions of the popular vote count:
1. "DNC", which is the popular vote in all DNC-sanctioned contests, including allocations for the caucus states (IA, NV, ME and WA) that have yet to officially release popular vote estimates. This is otherwise known as the "Best Obama count".
2. "RCP", e.g. Real Clear Politics, which is the same as above but without the allocations in those four caucus states. There is really zero reason to use this count and to entirely disregard/disenfranchise that group of caucus states, but it is in fairly widespread use in the media, and so I have included it.
3. "DNC+1", e.g. the DNC count plus Florida.
4. "DNC+2", e.g. the DNC count plus Florida and Michigan.
5. "Electoral": the DNC count plus Florida and Michigan, but less Puerto Rico. I figure this is worth reporting because a change in the popular vote lead could lose some of its legitimacy if it was buoyed by huge margins in Puerto Rico. Clinton's entire argument for counting Florida and Michigan boils down to their importance in the electoral college -- but Puerto Rico contains zero electoral votes. That is not to say that there aren't some legitimate arguments for including Puerto Rico -- but there is some tension there.
These are really just a fraction of the considerable number of versions of the popular vote. By my count, you can come up with at least 16 different permutations of the popular vote around several different nodes:
- Don't include Florida or Michigan; include Florida but not Michigan; include Florida and Michigan, but allocate Michigan's 'uncommitted' vote; include Florida and Michigan as-is.
- Allocate the results from caucus states that don't release popular vote totals, or ignore them.
- Include territories, or don't include territories.
...and that is before certain of the more exotic versions, such as (double) counting the results of the Texas caucus, counting or double counting the results of the Washington primary, or ignoring caucuses entirely. If you include those permutations, there are at least 40 different versions of the popular vote!
But the ones I have listed are likely to have the most traction, and I would pay particular attention to two of them:
DNC +1: e.g. plus Florida. This is the count that Clinton surrogates like Terry McAuliffe seem to be targeting. And it is the first count that will begin to be taken seriously by the superdelegates. Nobody but nobody, or at least not the solid majority of superdelegates that Clinton would need to overturn Obama's substantial pledged delegate advantage, is going to give her credit for the uncontested primary in Michigan, or agree to ignore caucus states entirely. But if Clinton wins the DNC +1 count, she might get a hearing at the convention.
DNC/Best Obama: However, in order to have a reasonable chance of winning that hearing, Clinton probably needs to beat Obama on one of his best counts. Imagine if Obama had a substantial lead in pledged delegates, and he led some (though not all) of the more credible versions of the popular vote count. Obama and his supporters would have the moral highground in arguing that the will of the electorate had been overturned. And to overturn it, the Democrats would be courting electoral disaster, because we wouldn't be comparing Obama's electability to Clinton's electability in the abstract, but Obama's electability to Clinton's electability less the support of some undetermined number of angry Obama supporters who did not regard her nomination as legitimate. For Clinton's nomination to have any pretense of legitimacy, she would have to beat Obama on all or almost all versions of the popular vote total.
How much ground does Clinton need to make up to win these popular vote totals? That information is buried in the column labeled 'gain needed'. What those numbers mean is as follows:
- For Clinton to win the DNC +1 popular vote count -- the one with Florida included -- she will have to improve her poll standing in the remaining states by 5.5 points relative to where they stand now. So that would mean winning Indiana by about 10 points, losing North Carolina by single-digits, winning Puerto Rico by about 20 points, and so forth.
- For Clinton win win the "Best Obama" popular vote count, she will need to improve her poll standing in the remaining states by 12.2 points relative to where they stand now. So that would mean winning Indiana by mid double-digits, barely losing North Carolina, barely winning Oregon and South Dakota, and so on. In other words, she would have to battle North Carolina to a draw and run the table everywhere else, including some impressive-sized victory margins.
Winning the various pledged delegate counts is even further out there for Clinton. One significant and underreported development is that virtually all of Michigan's "uncommitted" delegates have in fact committed themselves to Barack Obama. The upshot of this is as follows: Michigan and Florida are now completely irrelevant from the standpoint of the pledged delegate count. Obama will lead the pledged delegate count even with the entire Michigan and Florida delegations seated -- unless Clinton improves her current poll standing by at least 23.3 points. The only importance of Florida and Michigan any longer is as talking points with respect to the various popular vote arguments that Clinton would like to make. For that matter, it might well be in Obama's best interest to agree to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations, if it allowed him to claim the moral highground on the popular vote arguments.
So where does that leave us? Below is my assessment of each Democrat's chances of winning the nomination based on various levels of improvement in Clinton's standing in the polls. Note that this is a prediction about what would happen, rather than a prescription about what should happen.
There are several lines of demarcation here:
1. If Obama maintains the status quo, or improves his numbers at all, or loses fewer than 5-6 points from his current position, he will be the nominee almost without question, as Clinton will not win even the Florida/McAuliffe version of the popular vote count. This is ignoring the small, residual possibility of an unexpected scandal or tragic event befalling Barack Obama.
2. If Clinton wins the Florida/McAullife count, she may succeed in taking the nomination battle to the convention floor. However, her chances of actually winning that floor fight remain rather low until...
3. Clinton wins the Best Obama popular vote count. At this point, I would guess that she was as likely as Obama to be given the nomination. I would also guess that there was a relatively substantial chance of Al Gore (or some other alternative like John Edwards) winning the nomination, as such a convention would almost certainly be brokered, with both candidates being able to make some strong claims toward legitimacy.
4. From this point onward, Obama's chances of winning the nomination continue to fall -- and Clinton's continue to rise -- rather precipitously. The reason is not that I expect the popular vote argument to trump the pledged delegate argument in the abstract, but how we get from here to there. If Obama lost 20 points off his current standing in the polls, he would still emerge with a material lead in pledged delegates, even with Florida and Michigan seated. However, he would also have lost 20 points in the polls -- and something would have had to have caused that. Put differently -- Obama will run out of electability real estate long before he runs out of pledged delegate real estate (but after he runs out of popular vote real estate).
If that 'something' were perceived to be Hillary Clinton herself, then again it might be Al Gore who emerged with the nomination. There is a tangible and increasing possibility of the NASCAR pile-up scenario: Clinton succeeds in making Obama unelectable, but in doing so, she so damages her own electability, or so turns off large segments of the Democratic base, that the Democrats have little choice but to cut their losses and nominate a 'unity' candidate like Gore.
Bear in mind that most of these scenarios are at the far reaches of the universe of the possible. I would put Obama's chances of winning the nomination at about 85%, Clinton's at about 10%, and Al Gore's at 5%.
4.23.2008
Math for Donkeys
by Nate Silver @ 6:15 PM...see also popular vote, primaries, puerto rico
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43 comments
Very interesting read.
I have one question: what's the probability (given the error in current polls - just like you calculate for the GE electoral math) that Clinton gets a +6 bump (from solely random error in the polling)?
Michael,
I don't know for certain, because polls are much less accurate in primaries than they are in general elections. Going by gut-feel, I think Clinton has a 25-30% chance of achieving that 6 percent bump.
Where are you getting WV polls from? I haven't seen Obama break 30% there in any poll there - Rasmussen is the only recent poll that I know of there and it has Clinton up by 28%. Also Kentucky is a closed primary, but there seem to be lots of registered Democrats there even though lots of them voted for Bush twice. So I think this model very significantly underestimates turnout there. Finally, what are the PR numbers based on?
While I agree with your comment regarding no one being willing to count MI the facts in MI are tha Obama had his supporters campaign for at least two weeks before the vote telling everyone to vote "uncommited" while the Clinton campaign held to its promise and did nothing. Obama supporters got 35% of the vote with Clinton not campaigning.
This makes a very good case as to why they should count MI. A second reson is that Obama needs the state to win in Novemeber and his statements today about MI & FL not counting were just dumb.
Crap, I was counting an April *2007* poll in WV that I thought was from 2008. Let me fix.
I'm looking on the site for your estimation of any "caucus effect"... how does it affect these upcoming contests?
Anon,
Without wanting to get too partisan here, I would point out that:
1. Obama did not run any advertising or have any field ops in Michigan.
2. Obama has gained about 10 points in the polls in virtually every single state where he has had an active ground game.
3. Turnout in Michigan was not remotely normal -- about 30% of the electorate, when typical open primaries are in the 80-90% range.
4. The only people who 'campaigned' on behalf of uncommitted in Michigan were in-state supporters like John Conyers; there was nobody brought in from out of state.
5. The demographics of Michigan are much more favorable to Obama than they might be somewhere like Pennsylvania. The black population is about 50% higher, which alone is worth about 6-8 points, plus the state is younger than somewhere like Pennsylvania, and has more progressive elements. The demos are probably as similar to Wisconsin as they are to Ohio or PA, but with a larger black vote.
7. A post-facto Rasmussen poll released in Michigan a few weeks ago had the candidates dead-even.
8. Obama has raised more funds in Michigan than Clinton, which represents a certain level of grass-roots support.
Obama recently won almost all of Michigan's "uncommitted" delegates. He arguably should have consented to letting Michigan vote again, as he probably had a better than even chance of winning, but the follow-the-rules argument is strong. Not punishing Michigan and Florida for breaking the rules would be a slap in the face to the 48 states that did.
As is, the Michigan vote is hopelessly compromised...the only people that assert that they should be counted is the Clinton camp. Superdelegates are not going to consider Michigan's popular vote when making decisions.
Poblano,
this post is great. You are by far the most interesting and creative analyst I have found on this race.
Poblano,
Great post. Your site has become the go-to place for math/stat analysis of the election.
I'd just add that there is another metric which will likely come into play if this thing goes on past May 7th, and that is national poll standings. Many of the primaries took place over two months ago -- eons in terms of political cycles. National polls may thus be a better guide to the current sense of the Democratic rank-and-file. I expect that if the signal here is strong (i.e. if Obama maintains a beyond confidence range standing or if Clinton reverse that) it will become a major talking point in superdelegate conversations. Put another way, in order to have a good chance at a brokered convention, Hillary must both win a credible metric of popular vote and take over the lead in the polls.
It's also possible that vs. McCain electablity polls will become important (ideally based on this site or similar EC analysis, more likely based on national averages) but for now they are too close for that to matter.
One final point, your odds of 85 Obama/10 Hillary/5 Gore are remarkably close to the Intrade market currently at 81/16/4. Note that the Gore contract has more than doubled in the last month.
Marc,
I've heard this point more frequently in recent days and it's one I agreed with. It's really hard Clinton for argue that she has some sort of mandate that should override the delegate count if she trails by 6 or 8 or 10 points in the national polls.
For the anon count MI advocate
Since your assumption is that since neither FL nor MI count for the Dems there is no way they will vote Dem in the GE
Do you also assume that the GOP primaries and cauceses that were penalized with half their vote will only get half the GOP support in November?
For those keeping track that would be MI, NV, WY, SC, and FL
So I guess Obama will win Wyoming, Nevada and South Carolina while losing Florida and Michigan.
In your scenario, comes much closer to the GE
I think any surprise candidate other than Clinton or Obama (Gore, Edwards, what have you) is a recipe for automatic GE failure. It's too undemocratic, and would be a terrible precedent to set for all of the "new" voters.
But I absolutely agree that superdelegates are already following the national Clinton v. Obama numbers (which Obama has done beter for some time) and the national matchups vs. McCain, which Obama has had the edge in for some time.
On Hillary and negative attacks...in the days heading into Pennsylvania, she pretty much exhausted her negative issues against Obama. They're all out there now. The best thing Obama can do now is not give her anything new. He is wise to reject anymore debates. Debates are a theatrical farce anyways, and 21 is more than enough. I would advise him going forward to not fall into the trap of joining Hillary in the negative game. It's hard to just ignore her when she makes negative comments, but that's actually exactly exactly what he needs to do now. Negativity will go over less well in Indiana than in Pennsylvania...he'll really help himself by taking the high road in the next 14 days.
It's the "politics of hope" candidate that superdelegates fell in love with in February. That's the candidate he needs to re-become. If he does, the nomination is his, and Hillary spontaneously combusts. If he joins her in the gutter, he'll get burned too.
Outstanding, poblano. I was hoping for a breakdown of these hypotheticals.
Obama supporters: Every time Clinton supporters assert it's fair to count Michigan, direct them to Clinton saying Michigan "will not count for anything": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg
Florida should not count either, obviously, because the voters were told it would not count, Obama was not allowed to campaign and that drove down turnout.
Obama gains a lot of ground everywhere he campaigns. In order to even win the DNC+1 count, Clinton is not only going to have to stop that trend - she'll have to turn it completely on its head. Not happening.
vosh:If only it mattered. Clinton supporters don't care about Hillary's hypocrisy and duplicity. If they did, they wouldn't be Clinton supporters anymore.
Terry McAuliffe was on CNN earlier claiming that the Obama camp went totally negative in the days before Pennsylvania voted, and that Hillary didn't, even in response. And Hillary's supporters will tell you that that's the truth.
Fortunately, media venues like the New York Times, and more importantly, the vast majority of superdelegates are having none of it.
My own projection, not based on a model but pure guesses, is very similar to what you model predicted. I disagree with a few of your projections:
Here're the states where we differ
Oregon-I peg the turnout at 70% vs. just 55% according to your model.Ithink because of their singular voting process and usually they turnout in great numbers, their turnout will be about 70% of the Kerry's total-so,660,000
Kentucky: 65% of Kerry's total may tunout-I used Oklahoma's turnout as precedent and I got 463,000
South Dakota: I put it at about 59.7% of kery's total-89,000
All the other states, my guesses are in agreement with your model.
Winning and losing margins:my prediction for now
NC:-17%
IN:-6%
WV:+18%
KY:+20%
OR:-14%
MT:-18%
SD:-15%
Puerto Rico:+15%
Total net Clinton Votes:-154,000
Basically, She only get +67,000 votes with PA included(without PA she will lose -154,000 votes). So, she has no way of catching up with Obama on the popular vote barring a major scandal
Unfortunately, I think you underestimate KY and WV. Obama might make a small dent with campaigning, but the demographics are such that Obama will be lucky to get much closer than a 25-30 point margin.
My guesses:
NC: -22%
IN: -07%
WV: +23%
KY: +28%
OR: -17%
MT: -14%
SD: -11%
PR: +25%
Total Clinton Votes: -187,000
I think your margin of victory for Clinton in WV and KY would be that high only if all the contests were held on the same day. Although momentum hasn't counted too much this cycle, you have to believe that if Obama wins both NC and IN(as we predicted) her margin would not go higher than 20%. And remember, She only win two states so far with a 20+ margin.
Oops...that -187,000 should be a +87,000.
If Obama wins Indiana (and North Carolina), I'm not sure that there will be a Kentucky primary. But -- yeah, the states are a mess for him. There were three or four counties in Tennessee where Obama lost to *John Edwards*.
I love this site!
Michael Barone and others gave me my introduction to political geography with the Almanac of American Politics, which I have read and mostly admired every two years in the last three decades. But, he has since turned hard right. I believe he is the one who has started the ball rolling with a pseudo-serious analysis of the "popular vote" this season.
My two big objections: 1) So What? 2) How about a "Best Obama" scenario that takes the percentage delegate wins in caucus states and multiplies them by a factor to correct for typical primary turnout? In other words, why continue to ignore the overwhelming and perverse effect of disregarding the popular support in states with a long tradition, blessed by party rules, of using caucuses?
I can't think of a defeat margin in North Carolina and Indiana big enough to make Clinton pass up the massacre that Kentucky and West Virginia promise to be.
There will be a Kentucky and West Virginia primary.
I suspect she's convention bound in just about any scenario, and they'll have to drag her out kicking and screaming if she doesn't win the nomination.
But you can get a clue of the disaster that awaits Obama in those states by looking at the margins in the counties in far western Virginia and southeastern Ohio.
Even the western tip of North Carolina will be embarassing for Obama, but he'll more than make it up in the rest of the state.
What about the fact that people residing in Puerto Rico and Guam have ZERO votes in the Electoral College?
Why aren't we counting the "votes" from France and Germany?
You are the man. Really. I even assign your posts to my research methods class.
"Nobody but nobody ... is going to give her credit for the uncontested primary in Michigan"
That's perfectly sound coming from a blogger, but when it's coming from a numbers guy talking about what the probabilities say, the statement is a bit too categorical. It makes the reader a bit skeptical of the numbers.
Michael Barone is still arguing that Hillary has a chance that doesn't require an earth shaking move in the polls.
Hillary supposedly signed this DNC pledge last year-- it makes her look like a pretty big hypocrite for making the argument that Florida and Michigan should be included as part of the popular vote count. (Something that I heard McAuliffe try and argue today.)
Here is the important part:
THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge
I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by
rules and regulations of the DNC.
It's a pretty simple argument-- Hillary agreed to the rules beforehand in writing and now says they don't apply. She didn't agree to a popular vote contest or a Biggest States Won contest. She agreed to the system we have and is trying to change the rules mid-game.
brian dell: Barone was off by 155,000 votes in PA. His projections, even from his admitted standpoint of being optimistic for Clinton, are completely delusional and yet another prime example of the establishment media's intellectual bankruptcy. "Journalists" like Barone are the past; Bloggers poblano are the future.
For anyone in need of a good laugh, here are Barone's other predictions:
IN +20% for Clinton
NC -10%
WV +40%
KT +30%
OR -10%
PR +30%
MT +20%
SD +20%
He also predicted +20% for Clinton in PA. The only reason he wasn't off by 200,000+ votes is that turnout exceeded even optimistic expectations. His NC through OR predictions are semi-plausible, but the rest are certifiable.
I don't understand why folks think that Indiana is a good state for Obama. Other than the northwest part being in the Chicago media market, I can't think of any reason that the state would be particularly good for him.
Poblano, what saith your model?
Ikl:
I don't think people will say that Indiana is 'prime' Obama territory, but it's the last state left where the demographics are relatively even between the candidates.
For example you can consider the percentage of residents over 65 (2006 census)
Indiana - 12.4%
Ohio - 13.3%
Penn - 15.2%
That's quite a big shift in the population demographic and makes the state actually contestable.
The other demographic that favours Obama is that the rural vote in Indiana is smaller than Ohio and Pennsylvania. A large proportion of the vote will come from Indianapolis and the industrial Gary.
Obama is likely to be strong in both places. In the former because he generally does well in the cities, and in the latter because that region is covered by the Chicago media market.
By contrast however Hillary has the advantage of the bigger Democratic endorsements which will provide organisations.
We can also look at the African-American demographic which tends to break for Obama.
Indiana - 8.9%
Ohio - 12.0%
Penn - 10.7%
So basically the 'core' support of both candidates is a lesser influence in this state and so both have a good chance of getting a victory.
The popular vote count that includes caucus estimates should include the Texas caucuses. Approximately 1.1 million people spent hours voting in those caucuses because they were told their votes would count. That's as many people as voted in the entire "big state" of New Jersey. Good luck telling them their votes count for nothing -- it just won't fly.
I think the best way to deal with popular vote in combined caucus-primary states is a weighted average based on the DNC weights (aka delegates).
So for Washington, we would have:
1 vote =
(0/78) * Primary vote +
(78/78) * Caucus vote
For Texas:
1 vote =
(126/193) * Primary vote +
(67/193) * Caucus vote
This is consistent with how the voters were told their votes would count, which makes it the most reasonable way to estimate popular vote. We just need to make people aware of it.
Poblano,
have you done any analysis of "caucus effects", compared to either pre-caucus poll numbers or the demographic profiles of voters in similar primary states?
Turnout behavior and expectations differed dramatically between caucus and primary states - so "popular" vote arguments may be apples-and-oranges comparisons.
"What about the fact that people residing in Puerto Rico and Guam have ZERO votes in the Electoral College? Why aren't we counting the "votes" from France and Germany?"
Puerto Ricans and Guamians(?) are US citizens; French and Germans are not. The US President is their head of state; he or she is not for Germans and French.
In your turnout model, do you include a variable as to whether or not the Republican race has been decided? This should be a big factor.
You could, for example, use a measure for the competitiveness of the Republican nomination, as measured by the entropy of the distribution of delegates among remaining candidates.
I suspect you will find that you have in general underestimated turnout.
'Why aren't we counting the "votes" from France and Germany?'
Actually -- we are. US citizens, registered Democratic, living in France or Germany, voted in the "Democrats Abroad" primary. Obama won.
Subject: In just 16 Months
Part 1
In just 16 months.. Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following:
A little over 16 MONTHS ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work
with what's handed to him.
Quote of the Day........"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to
change it."
-- Barack Obama
Part 2:
Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics
enlightening and amazing.
www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html
Taxes under Clinton 1999
Taxes under Clinton 1999-:Single making 30K - tax $8,400. Taxes under Bush 2008:Single making 30K -tax $4,500.
Taxes under Clinton 1999-Single making 50K - tax $14,000. Taxes under Bush 2008: Single making 50K - tax $12,500.
Taxes under Clinton 1999- Single making 75K - tax $23,250. Taxes under Bush 2008: Single making 75K - tax $18,750.
Taxes under Clinton 1999-Married making 60K - tax $16,800. Taxes under Bush 2008: Married making 60K- tax $9,000.
Taxes under Clinton 1999-Married making 75K - tax $21,000. Taxes under Bush 2008: Married making 75K - tax $18,750.
Taxes under Clinton 1999-Married making 125K - tax $38,750. Taxes under Bush 2008: Married making 125K - tax $31,250.
Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates.
It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever.
If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even
know what happened.
PART 3:
You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:
Boy, am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.
I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them.
I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77 http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal
aliens.
Verify at:
http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4.$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary
School education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused
by the illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's
two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,
their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens
that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report:
http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
Verify at:
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to
their countries of origin.
Verify at:
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex
Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ."
Verify at:
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
Are we THAT stupid?
If this doesn't bother you then just ignore this message. If, on the other hand, it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you forward it to every legal resident in the country including every representative in Washington , D.C. - five times a week for as long as it takes to restore some semblance of intelligence in our policies and
enforcement thereof.
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